Am I being ripped off?

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
Hi all,

I contacted a shop regarding my controller and was told it would cost £110 to check the bike and fix if simple, but I was advised it could cost significantly more if I need a new controller etc. The issue is definitely with the phase wires, either a chip in the wire or the poorly made connectors.

Please could you advise my best course of action?

Thanks in advance
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH
Are you any good at soldering ?
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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With diy or hub motor bikes it pays to be able to do the work your self.
Soldering skills are a must and one can pick them up through practice quite easily.
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
With diy or hub motor bikes it pays to be able to do the work your self.
Soldering skills are a must and one can pick them up through practice quite easily.
Yes, I agree with you. I know the yellow phase wire has some wire exposed and poor connectors, and I've just found another wire with a slight exposure too...could be the throttle. I'd need to watch some videos but will shop around first.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,981
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If the phases are getting that hot and melting, then there is a bottle neck of current at the joint, it also may be down to the riding style/speed one rides at or the topography.

It may be simply the controller and time to replace it, does it feel like a hot potato at times ?
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
If the phases are getting that hot and melting, then there is a bottle neck of current at the joint, it also may be down to the riding style/speed one rides at or the topography.

It may be simply the controller and time to replace it, does it feel like a hot potato at times ?
The controller doesn't feel hot - it's underneath the bike so I've never checked when it has cut out.

The shop mentioned that it could be the circuit board or a dead short. Is this consistent with your view?

The last time I checked the connectors they didn't fit right, especially the yellow wire. I think they need changing. Would MT60 be any good for this?
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Soldering isn't as easy at it looks in Youtube videos. I learned to solder things like thick battery cables and connection plugs for sound eventually - key is having the right equipment and materials, which doesn't have to be expensive.

In the end I discovered that high lead content solder, non-acid flux, and a cheap 100W Silverline soldering iron is sufficient for most of my little soldering jobs.

In fact, once I got the hang of it, I got a bit carried away and kept soldering - I soldered various leads in a few configurations for my in-shed sound system, which I didn't actually need.

I'm about attempt a repair of the spout of my stainless steel kettle, which has a hole. Saves it becoming landfill. I've got some lead-free solder, but I believe I need an acid flux. I may also require a blowtorch...
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
Soldering isn't as easy at it looks in Youtube videos. I learned to solder things like thick battery cables and connection plugs for sound eventually - key is having the right equipment and materials, which doesn't have to be expensive.

In the end I discovered that high lead content solder, non-acid flux, and a cheap 100W Silverline soldering iron is sufficient for most of my little soldering jobs.

In fact, once I got the hang of it, I got a bit carried away and kept soldering - I soldered various leads in a few configurations for my in-shed sound system, which I didn't actually need.

I'm about attempt a repair of the spout of my stainless steel kettle, which has a hole. Saves it becoming landfill. I've got some lead-free solder, but I believe I need an acid flux. I may also need a blowtorch...
Yes, I have an injured arm so won't attempt it - I'm looking at shop options
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
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Beds & Norfolk
Maybe I missed something in this thread, but I'm curious as the OP didn't say...

Is this yet another example of a 2000w DD motor drawing 400amps of current climbing a 1 in 1 hill? And it's melting the wiring? And we're surprised?

What is it you're using?
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,531
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1 in 1 hill
:eek: Those are everywhere in North Wales, proper hills... When I moved away, I was puzzled by my new neighbours referring to slight inclines as "Hills", and now I do the same.

 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
Ex
Maybe I missed something in this thread, but I'm curious as the OP didn't say...

Is this yet another example of a 2000w DD motor drawing 400amps of current climbing a 1 in 1 hill? And it's melting the wiring? And we're surprised?

What is it you're using?
I wasn't climbing any hills, so not sure who you're referring to.
 

slowcoach

Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2020
174
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It is a long time ago since I did any soldering and that was in the days of "real" solder with a lead content. The best flux to use, after careful cleaning of the parts to be soldered, was tallow.
But, of course, things move on.
Any odd soldering I need to do these days, I do with some of the solder I have in stock from those days.
 
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StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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Standard cored leaded solder (flux is in the cores) is all I have used in the last 50 years or so of soldering wires and electric stuff, there is no need for additional flux.

The exception for not needing additional flux is the thin no-clean flux which is useful for soldering surface mount components and very useful when using solder wick to remove solder from circuit boards etc.

Its legal to use leaded solder for DIY stuff, but its been banned in commercial products for a good few years.
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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The best flux to use, after careful cleaning of the parts to be soldered, was tallow.
Having never heard of tallow flux, I did a quick search - it was used to solder lead for stained glass windows?

Barely recalled memories of metalwork class feature a white dust flux for mild steel, also a flux paste.

