Another cyclist dies in London
- Thread starter Hackney Andy
- Start date
Sorry to hear, but enough is enough and something seriously needs to be done urgently.
We all need to strike for the cause of safety.
MS.
This is terrible. 2013 has been very odd, until only weeks ago the deaths were well down on previous years, which in turn had been reducing, but suddenly in just two weeks the total has caught up to return to a few years back.
I don't understand why, there hasn't been any sudden drastic change in conditions or numbers of cyclists/HGVs/Buses in the last two weeks, it's baffling. Don't those involved watch TV news, read newspapers or go online and thus be forewarned?
The only thought that springs to mind is to study lemming behaviour to learn more about the cause.
I don't understand why, there hasn't been any sudden drastic change in conditions or numbers of cyclists/HGVs/Buses in the last two weeks, it's baffling. Don't those involved watch TV news, read newspapers or go online and thus be forewarned?
The only thought that springs to mind is to study lemming behaviour to learn more about the cause.
I know it's all too easy to blame the cyclists but when did we give up the right to safety.
A few weeks back I got a pull for cycling on the pavement adjacent to a local brewery where huge wagons were reversing in and out, he pulled up in a car, blocking the lane, specifically to target me, he was wearing a high vis. jacket with POLICE emblazoned across the back.
He claimed that he rode a bike and felt quite safe on the road, I pointed out that we all would if we could wear similar jackets but he was unimpressed with my logic and threatened me with a fine next time.
A few weeks back I got a pull for cycling on the pavement adjacent to a local brewery where huge wagons were reversing in and out, he pulled up in a car, blocking the lane, specifically to target me, he was wearing a high vis. jacket with POLICE emblazoned across the back.
He claimed that he rode a bike and felt quite safe on the road, I pointed out that we all would if we could wear similar jackets but he was unimpressed with my logic and threatened me with a fine next time.
Obviously police ignorance about the facts of cycling law Mike, perhaps not surprising since it's 13 years since the original Home Office guidance was issue to chief police officers. In addition London doesn't have such, a Police Commissioner instead, and he's been changed at least three times in that period and the current incumbent now has to answer to the mayor who has also changed in that time. So it's probable that neither the mayor nor the commissioner know the facts.
Sadly though, I still have to say these cyclists could have avoided the accidents. That's not saying it was their fault, just saying they could have had control. Hackney Andy whose thread this is I believe commutes in London, I also ride regularly in London as do many of us. We know the dangers and have close scrapes, but we also know how to avoid the consequences so we are still here. Most and possibly all of those six cyclists could also still be with us, that's the real tragedy.
Sadly though, I still have to say these cyclists could have avoided the accidents. That's not saying it was their fault, just saying they could have had control. Hackney Andy whose thread this is I believe commutes in London, I also ride regularly in London as do many of us. We know the dangers and have close scrapes, but we also know how to avoid the consequences so we are still here. Most and possibly all of those six cyclists could also still be with us, that's the real tragedy.
I know cycling on the footpath is technically illegal & I carry a couple of copies of the open letter issued by the dft that Flecc brought to our notice some time back.
Basically, it confirms that bobbies & pcso's should not issue fixed penalties to cyclists using the footpath,with due
regard for pedestrians, when there's reasonable cause.
I'm sure Flecc will remember the link.
Basically, it confirms that bobbies & pcso's should not issue fixed penalties to cyclists using the footpath,with due
regard for pedestrians, when there's reasonable cause.
I'm sure Flecc will remember the link.
Yea, that's true but there is just too much traffic much of it driving far too aggressively, racing to get through the next green light before it changes, overtaking when it's not necessary.
We can all tell of drivers overtaking and turning left a yard in front of us, absolutely pointless.
...I guarantee that if you drive at the legal limit, on any road in the country, if it's safe to overtake, and often if it isn't, the guy behind you will overtake.
Just my opinion but I feel that overtaking is one of the most dangerous manouvers so why do it unnecessarily.
We can all tell of drivers overtaking and turning left a yard in front of us, absolutely pointless.
...I guarantee that if you drive at the legal limit, on any road in the country, if it's safe to overtake, and often if it isn't, the guy behind you will overtake.
