4th London Cyclist killed in 8 days

[flecc]

This morning a woman became the 4th London cyclist to be killed in the last 8 days.

The collision was at Bow and again involved a left-turning heavy vehicle.

Up until last week the London cycling deaths were down on last year, which in turn was down on the year before, but this week has been a disaster.

If you cycle in London, or elsewhere for that matter, the left side of heavy vehicles is a danger zone best avoided, especially at road junctions. Best drop back and lose time rather than life.

 

[SRS]

This morning a woman became the 4th London cyclist to be killed in the last 8 days.

The collision was at Bow and again involved a left-turning heavy vehicle.

Up until last week the London cycling deaths were down on last year, which in turn was down on the year before, but this week has been a disaster.

If you cycle in London, or elsewhere for that matter, the left side of heavy vehicles is a danger zone best avoided, especially at road junctions. Best drop back and lose time rather than life.

Flecc

Do you think some cyclists intentionally ride up the inside of these vehicles or is it a case of these vehicles coming alongside?

I cannot imagine anyone cycling up the inside on purpose. As they say, if you can't see me I can't see you.

 

[flecc]

Sadly some still do ride up alongside. One CCTV of the run up to a woman getting killed showed her riding up to a readymix concrete truck standing at traffic lights which had it's large left rear indicator clearly flashing. She rode straight past the flashing indicator on the nearside and as the light's changed she was crushed to death by the truck as it turned. Naturally the TV news didn't show that final stage of the event, just up to the start of the truck turning.

One of our members argued strongly that it's necessary to ride alongside or one would never get anywhere due to the number of heavies on the road. There's an element of truth in that of course, but I don't think it's so vital that one needs to be alongside at the critical points at left turns.

For those who get a truck turning up alongside, I say just let it pull away first, the stop line of the lights isn't on the bend, there's a pedestrian crossing width ahead first so just staying still is safe while letting the truck or bus go.
.

 

[SRS]

Sadly some still do ride up alongside. One CCTV of the run up to a woman getting killed showed her riding up to a readymix concrete truck standing at traffic lights which had it's large left rear indicator clearly flashing. She rode straight past the flashing indicator on the nearside and as the light's changed she was crushed to death by the truck as it turned. Naturally the TV news didn't show that final stage of the event, just up to the start of the truck turning.

One of our members argued strongly that it's necessary to ride alongside or one would never get anywhere due to the number of heavies on the road. There's an element of truth in that of course, but I don't think it's so vital that one needs to be alongside at the critical points at left turns.

For those who get a truck turning up alongside, I say just let it pull away first, the stop line of the lights isn't on the bend, there's a pedestrian crossing width ahead first so just staying still is safe while letting the truck or bus go.
.

For anyone to say that it is nescessary to ride alongside, they're welcome to do so.

Personally I'll listen to my little internal voice, it usually but not always corrects me when I'm planning something stupid.

Whatever, I'll concentrate on staying out of their blind spots, even if it means hogging the road or walking for a little way.

I can't help thinking that a big TV Add campaign. The clunk click worked on the seatbelt issue.

 

[flecc]

Maybe TV could help, but we've had BBC 1 and ITV both with programs specifically about this problem, ITV actually doing a graphic re-enactment of a truck running over a cyclist on a left turn, obviously slowly and stopped just before the bike went under the truck's rear wheels.

Both have also covered the problem at length in news programs as well, BBC Radio 4's PM program has also covered it deeply a number of times. In addition Ken Livingstone ran a relevant newspaper campaign of full page ads in all the various London-wide and local papers. Cycling organisations have also campaigned on it and as you know, I've regularly posted descriptively about the nature of the problem.

One has to conclude that some simply won't be helped for whatever reason. Maybe unplugging their earphones and taking their noses out of their smartphone screens to participate in real rather than virtual society would be more effective.

 

[Yamdude]

I've been a HGV 1 driver for most of my working life. Many cyclists will insist on riding up your nearside. They were the bane of my life when driving in towns and cities. If you were stopped at traffic lights and indicating left, you would have to stop with your wheels a few inches away from the nearside curb to stop cyclists riding up the inside and getting in your blind spot. Even then some of them would use those few inches of width, with their wheels in the gutter and pushing the bike with their left foot on the pavement.
When traffic is stopped, whether it be for traffic lights or congestion, some cyclists are only interested in making progress and are quite prepared to risk their life doing so.

 

[OxygenJames]

I've been a HGV 1 driver for most of my working life. Many cyclists will insist on riding up your nearside. They were the bane of my life when driving in towns and cities. If you were stopped at traffic lights and indicating left, you would have to stop with your wheels a few inches away from the nearside curb to stop cyclists riding up the inside and getting in your blind spot. Even then some of them would use those few inches of width, with their wheels in the gutter and pushing the bike with their left foot on the pavement.
When traffic is stopped, whether it be for traffic lights or congestion, some cyclists are only interested in making progress and are quite prepared to risk their life doing so.

