20mph Speed Limit for Wales next year ?

[StuartsProjects]

20mph Limit for Wales

"Ministers say a 20mph speed limit will lower road collisions and traffic noise and encourage people to walk and cycle."

 

[Fordulike]

Just a shame 99% of drivers will take absolutely no notice of that speed limit, unless there's a speed camera on a particular stretch of road.

Plenty of 20mph speed zones up here and I've yet to witness anyone abide by them

 

[flecc]

In practice all speed limits mean the next 10 up is what is observed.

80 on motorways.

40 in 30 limits.

So it follows that 30 is the norm in 20 limits.

My London borough has been 20 limited for years now, but even the police routine patrol drivers treat it at just touching 30.
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[sjpt]

Plenty of 20mph speed zones up here and I've yet to witness anyone abide by them

Yes, but they still go slower than they would if it were nominally 30mph.

We should declare all speed limit signs to denote kph unless explicitly marked mph. That would give an immediate reduction in speed limits at minimal infrastructure cost. New signs could gradually be introduced in places where the speed in kph was agreed to be too slow.

 

[Fordulike]

Boris won't go for that, we've been Brexited.

Oh no, I forgot, the twat's not PM anymore

 

[StuartsProjects]

Yes, but they still go slower than they would if it were nominally 30mph.

Indeed, which is a good thing, from a cyclist perspective.

I also suspect that whilst lots of areas (including wales) have introduced some 20mph limits, observation is low since its often not so obvious when your half way through a 20mph zone what the limit actually is.

 

[flecc]

I also suspect that whilst lots of areas (including wales) have introduced some 20mph limits, observation is low since its often not so obvious when your half way through a 20mph zone what the limit actually is.

Our London borough swamped us with repeater signs and again at every junction, so no excuse here for not knowing it's 20 mph.

Many modern cars display the current limit on the dashboard, mine does. Below is photo I took some while ago within my 20 limit area, the car making that very clear to me:

 

[richtea99]

20mph is, dare I say it, too slow. Quite a few cruise controls don't work below 30mph (in my experience anyway), and the discipline to stay at/below 20mph manually is too great for the average driver to maintain for any distance.

If you're really serious about limiting speed, then add decent road-width sleeping policemen - that will do the trick. But leave a slot on the kerb edge for cyclists to zip through without getting whacked by the humps.

 

[flecc]

20mph is, dare I say it, too slow. Quite a few cruise controls don't work below 30mph (in my experience anyway), and the discipline to stay at/below 20mph manually is too great for the average driver to maintain for any distance.

Agreed, it can be hard work maintaining too slow a speed in i.c. cars, even 30 in some is far from easy to keep to. Could be self solving problem though, since it's very easy in e-cars given the precision of their control. I can easily maintain any speed in mine, even fractions of one mph

If you're really serious about limiting speed, then add decent road-width sleeping policemen - that will do the trick. But leave a slot on the kerb edge for cyclists to zip through without getting whacked by the humps.

Some cars make them look useless though. A Fiat Tipo I had in the 1990s was uncomfortable over them at 20 but I noticed better when travelling faster. So I experimented and found that it was best at around 40mph, shrugging them off as if they weren't there.
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[trevor brooker]

20mph is, dare I say it, too slow. Quite a few cruise controls don't work below 30mph (in my experience anyway), and the discipline to stay at/below 20mph manually is too great for the average driver to maintain for any distance.

If you're really serious about limiting speed, then add decent road-width sleeping policemen - that will do the trick. But leave a slot on the kerb edge for cyclists to zip through without getting whacked by the humps.

When driving a ICV using gears with a analogue speedometer it is difficult to maintain a specific speed but that will soon change - new cars now will provide a warning about the speed limit.

The perception might be that the speed is too slow but the reality during the day is that any congestion, traffic lights, roundabouts etc will decrease speed, so that by maintaining a lower speed you will arrive at the same time. I see this every time I am overtaken in a 40mph stretch that lasts for 2 miles, as I overtake all of them within the next 3 holdups (traffic lights etc).

Sleeping policemen do not work to stop speeding - I have them outside the front of my house & everyday I hear someone's exhaust banging against it as the car is driven at speed over the top or they just go up onto the pavement. Its just the law abiding who slow down.

Also road humps are uncomfortable to those with certain disabilities plus cause discomfort to ambulance patients etc.

