Agattu review (Flecc)

General question flecc to you, but other may find it interesting !

With the hill climbs you did with your Agattu review.

Have you also completed the same hill climbs with your Torq?

If so have did they compare?

Interested to know thats all.

Bob

PS I way shook awake last night and I stood up quickly, then the whole house judded suddenly from side to side.

I was so shocked I didnt get back to sleep til 3am.

PS I way shook awake last night and I stood up quickly, then the whole house judded suddenly from side to side.

I was so shocked I didnt get back to sleep til 3am.

England experienced an earthquake last night, 5.2 on the Richter scale.

See

Biggest earthquake since 1984 hits England - Yahoo! News UK

for story

BW

musicbooks

Hi Bob, sounds like that was a nasty shock.

The old Torq I couldn't climb the 1 in 5 bits at all. When I first tackled Titsey Hill, I put in a freshly charge battery at the foot of the hill and then charged at it. Fifteen seconds later both the bike and I cut out, the battery not standing it and nor could I without it's help!

Around 1 in 14 was always very hard work and only ok if fairly short. Long continuous moderate climbs would always provoke a Li-ion cut-out after about a mile of continuous climbing as the cells grew more chemically tired, so no chance it would do the much longer climbs I did with the Agattu.

After conversion to the T bike, all of those were possible, mostly easily, but the 1 in 5 hard work instead of impossible. The main differences in that were 10% more motor power, rider gears lowered (the low from 58" to 42"), much less rolling resistance, about two kilos weight reduction, NiMh 39.6 volt battery and some other lesser gains in efficiency.

The current Torq Trekking is a very different animal from the Torq I, not as fast but with more hill climb torque, better rider gearing and a change in the battery cut-out point, so none of the above applies to it. However, I've no idea of it's exact capabilities.

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P.S. I was up at the time and Surrey didn't move a millimetre, so the earthquake effect seems to have been fairly localised well to the north of me.

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Thanks flecc, great info as always.

Another question !

If you cloned yourself though (bear with me here Flecc)

You on the Agattu, and your clone on the Torq.

Who would fair the best you think?

Also I talked to 50cycles today and they said that the Pro-Connect in high mode with give me 30% assist. I though it was more than that !

They told me the Pro-Connect will be here for mid-March.

P.S. I was up at the time and Surrey didn't move a millimetre, so the earthquake effect seems to have been fairly localised well to the north of me.

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Not that localised as it was felt in my house in North London. Must have been quite scary at the epicenter.

Thanks flecc, great info as always.

Another question !

If you cloned yourself though (bear with me here Flecc)

You on the Agattu, and your clone on the Torq.

Who would fair the best you think?

 

Also I talked to 50cycles today and they said that the Pro-Connect in high mode with give me 30% assist. I though it was more than that !

They told me the Pro-Connect will be here for mid-March.

Horses for courses!

The old Torq would be faster in terms of average speed, probably about 6 mph faster over mixed territory if it was derestricted (illegal), and 3 mph if restricted. The current Torq Trekking would be like the restricted Torq I, about 3 mph faster average on a journey. In either case the Agattu would be far more proficient at hill climbing on the steep ones, albeit taking it's time.

The 30% quoted is a misunderstanding, it's 30% more than in the standard power assist mode. Percentages can be so misleading. The whole of the high power mode is 130% of the standard mode, but forms 57% of the total power when including the rider input. In other words, the rider is left to provide 43%, or quite a bit less than half.

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Not that localised as it was felt in my house in North London. Must have been quite scary at the epicenter.

Strange Hal.

I felt it the last time we had an earthquake, but I was on the computer sitting on a fairly hard chair at that time and didn't feel a thing right on the South London/Surrey border. I've got the big last rise of the North Downs just north of me, so perhaps that was enough of a barrier mass to absorb the last of it.

On the other hand, maybe the intensive cycling I've been doing of late has anaesthetised my backside against vibration.

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Yes that sounds more like it Flecc.

30% doesn't sound that much and I dont know why 50cycles would say this.

This video on utube sold me more to the pedelecs............

Its a great video. It really shows what pedelecs can do.

Do you know of this make of pedelec Frisbee?

If so how does it compare to the likes of the Agattu?

It looks powerful or is it the rider you think. He's over sixty it says !

