Advice on supplier for hub kit

[saneagle]

It's very important that whatever sits outside the drop-out doesn't touch the lip. You can use a C-washer, a 20mm O/D 12mm I/D washer or one of the tapered anti-rotation washers, like the middle one below:

e-bike brushless dc hub motor anti-torque washers for fixing engines-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

e-bike brushless dc hub motor anti-torque washers for fixing engines.

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[Jodel]

I have Woosh DWG22C 48 volt kits installed on my tandem and on a solo bike. I was impressed enough after fitting the hub motor to the tandem to buy a second one for the solo. I’m just over 70Kgs and on a solo at least, the DGW22C has more than enough power for me. In fact, it might be slightly overkill on my solo, but I wanted parts commonality between the two bikes. The tandem weighs around 35Kgs and the solo about 25Kgs – in both cases, with rack / panniers / tools / battery etc.

The speed control of the Lishui controller is not especially sophisticated, but certainly perfectly acceptable. On both bikes, I tend use power level 2 most of the time, occasionally level 3 if there is a steep hill. On the solo, sometimes you can feel the power cutting in and out a bit on a gently undulating road.

For example, you may be doing a speed just above the cut-off of the set assistance level and if the speed drops, the motor chimes in. Speed then increases to just above the set level cut-off and assistance stops. Speed then falls slightly, the motor chimes in again, speed increases … on so on. You can end up constantly changing between a couple of gears*. It is far less noticeable on the tandem, probably due to the much greater mass of that machine.

This is far from a deal-breaker, but it’s one reason why I’d like to try current control. From the description saneagle gave in his post above, that would appear to provide a more consistent level of assistance. If this is something which Woosh can now offer, then I’ll give them a call.

* I'm a 'spinner' and like to maintain a steady cadence of around 90rpm. My gears (3 x 10 speed) are set up give around 5 rpm – 10rpm difference between ratios. That may not be a significant issue for many people.

 

[harrys]

I've done the comparison too. My 500w hubmotor is a lot stronger than the TSDZ2's. I believe this bike has a 22A KT controller. Easily shows 1000W on the KT LCD3 display when throttled. In contrast. the most I've seen on the Tongsheng is 11A, and the throttle is very subtle,

The higher power shows up in pedalling. I can cruise at 20-22 mph with effortless pedaling with the hubmotor, while it's a bit of work to go that fast on my TSDZ2. If you own one, you know what I mean. SHown is ny wofe's bike and my hubmotor.



Nonetheless, I never need to go much faster than 16 mph. WHen my wife and I ride around for fun, we ride her TSDZ2B and my TSDZ2, shown below.

 

[Bikes4two]

I hope you find this useful. I try to be as objective as I can, as I have no dog in this fight and own both systems on exactly the same bike. If you want to come to Telford, you can try them yourself side by side.

Yes, a very useful summary of your comparison thankyou (and I read your original review a few weeks back too).

Now, cards on the table:

• I absolutely do not have the depth and breadth of your bike/ebike experience and apart from a brief period of ownership of my wife's hub motor (which I installed a KT controller on which improved the ride from the Pendleton original but at that stage I didn't have the TSDZ2 to do a side by side comparison), I have nil experience of hub motors .
• I fully appreciate that different folks want different ways to use their ebikes and how they have the power delivered - I so happen to want to ride as though I'm on an unassisted bike but with a level of help that assists in a way that is akin to having 'bionic legs' (not my term but one often used to describe the way the TSDZ2 and other torque sensing middrives deliver power in proportion to one's own efforts). Thus at hills I change down gear rather than up the power - I still enjoy a bit of a work-out albeit at a reduced level.

Your experience of the TSDZ2 differs in some respects to mine and iirc from your first review you have yet to try the Open Source Firmware. For instance:

There's a pedal force threshold that seems to give two levels of power for each pedal assist level. If you pedal lightly, you get low power and if you pedal hard, you get the max power for that one of 4 assist levels.

That's strange, I don't experience the power delivery like that at all. The level of assistance from the bike seems to be in direct proportion to my own efforts. I wonder if the torque sensor in your motor is not right. I know on Endless Sphere there is a number of posts talking about 'calibrating' the torque sensor but it's not something I've felt the need to look into but obviously some folk have.