It's a terrible tragedy for the family of course - but I must admit to feeling very little sympathy for this person. How plainly stupid is it to ride in a lorry's blind spot? Huh? Death wish or what. If anything their estate should pay out damages to the Lorry driver for the stress caused. Along with people who jump into the paths of trains to kill themselves. I'd have their estate pay out to everybody who is delayed too.

 

[Yamdude]

Of course, truck mirrors now are far better than they used to be. You have your main mirror on the arm and underneath you have a separate wide angle mirror, and now most trucks have a wide angle mirror positioned above the nearside door that looks directly down. By your nearside door was the main blind spot that cyclists would get into and if they're too far out from the nearside door it still can be a blindspot even with these above door mirrors.
But where the problems start, is you cannot be constantly looking in your nearside mirrors all the time. Any manoeuvre that you do, you also need to be looking ahead and checking your right mirrors for trailer swing out. Its in these few seconds of checking other views that a cyclist can ride up your nearside and sometimes just disappear from the drivers view.

 

[Clockwise]

I think tunnel vision describes it best. For some cyclists it doesn't register any difference passing a bus, truck or car, it's simply a mass of a certain size that they want to pass. I don't think headphones or anything have any effect on that, it's as simple as people who zone out a little on the tube/bus and miss a stop but with much worse results.

Stay safe, don't cycle in a hurry or tired if you can avoid it.

 

[flecc]

you cannot be constantly looking in your nearside mirrors all the time. Any manoeuvre that you do, you also need to be looking ahead and checking your right mirrors for trailer swing out. Its in these few seconds of checking other views that a cyclist can ride up your nearside and sometimes just disappear from the drivers view.

Exactly the point I made in here in the last thread on this subject, adding extra mirrors doesn't add to the available time to look at them when turning left, as I know from my own truck driving experience.

Cyclists must share the responsibility for their own safety, HGV drivers cannot be expected to carry all the burden of responsibility.

 

[Clockwise]

Rider Down - London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Not seen that many topics in 1 day before.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Sad, a shameful state of affairs, riders having to avoid roads with vehicles which are vastly heavier, and faster!.. If riders had 100 tonne bikes, would we have to worry about vehicles? No, vehicle drivers would be told "stay away from bikes, coz it's your own fault if you get flattened,.might is right".
Let's try the Netherlands way, there if bike & vehicle collide, its up to vehicle driver to prove it *wasn't* their fault. Use the 'full width of the road' to 'make safe, reasonable progress' along the 'public highway'. You only have 1 life, so make the best of the available resources, after all, you've paid for them ;-(
Cheers, Mikey
Oh, got an idea, 'all vehicles to be fitted with mandatory mobile phone blocker, on while engine running'. That should keep drivers minds on the road, mirrors, other road users.. :-0

 

[flecc]

Too easy to blame the truck drivers Mike, do you really think they don't mind running over cyclists? The fact is that the prospect horrifies them as much as it does us. Truck drivers manouvering through central London's heavily trafficked tight corners are not on mobile phones as you imagine, that's an open road possibility, the driving of their large vehicle is as much as they can manage without having to cope with the idiot cycling element as well.

Every mature person's road safety is their own responsibility, it is not a responsibility that can be passed to other road users.

We have the city we have in London, there's no possibility of us separating cyclists without bulldozing it all and starting again, so roads have to be shared and responsibility shared too. The responsible and sensible cyclists don't get killed or even injured. I've been cycling for 67 years, most of them in inner and outer London boroughs and never been knocked off once or received the slightest scratch.

Staying safe while cycling is much easier than safely driving a very large truck around London's confined streets as I know from experience of doing both. Fortunately my trucking was before the current hordes of commuter cyclists and Boris-bike amateurs appeared, and I can only imagine how tough it is for today's inner London truckers coping with that lot while trying to do their job.

 

[Clockwise]

Sad, a shameful state of affairs, riders having to avoid roads with vehicles which are vastly heavier, and faster!.. If riders had 100 tonne bikes, would we have to worry about vehicles? No, vehicle drivers would be told "stay away from bikes, coz it's your own fault if you get flattened,.might is right".
Let's try the Netherlands way, there if bike & vehicle collide, its up to vehicle driver to prove it *wasn't* their fault. Use the 'full width of the road' to 'make safe, reasonable progress' along the 'public highway'. You only have 1 life, so make the best of the available resources, after all, you've paid for them ;-(
Cheers, Mikey
Oh, got an idea, 'all vehicles to be fitted with mandatory mobile phone blocker, on while engine running'. That should keep drivers minds on the road, mirrors, other road users.. :-0

I think you are missing the point. It's one thing to be forced into the curb/off the road by motorists, that's bad and not a cyclists fault BUT it's another thing to place yourself as a cyclist into the blind spot of a HGV. You can debate it to the end of the earth which is right or wrong but you couldn't pay me to go alongside some things on the road.

