250 watt is it a myth?

[Andy88]

Let me start by saying that I'm a novice here but I'm either blessed or handicapped with a very enquiring mind.

Recently I stumbled on a 2012 thread with d8veh and kudosbikes being the main contributors on an electric bike called the Tonaro Bighit with a torque of 128/nm.

Trex gave some input on controller output in another thread but we didn't elaborate much on it.

So my question is two fold how important is torque and controller output and how does it benefit riders with weaker or problematic legs?

Also within a £1,500 budget, which bike in anyone's opinion has the best specs in terms of torque and output power.

We can dismiss CD and torque models as I am led to believe these types of bikes require more pedal input.

Andy

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[D8ve]

Let me start by saying that I'm a novice here but I'm either blessed or handicapped with a very enquiring mind......
.....
We can dismiss CD and torque models as I am led to believe these types of bikes require more pedal input.

Andy

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Nope.
Crank Drive come in various varieties. The cadence sensor type just needs the pedals turning and they go. No force required.
You also get torque sensored ones, these will output a % of your effort from half upto around 4 times so yes effort here but!
Both types can have throttles , add in they can use the gears and they can climb any hill (slowly) or cruse economically.
Hub drives can be beaten by old fat men on big hills.( perhaps personal experience?)

 

[Andy88]

Nope.
Crank Drive come in various varieties. The cadence sensor type just needs the pedals turning and they go. No force required.
You also get torque sensored ones, these will output a % of your effort from half upto around 4 times so yes effort here but!
Both types can have throttles , add in they can use the gears and they can climb any hill (slowly) or cruse economically.
Hub drives can be beaten by old fat men on big hills.( perhaps personal experience?)

If this is correct then it appears many dealers that I have emailed really do not have a scooby.



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[Andy88]

I note on some Chinese manucturers that their hub Motors are rated 150w to 350w does this mean that some motors in the UK could actually have 350w capability but are governed and labeled as 250w

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[trex]

that's correct.

 

[Andy88]

that's correct.

Do you know if the governing is software controlled or mechanically restricted?

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[trex]

the labelling is easy, you just ask the motor manufacturers - your 350W model, can I have it in 250W please?
The governing is in the speedometer, controller and the LCD. The speedo will tell the controller that it's hitting the set speed limit so power must be cut.
German controllers are usually better programmed, giving a smooth reduction of power whilst Chinese controllers tend to just cut the power.

 

[Andy88]

the labelling is easy, you just ask the motor manufacturers - your 350W model, can I have it in 250W please?
The governing is in the speedometer, controller and the LCD. The speedo will tell the controller that it's hitting the set speed limit so power must be cut.
German controllers are usually better programmed, giving a smooth reduction of power whilst Chinese controllers tend to just cut the power.

That is inline with my beliefs.

Thanks for the controller heads up.

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[anotherkiwi]

German controllers are usually better programmed, giving a smooth reduction of power whilst Chinese controllers tend to just cut the power.

This one is a very good Chinese one:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/695-s06sc-sine-wave-controller-for-central-motor-ebike-kit.html

 

[Andy88]

This one is a very good Chinese one:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/695-s06sc-sine-wave-controller-for-central-motor-ebike-kit.html

Yes seen that one on a few manufacturer spec sheets

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[Andy88]

That is inline with my beliefs.

Thanks for the controller heads up.

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The Juicy Roller maximum peak output is around 800w how does the big bear stack up against it bearing in mind I appreciate the £400 odd price diff.

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[trex]

There is a review here if you haven't seen it before:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/bike-reviews/juicy-roller-electric-bike
Judging by the size of the motor on the pictures, the motor on the Juicy looks like the Aikema 100SX. Aikema website is here:
http://aikema.com.cn/En_index.asp

On paper, the BPM on the Big Bear can certainly take a lot more current than the Aikema. That's aside, you will need to know which controller is fitted to the Juicy in order to make a comparison. The Big Bear has 20A controller, motor winding code 13.
For more information on the BPM, follow the link to the geekiest forum:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43106
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74617
The Big Bear motor is at its best at around 14mph, that's the speed it goes up a 5% hill. For more information, follow the link to woosh website:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts

 

[Andy88]

There is a review here if you haven't seen it before:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/bike-reviews/juicy-roller-electric-bike
Judging by the size of the motor on the pictures, the motor on the Juicy looks like the Aikema 100SX. Aikema website is here:
http://aikema.com.cn/En_index.asp

On paper, the BPM on the Big Bear can certainly take a lot more current than the Aikema. That's aside, you will need to know which controller is fitted to the Juicy in order to make a comparison. The Big Bear has 20A controller, motor winding code 13.
For more information on the BPM, follow the link to the geekiest forum:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43106
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74617
The Big Bear motor is at its best at around 14mph, that's the speed it goes up a 5% hill. For more information, follow the link to woosh website:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?motorcharts

Thanks again, the roller has tendancy to cut out at traffic lights but can be remedied by taking your foot off the pedals. In a nutshell its hard to justify the extra 400 quid over the bb even if the Aikema motor is quieter.

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[trex]

the difference pays the dealer to look after the customers.

 

[Andy88]

Imo At £1,049 Inc delivery the bb is hard to beat in its class, if raising the bar to £1,500 you can find a Cube or Bergamot with high end components and a branded crank motor.

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[trex]

I agree. The diferential between 20% drop in the GBP/USD pair against 10% drop in the GBP/EUR pair after the referendum places good Chinese bikes between a rock and a hard place. If the ex China FOB price is under $700, you can still compete on VFM with German bikes but anything higher, it's nigh impossible.

 

[Andy88]

I agree. The diferential between 20% drop in the GBP/USD pair against 10% drop in the GBP/EUR pair after the referendum places good Chinese bikes between a rock and a hard place. If the ex China FOB price is under $700, you can still compete on VFM with German bikes but anything higher, it's nigh impossible.

This is a bargain but not my style

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[trex]

if it's new, then it's well below cost.
Ex Ningbo FOB price for an equivalent bike with that Shimano kit is $1,100 each for one 20ft container. You still have to add about 30% to pay for freight, duty and VAT.

 

[Andy88]

if it's new, then it's well below cost.
Ex Ningbo FOB price for an equivalent bike with that Shimano kit is $1,100 each for one 20ft container. You still have to add about 30% to pay for freight, duty and VAT.

Yep, there were 4 of them an hour earlier, they will be gone by tomorrow.

Ningbo, spent many a happy day there in my younger days.

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[Artstu]

The Juicy Roller maximum peak output is around 800w how does the big bear stack up against it bearing in mind I appreciate the £400 odd price diff.

This should be of interest, here's some Strava stats comparing the development Juicy bike with the Roller motor system compared to my old classic Bosch bike.
I did my first run on the Juicy,and second run back up on my bike, despite being tired from the first run I was 2:24 faster on my bike, I didn't find the Juicy bike enjoyable to ride in the way my bike is.

https://www.strava.com/activities/565062132