Im thinking along those lines
Why not sram or shimano hubs?
Are the ones you mentioned much better?
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250 watt is it a myth?
- Thread starter Andy88
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Why not sram or shimano hubs?
Are the ones you mentioned much better?
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Hi Andy88.
The Shimano Hubs are known to be rather fragile, although the later 11 speed in carnations have been beefed up somewhat.
I have already ruined a SRAM Spectro P7 from pedal power alone, as I made the gearing below the recommended minimum, although my current hack bike does have a Spectro P7, with higher gearing and that is still going strong after about 20 years use!.
The Nuvinci I am lead to believe was designed with ebike use, from the get go, there are two incarnations, of the Nuvinci, although I am not sure about the infinite gearing thing, I prefer to be in a set gear.
As for the Rohloff, well I have had had one for 12 years, and the gear range is awesome, nothing can touch it.
All ebike with internal gear hubs have the lower torque motors, especially the Bosch models.
With a 250w 80nm motor, the Rohloff will handle that no problem, so long as you don't go to low with the gearing, I would go for 44T Chainring and 17T rear Sprocket, that should get me up any hill, and allow me to cruise at 20mph on the flat with ease.
The fact is my Rohloff 26" wheel, rigid MTB Hybrid style bike can get me up those hills now, albiet slowly, at 56 yeas, 5ft 11" and 14 Stone I am no lightweight, a little electric motor power I hope will get me up the hills without almost killing myself.
As much as I like the idea of the Bafang 8fun CD kits, they are a bit of a lash up, compared to a bike running the Bafang Max Drive motors, and sticking with 250w there will be no sleepless nights!
The Shimano Hubs are known to be rather fragile, although the later 11 speed in carnations have been beefed up somewhat.
I have already ruined a SRAM Spectro P7 from pedal power alone, as I made the gearing below the recommended minimum, although my current hack bike does have a Spectro P7, with higher gearing and that is still going strong after about 20 years use!.
The Nuvinci I am lead to believe was designed with ebike use, from the get go, there are two incarnations, of the Nuvinci, although I am not sure about the infinite gearing thing, I prefer to be in a set gear.
As for the Rohloff, well I have had had one for 12 years, and the gear range is awesome, nothing can touch it.
All ebike with internal gear hubs have the lower torque motors, especially the Bosch models.
With a 250w 80nm motor, the Rohloff will handle that no problem, so long as you don't go to low with the gearing, I would go for 44T Chainring and 17T rear Sprocket, that should get me up any hill, and allow me to cruise at 20mph on the flat with ease.
The fact is my Rohloff 26" wheel, rigid MTB Hybrid style bike can get me up those hills now, albiet slowly, at 56 yeas, 5ft 11" and 14 Stone I am no lightweight, a little electric motor power I hope will get me up the hills without almost killing myself.
As much as I like the idea of the Bafang 8fun CD kits, they are a bit of a lash up, compared to a bike running the Bafang Max Drive motors, and sticking with 250w there will be no sleepless nights!
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Or remedied via software... as we did when we moved to production following tests and reviews of prototypes, like the one in the Cycling Weekly review.
And my washing machine has a 25 amp motor controller, but is no good as an electric bike.
Be careful about paper analysis. We don't encourage a purchase before a test ride. That's no good for us or the customer.
If you like the look, take a test ride, or move on to another bike and go test that.
I read this with great interest, thank you. All said and done do you think then that I would I be better off with a hub motor and possibly deralieur gears?
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Bob, absolutely correct but geographically and practically difficult to compare all brands and types so paper reviews are the only initial way to create a short list of physical trials.
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Yes, understood - I realise you are thousands of miles away - my comment was for anyone reading. In 30 minutes of test riding at a good shop with a good range of bikes you'll appreciate how a bike can suit you best. Every single partnership (rider and bike) is a different experience.
Yes even when I'm back in the uk I will be limited to dealerships within a reasonable radius.
The main decision is what to opt for in the key technologies aka motor type gearbox type, apart from battery all other aspects, frame, wheel size etc is simpler can be ascertained at any bike shop.
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As electric bikes go more mainstream the technology will become more advanced particular in battery and motor efficiency and possibly gears to, we are seeing that with the advent of gtech, momentum and others.
You are correct in saying a bike is a personal thing and each and everyone has differing needs, are different ages and body size.
In comparison picking a moped is much easier as the technical side of them has already reached parity.
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Batteries and motors are quite mature now. It's only the control side that's coming on. Electric bikes can do over 300km either as range or speed. Legal bikes have had the limits pushed in what matches the law.
Then it's just the most important point, test ride and test ride again.
Then it's just the most important point, test ride and test ride again.
Thanks for that comment Andy88, my problem is that I have never liked derailleur gears, always having preferred IGH even as an 8 year old kid back in 1968 the bike I had was a 20" Wheel Moulton with a 3 Speed Sturmy archer IGH maybe that was were the seed was sown.
To my mind derailure gears on an ebike just look silly, it's kind of last century meets this century, I even think the same of none ebikes.