The "I will never get anywhere" that some cyclists give as an excuse is just total rubbish, use an app like strava and get an actual measure of your speed and what you lose/gain by risking your life, from my own checks I found a "clean" ride with no buses/hgvs was maybe 1min faster but then a ride I stopped to tie my shoelaces on was 2min slower, I can't see it.

A typical example of dangerous cyclists was today, around 4-5pm so not dark but not light half cars have lights on and half don't. I'm cycling along and come up behind one of these...

Nobody was killed but while I was matching it's pace 1/2 a cars length from the back of it atleast 5 cyclists rode alongside and past it in a gap barely more than a handlebar wide, I'm almost partly sure that my positioning made him watch his mirror and allowed some of them to pass as after a short while he stopped swaying ever so slightly. Similar with buses and other large stuff but the car carrier thing just looked more scary with very few lights/notices/anything.

Here is one, in the cycle path... no wait he was alongside a bus and crashed into a mirror all by himself...

[video=youtube;9ZAm-57WIVc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZAm-57WIVc[/video]

 

[flecc]

And it looks like he had the nerve to look annoyed at the car driver who was driving responsibly in the offside lane. That the car was forced in slightly by the island didn't matter, it was the car driver's lane and squeezing in between a bus and car on a bike is asking for trouble.

 

[NZgeek]

And it looks like he had the nerve to look annoyed at the car driver who was driving responsibly in the offside lane. That the car was forced in slightly by the island didn't matter, it was the car driver's lane and squeezing in between a bus and car on a bike is asking for trouble.

Guys like that are why people think so little of cyclists. I stick to my lanes, obey the rules and lights, just like I would when driving. Drivers seem to respect that and give me my space. I stay out of their way where I can, and will try to let cars past me, before moving out for parked cars etc.

When I'm driving OR cycling, there are seriously stupid cyclists around who give us all a bad name. I think a lot of drivers feel uncomfortable with cyclists nearby, as we ARE vulnerable and the drivers aren't always sure what we are going to do.

In that video above, there was NOWHERE for the car to go - I think the driver suddenly saw the cyclist, panicked a bit and braked hard for fear of running him over.

Do people in cars try to drive 3 wide in 2 lanes?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't think he hit the mirror. He hit the brakes and his grabby front brake sent him straight over the handlebars. If he'd hit the mirror, his bike wouldn't have reared up like that. If he hadn't used the brake he would probably been OK whether he hit the mirror or not. This is why I prefer disk brakes. They don't do that.

 

[Scimitar]

The stupid car driver swung slightly left before making the right turn. That's a common problem with many drivers. In this instance the cyclist was entirely faultless (might have been filtering on a wing and a prayer, but not his accident).
It's not a driving fault that's as common as it used to be, especially inside heavily-used areas and I'd be willing to bet the driver is from out of town or foreign from a place that's less heavily-trafficked.

 

[flecc]

The stupid car driver swung slightly left before making the right turn. That's a common problem with many drivers. In this instance the cyclist was entirely faultless (might have been filtering on a wing and a prayer, but not his accident).
It's not a driving fault that's as common as it used to be, especially inside heavily-used areas and I'd be willing to bet the driver is from out of town or foreign from a place that's less heavily-trafficked.

That's wrong, look at the road island and the white lines leading up to it, and then at the van ahead of the car that's right turning. The line that the car was taking didn't show him right turning at all, he was just going straight on in that right hand lane, and he was entitled to use it's space.

The cyclist was doing what so many city cyclists do, not wanting to lose momentum he was taking the risk of squeezing between vehicles when it wasn't safe to do so, and had just done so between the preceding car and the bus. The enforced narrowing of the road by the road island led to him coming unstuck in the narrowing gap.

The correct place for the cyclist was behind either the bus or the car, and only passing either alone, not between the bus and another vehicle on a two lane road. He created his own accident and the driver was the victim.

 

[SRS]

The stupid car driver swung slightly left before making the right turn. That's a common problem with many drivers. In this instance the cyclist was entirely faultless (might have been filtering on a wing and a prayer, but not his accident).
It's not a driving fault that's as common as it used to be, especially inside heavily-used areas and I'd be willing to bet the driver is from out of town or foreign from a place that's less heavily-trafficked.

Surely you are not serious? The fool on the cycle was entirely to blame.