Just my opinion but I feel that overtaking is one of the most dangerous manouvers so why do it unnecessarily.
....Yes...
I have a copy myself but you either pay the £30 fine or risk going into court with "Flecc's" letter and maybe being stung for £200No magistrate is going to side with a cyclist against a copper, the cop is just gonna say,
...." there were people about...it were dangerous"
I think the photo says it all. Applies to many many places in York
Sixth London cyclist killed in less than two weeks as man dies in lorry incident | UK news | theguardian.com
Sixth London cyclist killed in less than two weeks as man dies in lorry incident | UK news | theguardian.com
£30 is cheaper than a comfortable body bag.....Yes...
No magistrate is going to side with a cyclist against a copper, the cop is just gonna say,
...." there were people about...it were dangerous"
I'll repeat the full details here John:
On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:
"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."
Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.
"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.
I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)
Not keen on reports on roads I have recently cycled. I know the junction well and can't think of any unusual features or dangers.
I also have to admit I have a handful of responses to police for if ever I'm stopped, one I have had to explain was pulling onto the pavement as a siren was approaching and it is much safer and less obstruction for the emergency services to pass.
I also have to admit I have a handful of responses to police for if ever I'm stopped, one I have had to explain was pulling onto the pavement as a siren was approaching and it is much safer and less obstruction for the emergency services to pass.
The letter Flecc refers to is often quoted, but seems very difficult to actually find online. There is however another letter that Paul Boateng wrote to Ben Bradshaw, which contains much the same information. I wouldn't describe it as an implorement (is there such a word
) to Police and PCSO's not to issue FPNs though
The sites that had it originally have taken it down, and i strongly suspect due to an official attempt to back down from the original Home Office instructions. We seem to be in an age where the UK government wants to rigidly control every aspect of our lives, not tolerating any flexibility.The letter Flecc refers to is often quoted, but seems very difficult to actually find online. There is however another letter that Paul Boateng wrote to Ben Bradshaw, which contains much the same information. I wouldn't describe it as an implorement (is there such a word
As far as I am concerned they can go to hell with such intentions and I will disrupt them at every opportunity. For that reason I persist in reposting the originals as I did above on this link
They might not like it, but it is the spirit of any law passed which the highest courts interpret and use, and the original letters show that spirit very clearly.
Having just seen this on the BBC news i notice that it was once again a tipper truck. The drivers of these trucks behave like maniacs on the road, determined to get their drops done no matter what the risk to other road users. I have had incidents with them myself.
Having watched the TV at the incident, maniacal driving wasn't the issue here though, It was a very tight right angle corner where high speed was out of the question, and the truck had stopped instantly on the corner apex so could not have been travelling fast.
There's moves now to ban all HGVs during the day as they have in Paris for similar reasons. However, Paris is a small city compared to London and I understand the Paris ban is widely flouted anyway. In addition, some of the "heavies" have been buses, and they can't be banned of course.
Maybe a rush hour HGV ban would be an effective compromise since most deaths have been of commuters.
Meanwhile though, I wish cyclists would stop cycling alongside the left of trucks on junction entries, it just isn't necessary. I get around London ok without doing it, but often have idiots squeezing past me at the rear of trucks to do it.
Saving two seconds in exchange for possibly losing one's life doesn't seem a sensible deal to me.
.
There's moves now to ban all HGVs during the day as they have in Paris for similar reasons. However, Paris is a small city compared to London and I understand the Paris ban is widely flouted anyway. In addition, some of the "heavies" have been buses, and they can't be banned of course.
Maybe a rush hour HGV ban would be an effective compromise since most deaths have been of commuters.
Meanwhile though, I wish cyclists would stop cycling alongside the left of trucks on junction entries, it just isn't necessary. I get around London ok without doing it, but often have idiots squeezing past me at the rear of trucks to do it.
Saving two seconds in exchange for possibly losing one's life doesn't seem a sensible deal to me.
.
Quite agree Flecc - I was just trying to find an example of the original letter, and was unable to
There are an amazing number of blogs regarding cycling and the law, many written by lawyers of one sort or another, once you start to look.
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