To repair my stainless steel kettle spout, I'm going to try this silver solder kit:

 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Standard cored leaded solder (flux is in the cores) is all I have used in the last 50 years or so of soldering wires and electric stuff, there is no need for additional flux.
Does it depend on the quality of the soldering iron used? I recall you have several. A cheap "60W" £12 ebay kit was utterly useless, didn't maintain a consistent temperature, tips were too tiny and underpowered for soldering thick battery power cables. Every soldering task I attempted with that ended in disaster, even the small ones - but this cheapo 100W Silverline is very effective. Very hot, mostly no flux required - I still use flux when soldering thick cables, for reasurringly good flow and solid strong connection. Weirdly, it's big chisel tip also works well when soldering connectors for sound equipment. Not at all bad for about a tenner from my local struggling hardware shop.


If that hadn't been of use, I would have bought a Weller soldering gun. Or Silverline's cheapo copy of it.

 
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StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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The ‘quality’ of the iron does not matter that much, but very important is the type of bit, real cheap irons have copper bits, which last only a few minutes and are not very good. Soldering iron bits really need to be of the iron coated type, as used by most of the Weller and Antex irons.

As for Weller ions there is no doubt these are one of the best. Back in the days when I was in electronics design and manufacturing (amusement machines, BBC Micro etc) Weller irons were the only ones used by everyone repairing and building stuff. The temperature was controlled by the actual bit fitted with a magnet arrangement so you could be sure that everyone was using the correct temperature for the type of cored solder in use.

For years I had an Antex TCS50 type solder station which were in the £200+ region. Problem here was not the cost of the iron but the bits. With surface mount parts more widespread, you end up using needle point bits which are not iron coated so they don’t last long.

The Yihua irons I mentioned before are not of Antex or Weller quality, but they are OK to use and of course a lot lot cheaper. There is a large variety of good quality bits available, including the needle point copper ones that are very cheap.

I have two irons on my desk these days, a Yihua 937D 45W and a Yihua 926 60W, both are temperature controlled ones. I see no need to use a more expensive ‘quality’ brand.

The 937D has a needle point copper bit fitted for surface mount work. The 926 iron has a much larger pointed iron coated bit fitted for more general work. So I switch on whichever iron I need. If I need a larger chisel bit, say for soldering XT60 connectors, one of the irons should be cold, so I can quickly swap bits.

I have had a Yihua solder station fail, but at £35 its not a big loss.

A little tub of solder paste tip cleaner is essential, in particular if the iron is on a high temperature as black gunge builds up on the tip of the bit and solder wont melt no more.

I also have a couple of those large cheap irons you get on eBay, 100W and 250W I think, for heavy duty soldering, but I don’t often use them. A 100w soldering gun somewhere too.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,531
3,277
The ‘quality’ of the iron does not matter that much, but very important is the type of bit, real cheap irons have copper bits, which last only a few minutes and are not very good. Soldering iron bits really need to be of the iron coated type, as used by most of the Weller and Antex irons.

As for Weller ions there is no doubt these are one of the best. Back in the days when I was in electronics design and manufacturing (amusement machines, BBC Micro etc) Weller irons were the only ones used by everyone repairing and building stuff. The temperature was controlled by the actual bit fitted with a magnet arrangement so you could be sure that everyone was using the correct temperature for the type of cored solder in use.

For years I had an Antex TCS50 type solder station which were in the £200+ region. Problem here was not the cost of the iron but the bits. With surface mount parts more widespread, you end up using needle point bits which are not iron coated so they don’t last long.

The Yihua irons I mentioned before are not of Antex or Weller quality, but they are OK to use and of course a lot lot cheaper. There is a large variety of good quality bits available, including the needle point copper ones that are very cheap.

I have two irons on my desk these days, a Yihua 937D 45W and a Yihua 926 60W, both are temperature controlled ones. I see no need to use a more expensive ‘quality’ brand.

The 937D has a needle point copper bit fitted for surface mount work. The 926 iron has a much larger pointed iron coated bit fitted for more general work. So I switch on whichever iron I need. If I need a larger chisel bit, say for soldering XT60 connectors, one of the irons should be cold, so I can quickly swap bits.

I have had a Yihua solder station fail, but at £35 its not a big loss.

A little tub of solder paste tip cleaner is essential, in particular if the iron is on a high temperature as black gunge builds up on the tip of the bit and solder wont melt no more.

I also have a couple of those large cheap irons you get on eBay, 100W and 250W I think, for heavy duty soldering, but I don’t often use them. A 100w soldering gun somewhere too.
Thanks @StuartsProjects for typing all that out! I've bookmarked the Yihua soldering irons you mentioned, in case I ever actually need to attempt a Bafang controller repair - their boards are covered with a thick layer of grey silicone, which @soundwave mentioned can be easier removed after boiling in water. Someday, Bafang and others will stop making controllers for motors like the bbs01b, therefore I won't throw any away if they break, to attempt repair at some later date.
 
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