Advise on a new Giant Giant FastRoad E+1 Pro Electric Bike - 1376577306

[Baz the balloon man]

I have also checked it out on the national bike site so no results or not known to be stolen .

 

[saneagle]

No I gave them the frame number ECT and have registered the bike and showed them e bay proof of purchase
Moose e bikes and scooters are the sellers they have a lot of high end bikes for sale on and off usually sold for parts only or bits missing.

I am covered on e bay as I have bought it in good faith from the owner , The bike was originally sold in electric warehouse I have checked.

If it did turn out to be stolen the owner will get his bike back and I will get my money back.

So no worries

I used to buy a lot of ex display or returned items at auction a lot of the big players just ship them off there
as they only want to sell new with warranty’s

The reason they needed the frame number is to check whether it's on the nicked database. What was their reason for not selling you the charger?

 

[Nealh]

As we have alluded to, one will need a specific CANbus charger as it has more then two pins for comms, a generic £10 - £15 jobbie won't cut the mustard so expect to pay over £100.

 

[soundwave]

Giant EnergyPak Smart Charger £139.99

Buy Giant EnergyPak Smart Charger for £139.99 at Cyclesense

www.cyclesense.co.uk

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The reason they needed the frame number is to check whether it's on the nicked database. What was their reason for not selling you the charger?

No Andy the guy in Giant Shop Camden Town said
“ Because of bike thefts they will not give any details on there system until the bike is registered with them with proof of purchase”
He said that his system was greyed out and he could not get any information.
And asked me to e mail him details which I have now done .

But like you I am now a little concerned as I found it quite easy to find original chargers sold by bike shops that I think will work I just want to be sure .

Tomorrow or Monday I will contact Moose Bikes and ask them for proof of legal ownership or provenance so I can then forward this to Giant , I have already given them copies of my e bay receipts that have been paid with my Credit card.

I hope your fears that it’s stolen are wrong but if you are correct then the legal owner will get his or hers bike back and I would be happy for them as the last thing I would want is to be riding around on a stolen bike .

I am sure it can be sorted out this week .

But that said when I went back to Saint Luke’s as in previous posts to get the battery for the Giant Prime they asked me for a further 50 quid for the charger as they wanted to sell it separately on e bay .
Which I gave them .
If I can not sell this bike whole I will look at selling it in bits as there is a good market for SH original spares.

Good SH original chargers are easy to sell and sell quickly .

So it’s not that uncommon for a bike or battery not to be sold with or without the charger.

 

[soundwave]

so you have the batt and charger now ?

 

[saneagle]

No Andy the guy in Giant Shop Camden Town said
“ Because of bike thefts they will not give any details on there system until the bike is registered with them with proof of purchase”
He said that his system was greyed out and he could not get any information.
And asked me to e mail him details which I have now done .

But like you I am now a little concerned as I found it quite easy to find original chargers sold by bike shops that I think will work I just want to be sure .

Tomorrow or Monday I will contact Moose Bikes and ask them for proof of legal ownership or provenance so I can then forward this to Giant , I have already given them copies of my e bay receipts that have been paid with my Credit card.

I hope your fears that it’s stolen are wrong but if you are correct then the legal owner will get his or hers bike back and I would be happy for them as the last thing I would want is to be riding around on a stolen bike .

I am sure it can be sorted out this week .

But that said when I went back to Saint Luke’s as in previous posts to get the battery for the Giant Prime they asked me for a further 50 quid for the charger as they wanted to sell it separately on e bay .
Which I gave them .
If I can not sell this bike whole I will look at selling it in bits as there is a good market for SH original spares.

Good SH original chargers are easy to sell and sell quickly .

So it’s not that uncommon for a bike or battery not to be sold with or without the charger.

When they use CANbus, they sometimes lock the battery to the bike and the charger to the battery by unique ID so that only the dealer can supply new ones. They have to program them specifically to match. I hope your bike isn't like that. It's about a 50/50 chance.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Thinking more on this
When I joined this club looking for advice on the Carrera Vulcan I bought from Halfords in London NW9.

Ex display missing
Battery , Charger , Keys , LCD , PAS.

Please see attached photo of my paperwork , no frame number supplied

And all the checks ticked were not actually done.

This Vulcan is now in the hands of a Young man whose dad bought the bike for him .
( Thanks to all who helped me with this sorry to see it go !)

So started this journey of selling SH e bike spares

However as Halfords have not put the frame number on any receipt that I have they basically employ kids as cheaply as possible I found them to be good kids but this still could cause issues in the future .

Then at some point if this bike is ever taken back to Halfords with a YOSE kit and Suntours motor .

Then some one may ask
Where did all the missing bits go ?
Where are the records ?
Did the staff use the bikes for spares before I bought it ?
Did some one manage to nick the bits whilst on display ?
Did a staff member nick the bits and get paid cash to repair bikes ?

These are the types of bikes that go to public or Police auction.

Because in this case Giant do not have there data base up to date or the bike was possibly stolen and then recovered like cars bought at public auction stolen then recovered.

Or some one basically wanted there money back after using a bike and claimed “ it keeps cutting out “
So they got there money back and Giant or an Agent sent it to Auction but did not up date there data base .
But decided to keep the charger or it got lost in transit or stolen by a courier who knows which bits to nick.

Or the bike was stolen insurance paid out then sent to Auction and the original owner still has the charger.

Then can we just assume that a bike that does not have a charger is Stolen ?

Or the guy in a Giant shop does not want or can not give information because they do not want to admit that there bikes are way way over priced and they have a policy that this is a grey area as he said that’s what his computer did !!