PS I was 50 miles from the epicentre

Edited February 27, 200818 yr by burncycle

I don't know that make, but it's a bit of a tank in the old Powabyke mould, quite powerful and a good climber but heavy with lead acid batteries probably and not fast on the flat. The rider is quite powerful.

Climbing with the Agattu would be a far more easy going thing, no standing on the pedals and no stress, but as said, slower. The difference on a journey is small though. So strong club sporting riders may pass you, but they'll be sweating while you'll be relaxed and able to say "Good morning" with a smile.

You'll fly past most of the utility and mountain bike riders though.

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Good that reassuring!

The Pro-Connect is 6lbs lighter than the Agattu also !

Strange Hal.

 

I felt it the last time we had an earthquake, but I was on the computer sitting on a fairly hard chair at that time and didn't feel a thing right on the South London/Surrey border. I've got the big last rise of the North Downs just north of me, so perhaps that was enough of a barrier mass to absorb the last of it.

 

On the other hand, maybe the intensive cycling I've been doing of late has anaesthetised my backside against vibration.

.

Here in Aldershot I heard the bookcase moving and my bed shook noticeably (no jokes) and I sat up wondering who was shaking it. I thought one of the children was playing silly beggars. Then I thought I was having a stroke!

After a few seconds I realised what it was and it was quite scary.

Weird, seems to have gone round me. I posted here at 12.33 am and 1.36 am, and in between was doing some updating on the computer software and wasn't aware of anything at all.

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Weird, seems to have gone round me. I posted here at 12.33 am and 1.36 am, and in between was doing some updating on the computer software and wasn't aware of anything at all.

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Similarly I sat at the computer at that time and felt nothing whatever, although 10 miles away someone reports in the local paper that they were shaken quite violently.

What does this earthquake have to do with the Agattu review?

Both world shaking events?

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Agattu

Hi,

First post here and have been reading about Agattu with interest.

We live 4 miles from nearest shops and 15 miles from supermarket and work and it's all pretty hilly round here (Perthshire, Scotland). I've ridden to work a couple of times and enjoyed it, but the prevailing winds mean that it's often into the wind on the way back from work and that's a bit of a put off.

I'm thinking that an electric bike could reasonably replace one of our cars and many posts here seem to support that possibility.

I took a short test ride on a gazelle easy glider a couple of months ago and really liked the easy intuitive way the motor integrated with the bike. The extra push from standstill was quite surprising and I did find myself going up through the gears as if I'd become super fit. I've tended to dismiss the continental city bike style and was surprised at how comfortable and pleasant it can be. In short I could see how it could be a practical alternative to a second car.

I've just received an Xtracycle which i'm going to try on my mtb, and I've seen that some folk have fitted them to Giant lafree and found it a useful combination and it set me thinking that perhaps an Agattu with xtracycle could be a winner.

Fleccs' review said that the step through Agattu was a stiff framed bike. Would that be stiff enough for an Xtracycle or would a diamond frame version likely be better?

(As a 'boy' I of course prefer to have a cross bar, but with a little one to sit on the back now I can appreciate the benefits of a step through.)

The pro-connect certainly looks more immediately appealing to me, but I do like to ride on lanes and farm tracks around here and it looks as though the forks and slightly wider tyres of Agattu would be more practical in this respect.

And I'm not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, but aside from battery replacement and engine sprocket replacment what is the normal life expectancy of the Panasonic motor unit?

Thanks

Hi Andy

The step through Agattu would be stiff enough for the Xtracycle, as I've seen one last year fitted to a step through Lafree Twist which is rather flexible in comparison. There are a few other Lafree Xtracycles about, including one that's used for daily commuting into Los Angeles at quite high speed via an SRAM DualDrive hub/derailleur combination. One thing to bear in mind is that the Xtracycle is intended for use with derailleur gears and may not have a slotted frame for chain adjustment with a hub gear, so you may need to add a spring loaded jockey pulley, readily available.

And of course with a child seat the step through is far more practical. For rough tracks the Agattu strength and suspension is definitely the better option over the rather light framed rigid forked Pro-Connect.

The Agattu is almost identical to the Gazelle in character, except that it has the high power mode as well and the high capacity long range battery which would cope with your journeys with ease. The hills wouldn't trouble it at all.

