Agattu review (Flecc)

[mk1]

Hello Andy
I was also considering doing the same thing to an Agattu (I still might yet) but deciding to order a Kona Ute cargo bike which I am still waiting to arrive.
Do you know if the Xtracycle is suitable for the bigger 700c wheels or is there a separate version?.

Martin

 

[mk1]

One thing to bear in mind is that the Xtracycle is intended for use with derailleur gears and may not have a slotted frame for chain adjustment with a hub gear, so you may need to add a spring loaded jockey pulley, readily available.

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Yes I was wondering whether it would work okay with the hub gear. On the Xtracycle site it says its possible to move the whole of the Xtracycle frame within the bikes dropouts to tension the chain. It could be a bit awkward though?.

Martin

 

[flecc]

They are definitely a bit more stable Andy, but the length isn't increased quite as as much as it might seem. Most of the e-bikes with a battery behind the seat tube have their front frame dimensions compressed a bit, and sometimes also a different angle of the seat tube, both to constrain the length.

There's definitely the stability for a child and shopping, since the centre weight of the power unit and battery counterbalances the rear of the bike well, and keeps plenty of weight down low. I use a tail towbar hitch which takes substantial trailer nose weight well behind the wheel without lifting the front, shown on the Lafree Twist here.
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[flecc]

Yes I was wondering whether it would work okay with the hub gear. On the Xtracycle site it says its possible to move the whole of the Xtracycle frame within the bikes dropouts to tension the chain. It could be a bit awkward though?.

Martin

Yes, it would be awkward and expose frame clamping damage with each move, A jockey wheel near the rear is a simple solution, and derailleur rear mechanisms or jockey wheels work ok on the Lafree/Xtracycle combination.
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[andyh2]

Agattu / Xtracycle

Hi Martin,

I think that's right you'd have to move the whole thing in the main bikes dropouts or as Flecc sugessts run a tensioner, which would probably be easier.

There is a 26" and 700 version of the Xtracycle and the differences are the placement of the brake bosses and I think the 700 has someting to raise the snap deck up a bit to give a bit more wheel clearance.

What this means is that the 26" version allows fitting of tyres up to 2.5", whereas the 700 version is limited to 35mm tyres. You can fit an Xtracycle with 26" wheel with fat tyres to a 700 frame bike. Apparantly a very good build is to take a 29er mtb (700 wheel size) and fit 26" wheels using disc brakes, this has an advantage of lowering BB height from std high of mtb and quickening steering which gets slower with adding Xtracycle to 700 bike. Of course this doesn't really help with converting an Agattu as to do so would mean rebuilding rear wheel as 26" and finding disc forks with same length rake etc as Agattu and I'm not sure but Agattu BB height may not be as high as a std mtb. It all starts to sound quite complicated.

Of course what's really wanted is a Panasonic equipped Surly Big Dummy! But I suspect custom building such a bike would be very costly.

I should add that all of the above is second hand from reading. I'm just about to add Xtracycle to my 29er mtb and will have a better idea of how the 26" / 700 thing goes as I can try it with both.

Cheers

Andy

 

[flecc]

I'm not sure but Agattu BB height may not be as high as a std mtb. It all starts to sound quite complicated.

The Agattu's ground to motor unit (BB) distance is 7.5" / 19cm Andy, so quite good in fact.

In case you'd missed it, I responded further back on the stability.
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[mk1]

Thanks for the info Andy. The Big Dummy looks nice, but not the price!. It could also be used with the Stokemonkey Cleverchimp when it becomes available again.
Heres a picture of a Lafree Xtracycle Untitled which I believe was built by the same bloke who went on to develop the StokeMonkey.

Martin

 

[andyh2]

Agattu load carrying

Flecc, that is an impressive load, I don't think I could get that in or on the car!

Again helpful feedback on carrying capacity of Agattu.

Andy

 

[kraeuterbutter]

@Flecc:
iam searching and searching and don´t find the review again...
in this review there was the Flyer S (the sport-version of the flyers) tested
and there he said, that the motor of the Flyer-F Series was bigger, heavier and more quiet

the Flyer-S makes a little sing, nothing to bother about

 

[flecc]

Here you are Kraeuterbutter:

Full review and test

A to B review extracts
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[burncycle]

Just wanted to go back to your review Flecc with a few new questions.
I keep reading your review and I read it again last night.
I think I may have grabbed to dynamics of the Kalkhoof pedelec more now or I may just be missing the point.