My take is why not have a variable speed limit, applied like on Bus lanes, so that is 20mph from say 6am to 8pm them 30mph overnight.

That way when the majority of users are about & the average speed is already low you stop harsh acceleration & braking but at night with virtually no traffic you allow a higher speed.

 

[Benjahmin]

I t seems that Welsh councils are to be given the final say on roads in their area.
Near me the is one stretch of nearly straight road with variable spread out housing or none, sometimes street lights, patches with none and about 5 miles long. It's all 30mph. There are pavements, which are invariably empty and visability is good with only a couple of T junctions. It's an A road (such as they are round here) but most would consider it quiet.
As there are not regular street lamps there are 30mph repeaters every 8 seconds, as are required. To change this lot to 20 (and they probably will) will cost a fortune. But that's ok 'cos Ceredigion obviously has money to burn.
They've said it will cost about 3.5 million nationally - jeez

 

[StuartsProjects]

Good news.

The imposition of a standard default 20mph limit on 'restricted' roads has just been approved in Wales and will come into effect next year.

 

[richtea99]

Forget 20mph - let's drop it to 15.5mph, and then fit bicycles with red flags to indicate that horseless carriages may not pass. Do I win?

 

[matthewslack]

I like to think that the perception of 'too slow' and being overtaken by bicycles might slowly help the penny drop for some people, and allow them to realise what a bike or ebike can do for them.

 

[flecc]

I like to think that the perception of 'too slow' and being overtaken by bicycles might slowly help the penny drop for some people, and allow them to realise what a bike or ebike can do for them.

Wishful thinking. Their penny has already dropped, knowing what a car does for them. Keeps them warm when it's cold, dry when it's wet. Carries all their groceries and other bulky shopping, plus recycling to the council depot. Takes the kids to and from school, college, gyms and sports fields. Carries immediate family, other relatives and friends on essential journeys and leisure trips. Keeps all of them them much safer and protected in any collision.

We've built a car culture and trying to undo that is proving nigh on impossible, as London has shown. We have a congestion charge and ultra low emision zone charges making car driving horribly expensive. We've spent countless millions on cycling facilities and regular cycling has enormously increased. But it's still under 5% of the population, and as the GLC ruefully comment, three-quarters of them fit young men, so not exactly getting drivers out of cars.

After all those changes and expense, the real winner hasn't been cycling, it's been public transport. Our bus fleet for example has doubled from 4,500 to over 9,000. East London now has the automated Docklands Light Railway. South London now has a tram network and Crossrail has opened. Surface rail now has some longer platforms and new longer trains to suit

That's all good of course, much better than rush hour roads choked with cars, but it hasn't got rid of any cars, just some of their commuting usage.
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[RoadieRoger]

Car Drivers here are already moaning that they will be overtaken by Cyclists . No doubt they will be repeating the usual mantra about Cyclists not having tax , insurance , number plates ,cycle profiency testing and anything else that they can come up with .

 

[Nealh]

Drivers who have to pay are doing so as a previlege to keep on polluting, there bleating of how cycles pay nothing don't have a cause or even a leg to stand on with their whimsical grizzles.

 

[StuartsProjects]

What I have noticed in the last few weeks is that observance of the 20mph limit (as default on all urban roads) is getting better in my area.

With the addition of the recent publicity about passing distances for cyclists, you have less of that 'your in a jet stream' feeling as a car whizzes past doing 15-20mph more than you on a cycle are doing.

 

[flecc]

What I have noticed in the last few weeks is that observance of the 20mph limit (as default on all urban roads) is getting better in my area.

With the addition of the recent publicity about passing distances for cyclists, you have less of that 'your in a jet stream' feeling as a car whizzes past doing 15-20mph more than you on a cycle are doing.

Good to learn that. My borough has been 20 limit for several years now ande the biggest improvement over time hasn't been in strict observance of the 20 mph. It's been in road manners, lots more courtesy and giving way than there ever used to be. Abuse of others on the roads which was very common 20 or so years ago just doesn't exist any more, most seem to have much more time for each other.
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[Plas man]

Not cycles but ... thinking back to the 1950s (growing up) all heavy goods and bus’s carried a 20 mph disc on the rear of the vehicle , with the upgrading of trunk roads and new-motorways he law was amended as 1960 approached to 40 mph , and the nation was amass with cycling clubs .