So for me that rules out a rear wheel mounted electric hub motor, and I certainley would not contemplate a front wheel mounted hub motor, but that's just me, I guess it must be a personal thing, as both types are very popular.
Going back to CD motors, it is only a matter of time before we start to see motors comming with built in gears, I mean how hard can it be to build one, I could see maybe Pinion who make mid drive gear box's for pedal Bikes, maybe working with Bosch or Yamaha etc.
What caught my eye with the Bafang Max Drive bike, is that it is an of the shelf solution, albiet with derailure gears, but most interestingly the user can alter the max speed, without having to use a dongle, now that could be quite a usefull feature, on what is essentially a legal ebike, with 250w CD motor.
Adding a Rohloff or Nuvinci IGH to a Bafang Max Drive bike, would be quite straight forward, a Single Speed chain Tentioner would be required, and in the case of the Rohloff a Torque arm would be needed, all very doable, although not as elegant as I would like.
In fact I even have a Rohloff SpeedBone left over from a previous bike that my Rohloff was fitted to, but I did sell my Rohloff chain Tentioner unused back in 2004, and I guess I will regret that, as they are not cheap to buy new!
To my mind derailure gears on an ebike just look silly, it's kind of last century meets this century, I even think the same of none ebikes.
So for me that rules out a rear wheel mounted electric hub motor, and I certainley would not contemplate a front wheel mounted hub motor, but that's just me, I guess it must be a personal thing, as both types are very popular.
Going back to CD motors, it is only a matter of time before we start to see motors comming with built in gears, I mean how hard can it be to build one, I could see maybe Pinion who make mid drive gear box's for pedal Bikes, maybe working with Bosch or Yamaha etc.
What caught my eye with the Bafang Max Drive bike, is that it is an of the shelf solution, albiet with derailure gears, but most interestingly the user can alter the max speed, without having to use a dongle, now that could be quite a usefull feature, on what is essentially a legal ebike, with 250w CD motor.
Adding a Rohloff or Nuvinci IGH to a Bafang Max Drive bike, would be quite straight forward, a Single Speed chain Tentioner would be required, and in the case of the Rohloff a Torque arm would be needed, all very doable, although not as elegant as I would like.
In fact I even have a Rohloff SpeedBone left over from a previous bike that my Rohloff was fitted to, but I did sell my Rohloff chain Tentioner unused back in 2004, and I guess I will regret that, as they are not cheap to buy new!
You can alter the max speed on any of the BBS mid drives in the control panel.
I was 13 in 1968 so we are only 5 years apart, funnily enough I couldn't get on with derailleur gears either and also used a sturmey archer 3 speed hub.
Im going to look in more detail at the IGH that you have mentioned, to be honest this has given me a much needed spark of interest. Im currently in the Philippines but am coming home early 2017, its great that I found this forum with some great people here.
Once I am back I will be test riding and then also make a decision on crank vs hub, off the shelf or kit.
This is a bafang maxdrive with hub gear the boys from brightonebikes sent it to me, they also build they seem very professional.
Again thank you so much for your input.
Andy
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Thanks D8ve, I kinda did not get that a cross very well, I was sort of comparing to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha, with the Bafang Max Drive being more of an OEM type unit, unlike the Bafang 8fun CD drives, which all though are very good, are a bit of a lash up in comparison to a CD motor that is designed to fit into a specific mid drive frame, and not dangling of the BB that was never first intended to have an electric motor fitted.
I also wonder why, Bosch and Yamaha etc equipped bikes, do not allow for the speed to be changed from the control panel, after all if a PIN number is required to do so, then it is at the owners risk if they alter the speed setting, also there would be no need to faff around with a dongle.
I also wonder why, Bosch and Yamaha etc equipped bikes, do not allow for the speed to be changed from the control panel, after all if a PIN number is required to do so, then it is at the owners risk if they alter the speed setting, also there would be no need to faff around with a dongle.
Hi combining two of your postings together, and restricting comments to the Bosch unit . According to a technical data sheet, on another website the Bosch active line unit specified at 250 w has a max rotational speed of 100 rpm and a max torque of 50 nm this would in theory give it a power of 523w . According to the same data sheet it's maximum power is 400w. The difference presumably being controlled electronically.
The Bosch has an internal gearbox. The pedal power is coupled to the chain sprocket by a 2:1 ratio speed up and the chain sprocket is a much smaller diameter than usual. Approx 24 teeth.
Bosch would be extremely unlikely to facilitate hacking of their product. They deal only with OEM s , they have an excellent reputation and charge a whopping premium for this reputation and seeing what has happened with VW would be even more reluctant.
Their product adheres so closely to both the letter and the spirit of the EU directive that they probably had a part in crafting it. There is discussion on another website about making safety norms of linking battery chargers to batteries to protect the consumer!!! So that only specifically purchased units will work together. Again this will play into the agenda of companies like Bosch.
The only hub gear I have used has been the SA model, so I will defer to your expert knowledge on its successors. However the derailleur type in current use is simple to use, and is a more efficient power transfer device. I do expect that it needs more replacement and periodic chain replacement.
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