The Agattu gives you a better assist up hills the slower you go up that hill.
Is that correct?
Or the faster you attack the hill the more pedeling you have to put in yourself.

Hope this makes sense to you !

Bob

 

[flecc]

Not quite that. The assistance depends on the pedalling rate, (rpm), so the power is greatest when the pedalling rate on on the slow side.

So you can go faster by choosing a higher gear but still pedalling fairly slowly, or if thats too much work, still pedal slowly but in a lower gear.

The power needed on a hill is directly related to the speed of climb, so if you halve the speed, you halve the power needed. Therefore by careful gear choice you can arrange exactly the amount you do by adjusting the climb speed and the pedalling rate.

It sounds complicated, but in practice it's almost instinctive once you get the feel of the way the bike works.
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[burncycle]

50cycles told me that I just needed to put it in a low gear, then pedel and the Pro-Connect will literally take me up the hill.

 

[flecc]

That was too simplistic. If you pedalled fast in that low gear you would have to do far more work than if you changed up and pedalled a bit slower. A Panasonic unit can never just "take you up the hill". The highest amount it can ever contribute to what's needed is 57% in high power mode, so you must always provide at least 43% of the power necessary at any time. However, climbing with that bike is easy.

Try it for yourself when you get your bike and you'll see what I mean. In the manual with the bikes you'll see a graph showing the power levels at various speeds in the gears, showing clearly how the power from the motor drops as the speed in a gear (pedal rotation speed) rises.
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[HarryB]

49cm diamond frame Agattu

I am another one fallen for this bicycle. I have ordered the diamond framed 49cm version - I am 5'8" with 30 inch leg so I am sure this is the right size. I have gone for this as I think it will make a better commuting machine than the Torq (which is great) to use day in day out. Not sure what I will do with my Torq and if I keep it whether it will get much use.

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for a delivery in March.

 

[kraeuterbutter]

@flecc:
thanks for the links for the reviews..
infact, this are not the reviews i meant
i made also a error when posting in this thread..
i was mixing it with the " New Tasman bike announced"-Thread

however: the review i meant were in German language, testing the new Biketec Flyer-Series with new (Panasonic ?)-Driveunit

and there it says that the older Flyer-F-Series was more quiet..

when looking at these pictures:
it seems to me:
http://www.sunversy.de/images/galeriebilder/vektra1.jpg
one of the newer Flyers..
looks to me similar (driveunit) than the one i have seen on pics of the new Kalkhoffs which are discussed here..

here are pics of the Flyer-F-series (there are 100th of pics of the starboard-side of the bike, but have only found this of the portside of the bike)

http://www.sunversy.de/images/am11.jpg
http://www.sunversy.de/images/f6drb1.jpg
http://www.sunversy.de/images/herbst3.jpg

so to me it looks like:
the Flyer F-Motor is a direct-Drive-motor (direct-drive to the pedals, is it a panasonic-drive too ????)
the other Flyer-Motors (the panasonic ones looking like the Kalkhoffs) seem to have a gearing included

maybe this gearing is the cause for the little noise it makes compared to the Flyer F-series which seems to have not gearing
(the motor in the flyer F turns only max. 90rpm/min
with higher volts and letting it turn faster this motor can do over 20.000Watt Power)

 

[Leonardo]

Hi kraeuterbutter ,

as far as I know the F series project is completely different from the other Flyer Panasonic series. It is the first Flyer’s motor, a very sophisticated and expensive one: you can see some technical info in German here: esp@cenet description view

With this bicycle Flyer had its first success, but also big economic problems. When Flyer became Biketech they begun to produce the Panasonic drive bicycles, with the first lithium batteries: less expensive then the F series (they were called “The Flyer for everybody”! ).

 

[flecc]

Thanks Kraeuterbutter, understood.

As Leonardo says, that model is a completely different motor and drive system, having no connection with Panasonic or their motor unit.

I find the way BikeTech identify their various bike models very confusing, especially as they don't provide English language website pages. Although it's possible to order them in Britain, the agent here gives virtually no online information either.
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