The TSDZ2 is slightly noisier, probably because of its position rather than the actual noise level. The ride is slightly harsher due to the power going through the chain, and you have to be in the right gear all the time.

True enough to all of that - one of my TSDZ2 it noticably noisier than the other ones in my 'collection' and it does seem from what you read on ES and here, that some are indeed noisier. Being in the right gear all the time - yes indeed but for my type of riding as in 'like riding an unassisted bike' that suits me fine, but that doesn't suit a lot of ebike riders which is fair enough.

I will at some stage be looking to fit a front hub to our tandem should I ever get around to pumping up the tyres. I can't fit a rear hub as it's a Rohloff IGH and hence both bottom brackets are eccentric, so no mid drive either.

I do wish I could get up to Telford as I'd gladly take you up on your offer (and thanks for that) so I can make an informed choice about which front hub and controller I should go for (fave at the moment is a Bafang G370 or similar with KT controller/display). And finally, I wonder if the OSF on your TSDZ2 would give you a better ride experience although from your obvious preference to hub motors, and I can see why that is the case, faffing with OSF might well not be on your to-do list?

 

[saneagle]

Yes, a very useful summary of your comparison thankyou (and I read your original review a few weeks back too).

Now, cards on the table:

• I absolutely do not have the depth and breadth of your bike/ebike experience and apart from a brief period of ownership of my wife's hub motor (which I installed a KT controller on which improved the ride from the Pendleton original but at that stage I didn't have the TSDZ2 to do a side by side comparison), I have nil experience of hub motors .
• I fully appreciate that different folks want different ways to use their ebikes and how they have the power delivered - I so happen to want to ride as though I'm on an unassisted bike but with a level of help that assists in a way that is akin to having 'bionic legs' (not my term but one often used to describe the way the TSDZ2 and other torque sensing middrives deliver power in proportion to one's own efforts). Thus at hills I change down gear rather than up the power - I still enjoy a bit of a work-out albeit at a reduced level.

Your experience of the TSDZ2 differs in some respects to mine and iirc from your first review you have yet to try the Open Source Firmware. For instance:

That's strange, I don't experience the power delivery like that at all. The level of assistance from the bike seems to be in direct proportion to my own efforts. I wonder if the torque sensor in your motor is not right. I know on Endless Sphere there is a number of posts talking about 'calibrating' the torque sensor but it's not something I've felt the need to look into but obviously some folk have.

True enough to all of that - one of my TSDZ2 it noticably noisier than the other ones in my 'collection' and it does seem from what you read on ES and here, that some are indeed noisier. Being in the right gear all the time - yes indeed but for my type of riding as in 'like riding an unassisted bike' that suits me fine, but that doesn't suit a lot of ebike riders which is fair enough.

I will at some stage be looking to fit a front hub to our tandem should I ever get around to pumping up the tyres. I can't fit a rear hub as it's a Rohloff IGH and hence both bottom brackets are eccentric, so no mid drive either.

I do wish I could get up to Telford as I'd gladly take you up on your offer (and thanks for that) so I can make an informed choice about which front hub and controller I should go for (fave at the moment is a Bafang G370 or similar with KT controller/display). And finally, I wonder if the OSF on your TSDZ2 would give you a better ride experience although from your obvious preference to hub motors, and I can see why that is the case, faffing with OSF might well not be on your to-do list?

Mine is a 48v version, so the change in power might be more noticeable. When I'm on the lower assist levels, I don't notice it so much.

I'm sure the OSF would be better than what I have. Maybe I'll try it over the winter. My plan was to use this bike for a 4 week trip starting two weeks ago, but illness has postponed it probably to next June now, as it has to be at this time of the year. I've got some sort of flu or covid that I've had for 4 weeks now. It's completely taken my strength away and makes me feel quite ill. I'm getting better, but very slowly.