When I bought my first BMW in the 1980s we defeated the supposed can not be fixed or serviced software unless you let a main dealer rip you off .
One of the first garages in the UK that would service your BMW car .

Now we have Euro Car parts ECT

And now Pedelechs

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Whoops forgot to attach

 

[soundwave]

put it this way if it was stolen id not give you 50p for it all the money is in the batt and charger the rest is scrap.

because the can bus is encrypted to each system means it wont turn on or even charge if it does not talk to each other.

i think you just need a giant can bus compatible charger ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Yes just want to get the right charger ,
No wonder a guy who owned a bike shop in Buckinghamshire bought himself a Mcclaren car when Covid struck selling bikes !

I was talking with a company in China German designed bikes just before Covid there bikes are around 3k now battery in the mid drive in place of a motor .
I did not have the start up money to get the first shipment , went back into event catering got shut down for 3 years now I selling bikes in bits trying to start up again at 60 !!

I prefer to be in the pub

 

[Baz the balloon man]

When they use CANbus, they sometimes lock the battery to the bike and the charger to the battery by unique ID so that only the dealer can supply new ones. They have to program them specifically to match. I hope your bike isn't like that. It's about a 50/50 chance.

Oh I see so any charger that claimed to charge all energy pack as in the photo may not actually work.

Do you know which year this was introduced as the bike is a 2020 model .

Where can research be done on CANbus ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

So basically If it is locked I have to prove legal ownership to Giant to get any help from them ?

Hence the bike being sold as parts , sold as seen on e bay .

Which in the car game means diddly squat if a business sellers to a consumer.

Business to business still might have come backs ie an auction house has to list any faults especially online auction.

So to say the charger is missing and not mention that you can not just buy a replacement could be grounds to claim a refund ?

However I would prefer to force Giant if necessary by legal means to supply the information needed to make the bike work as it should without being ripped. Off .

This can be a bigger can of worms to open than the bike potentially being stolen .

It’s a great bike but new from a dealer with all the warranty’s in place it should be a maximum of £1,500.00
And I think that dear for a bike !!

 

[saneagle]

now I selling bikes in bits trying to start up again at 60 !!

Wouldn't it be better to start a business with something you know about? There are all sorts of pitfalls and liabilities when you deal in ebike stuff.

 

[thelarkbox]

Oh I see so any charger that claimed to charge all energy pack as in the photo may not actually work.

Do you know which year this was introduced as the bike is a 2020 model .

Where can research be done on CANbus ?

Lots of info on canbus, BUT its just the protocol same one used in cars . Bike manufacturers that use it employ a closed/private communication code. So while reading the canbus signals is documented all over the web and anyone with an evening and an arduino can have a go decoding the specific codes is a mammoth cracking job not yet undertaken by anyone afaik,

the sort of safety feature employed would be to have a legit charger send a specific 'Im legit' code when charging and for the battery to lodge this for reference with the bike on startup and if it fails the bike check, ie you used a 2021 charger on a 2022 bike.. It might do something like mark the battery as unsafe and turn off, or more likely run for 6 miles and then shut off.

You down own the bike, the giant system owns the bike you, are just leasing it..

 

[matthewslack]

I have not met a battery charger that is tied to a specific battery, and I would be surprised if any of the main manufacturers are doing that.

A Giant charger will only work with a Giant battery, but it will work with any Giant battery of the right type.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Wouldn't it be better to start a business with something you know about? There are all sorts of pitfalls and liabilities when you deal in ebike stuff.

LOL

I am a carpenter shop fitter apprentice when I left School

Showman working festivals and fairs also from 17 still do this food and non food .
Whole sale of balloons and helium this has recently become unviable because of the cost of helium and woke councils who are trying to ban children from having a balloon spouting “Sustainability “ as there woke reasoning.

A little dabble in the music industry in the 1990s

Sales and Wholesale This is my main job now ( Bit of a Del Boy I am told )

Professional Driver up to 7.5 T and limo work on and off when needs be .

I have sold quite a few vans and cars and can do a bit mechanical and body work .

I am a poor Elong Musk I want to know about everything I can before I die .

I was one of those kids who would pull a toy apart to see how it works we are all just big kids really !!

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I have not met a battery charger that is tied to a specific battery, and I would be surprised if any of the main manufacturers are doing that.

A Giant charger will only work with a Giant battery, but it will work with any Giant battery of the right type.

Thanks I hope so my wife won’t let me sell this one

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Pulse see message sent on e bay to Moose Bikes.


Andy the guy in the Giant shop in London is telling me his screen greys out when he inputs the frame number of this bike and will not give me at the moment any further information.
I sort help on the Pedelechs Forum of which I am a member and a few members voiced some concern that the bike might be stolen.
Because of the Two issues above and not being sold with a charger.
Could you help me with the Provence of the bike pls ie information of where you got it so I can prove to Giant that you have bought the bike from its legal owner.
I have traced the original sale to an Electric Warehouse but that’s as far as I have got so far.
Also some of the members think that the bike may have a CANbus system.
One quote
“because the can bus is encrypted to each system means it wont turn on or even charge if it does not talk to each other.’
Can you shed any light on this please as you said in the add the motor and battery have been tested by giant and are in full working order.
So I am assuming at some point you charged the battery.
I am posting this on the Pedelechs Forum and would also like to post your reply if that is ok with you .
Cheers
Steve
CC Pedelechs

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Just to clarify the different opinions on CANbus.

Are we saying that with the battery removed from the bike and plugged directly into an original giant charger with the adapter that it still may not charge ?

So the charger and battery working independently off the bike will not work unless giant link them with a code ?

Because the motor , battery, charger. And so controller are all linked by CANbus software that will not let any of the parts work independently?