The reliability question is difficult to answer. The earlier unit which was the original design had a couple of potential flaws. One was a main circuit board fault which could occur leaving it in Eco all the time, the other a total failure of the board, neither repairable since the board was encapsulated and sealed into a crankcase side. There were a couple of potential weak points on the mechanical side as well. However, all these faults were extremely rare and only affected a tiny number of the bikes. The rest are running at up to nearly seven years old now.

The latest unit has been out for some while on a couple of the very expensive European bikes like the BikeTech models and it's design obviously included the lessons Panasonic had learnt from the old one, so the hope is that it will be even more fault free. As before though, it's a sealed unit which is not intended to be repaired, just replaced if a failure occurs, the warranty looking after the first two years. It may be that the extended warranties cover the motor unit replacement, but it would be best to check that.

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Agattu

Hi Flecc,

Thanks for that, very helpful.

Next stage is to fit the Xtracycle to my mtb to see if I like it.

One thing that occurs to me about the Panasonic bikes is that it looks as if the chainstays are perhaps 6" longer than standard to accommodate the battery behind the seat tube. Do you find that that extra length helps loads to feel more stable. It obviously doesn't give the same cargo capacity as the Xtracycle, but perhaps enough capacity and stability for a child + shopping?

Andy

Hello Andy

I was also considering doing the same thing to an Agattu (I still might yet) but deciding to order a Kona Ute cargo bike which I am still waiting to arrive.

Do you know if the Xtracycle is suitable for the bigger 700c wheels or is there a separate version?.

Martin

 

One thing to bear in mind is that the Xtracycle is intended for use with derailleur gears and may not have a slotted frame for chain adjustment with a hub gear, so you may need to add a spring loaded jockey pulley, readily available.

 

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Yes I was wondering whether it would work okay with the hub gear. On the Xtracycle site it says its possible to move the whole of the Xtracycle frame within the bikes dropouts to tension the chain. It could be a bit awkward though?.

Martin

They are definitely a bit more stable Andy, but the length isn't increased quite as as much as it might seem. Most of the e-bikes with a battery behind the seat tube have their front frame dimensions compressed a bit, and sometimes also a different angle of the seat tube, both to constrain the length.

There's definitely the stability for a child and shopping, since the centre weight of the power unit and battery counterbalances the rear of the bike well, and keeps plenty of weight down low. I use a tail towbar hitch which takes substantial trailer nose weight well behind the wheel without lifting the front, shown on the Lafree Twist here.

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Yes I was wondering whether it would work okay with the hub gear. On the Xtracycle site it says its possible to move the whole of the Xtracycle frame within the bikes dropouts to tension the chain. It could be a bit awkward though?.

 

Martin

Yes, it would be awkward and expose frame clamping damage with each move, A jockey wheel near the rear is a simple solution, and derailleur rear mechanisms or jockey wheels work ok on the Lafree/Xtracycle combination.

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Agattu / Xtracycle

Hi Martin,

I think that's right you'd have to move the whole thing in the main bikes dropouts or as Flecc sugessts run a tensioner, which would probably be easier.

There is a 26" and 700 version of the Xtracycle and the differences are the placement of the brake bosses and I think the 700 has someting to raise the snap deck up a bit to give a bit more wheel clearance.

What this means is that the 26" version allows fitting of tyres up to 2.5", whereas the 700 version is limited to 35mm tyres. You can fit an Xtracycle with 26" wheel with fat tyres to a 700 frame bike. Apparantly a very good build is to take a 29er mtb (700 wheel size) and fit 26" wheels using disc brakes, this has an advantage of lowering BB height from std high of mtb and quickening steering which gets slower with adding Xtracycle to 700 bike. Of course this doesn't really help with converting an Agattu as to do so would mean rebuilding rear wheel as 26" and finding disc forks with same length rake etc as Agattu and I'm not sure but Agattu BB height may not be as high as a std mtb. It all starts to sound quite complicated.

Of course what's really wanted is a Panasonic equipped Surly Big Dummy! But I suspect custom building such a bike would be very costly.

I should add that all of the above is second hand from reading. I'm just about to add Xtracycle to my 29er mtb and will have a better idea of how the 26" / 700 thing goes as I can try it with both.

Cheers

Andy