 

[Bikes4two]

I'm saddened to hear that you are below par @saneagle -its a bummer not being 21 anymore - I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

[Bogmonster666]

It's very important that whatever sits outside the drop-out doesn't touch the lip. You can use a C-washer, a 20mm O/D 12mm I/D washer or one of the tapered anti-rotation washers, like the middle one below:

e-bike brushless dc hub motor anti-torque washers for fixing engines-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

e-bike brushless dc hub motor anti-torque washers for fixing engines.

www.greenbikekit.com

Agreed, I think it will be ok but need to watch the fillet where the hood joins the dropout. Otherwise the wheels liable to become detached at a disappointing and inconvenient time. The chamfered washer will give a bit more leeway for sure. Taking the wheel off without a socket will be a pita.

 

[saneagle]

I'm saddened to hear that you are below par @saneagle -its a bummer not being 21 anymore - I wish you a speedy recovery.

Thanks. Nothing too much to worry about. It's just been a pain. Good news - I went out for an easy ride on my bike today for the first time in a month. My legs are working again, at last, but I still feel a bit under the weather. I'm improving all the time.

 

[Cadence]

Thanks. Nothing too much to worry about. It's just been a pain. Good news - I went out for an easy ride on my bike today for the first time in a month. My legs are working again, at last, but I still feel a bit under the weather. I'm improving all the time.

You have my commiserations. I've been feeling similar for about a month - absolutely no stamina, constantly tired, constantly hungry. No amount of exercise, change of diet or supplements makes any difference. I feel it's getting better but very slowly.
I'm convinced that it's a Covid variant, but even if I could get a doctor's appointment (ha! ha!) I've no faith that it would be diagnosed and if it isn't Covid I might then catch it while I'm at the medical centre!

 

[Nealh]

There is a new covid strain doing the rounds and it appears to be hitting the elderly or others with under lying conditions.
Sorry to hear you have been ill of late d8veh and wish you well back to better health soon I hope.

 

[saneagle]

There is a new covid strain doing the rounds and it appears to be hitting the elderly or others with under lying conditions.
Sorry to hear you have been ill of late d8veh and wish you well back to better health soon I hope.

Those dirty rotten bar stewards in the WEF causing us all this misery. They're going to be in jail before I die.

Thanks for everyone's wishes and prayers. It seems to be working.

 

[Bogmonster666]

I did have a ride analogue style on the donor bike. That was hard work, I'm getting soft with the motor on the crapcycle. The donor bike is a rather plump 13+ kg and fat knobly tyres without much air in them. Still not sure why I needed a bike with suspension forks? OK, that's the excuses, I was genuinely shocked how feeble I am at cycling. I am moderately fit and capable of other exercise...I'll be swapping those tyres out I am sure. A friend of mine recently did the chasing the sun ride and covered 210 miles in 17 hour which blows my mind. Still, in my chosen activity I am probably fitter, it's just not cycling. I'm going to try it up my long steep hill tomorrow and see how I get on. Thinking of retiring soon so I'll have more time and maybe I can get cycling fit. I also have a lightweight hybrid on the way that I think will be far more enjoyable to ride analogue.

 

[Bogmonster666]

Interesting discussion on TSDZ8:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/141295902158544/

There is some dissatisfaction with the silence on spare part availability. Also, the problems with the initial buggy firmware and difficulty flashing.

 

[Woosh]

Tongsheng sent me a flashing tool.
It is easy with the right tool, job done in 30 seconds.
Tongsheng kits are not perfect but I think the tsdz8 is the best for road legal CD.

 

[Benjahmin]

The initial question was about suppliers.
I found Topbikekit to be reliable. True, it will be much cheaper to buy a bare motor (shipping costs) but the first time wheel building experience proved to be very enjoyable and not the dark art it's made out to be. Took me about 3 hours actual build time and it trued very easily.
I ended up with a 22A KT controller (9mosfets) but use it set to 17A maximum, that's plenty. I've used it with both a 36 and 48v battery (on the same ride) and can testify to the 30ish% more torque being very enjoyable.
Take your pick with motors. Plenty of capable 250w labelled motors, just watch out for specified rpm and remeber that you can use a 36v motor at 48v, or vice versa, to get the rpm you want.
I went for block connectors rather than waterproof, to aid any fault finding.