20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?

[Cyclezee]

Pope Dave or David?

I don't know if many of you heard the Sunday programme presented by Edward Sturton on BBC Radio 4 earlier this morning, but there was a discussion about the forthcoming election of a new pontiff.

Apparently there are couple of new candidates for the position and surprisingly they are both English. There names are Dave and David

Somewhat prematurely, there was also talk of a new Saint Tony of Fleccia, the patron of electric bicycles

I do hope this announcement does not lead to my excommunication

 

[jazper53]

Thank God I am C of E , and Henry VIII

 

[Cyclezee]

Thank God I am C of E , and Henry VIII

In that case I hope your majesty has a good strong bike

I always thought David bore a sticking resemblance to Henry VIII, I do hope you are not a pretender Jazper, look what happend to several of his wives and Thomas Moore etc.

 

[jazper53]

In that case I hope your majesty has a good strong bike

I always thought David bore a sticking resemblance to Henry VIII, I do hope you are not a pretender Jazper, look what happend to several of his wives and Thomas Moore etc.

Beats A messy divorce, and expensive settlement

 

[jackhandy]

I do hope this announcement does not lead to my excommunication

No, surely not - the mods wouldn't do that to a trade member

 

[Kudoscycles]

Yeah this Type Approval on self-builds is not good, but if they make it simple and it's not far to take your bike, I don't mind paying a reasonable fee just to get it done locally somewhere.

Heh, no doubt some people will take bike A for approval, and get the bit of paper, and ride bike version B that's not approved. Unless they fit some plate or mark on the bike or something, how will they know.

Well as you say, the future is yet to be determined and the way things are going this could all be academic if the UK's relationship with EU substantially changes or we leave, either of which looks possible.

And even if this law goes ahead, as David said..it won't affect the majority of us who have already bought or built our bikes..there's still at least 3 or 4 years yet too and probably a grace period after that too once the law comes into effect? So build your dream bike ;-)

Unfortunately the government have indicated that it intends to cut back the number of SVA centres in the UK. There will only be a small number of self build ebikes that require testing so this will not be a reason to expand the network.
If you google 'SVA-kit car' you will find the list of centres,you may be lucky and have one near you.
My experience with SVA testers is they vary widely from flexible guys who will help to pedantic guys who are jobsworth types who will look to fail the vehicle on the smallest detail-getting a kit car through is expensive and not easy. However a bike is a smaller unit it must have less technical points upon which to fail.
I suspect that most won't bother and go and buy a type approved production bike-in the kit car world the bigger guys(Westfield,Caterham,Atom) are almost an automatic pass if you dont stray too far from standard build,its the one off builders that struggle to get through,with many revisits.
KudosDave

 

[funkylyn]

I don't know if many of you heard the Sunday programme presented by Edward Sturton on BBC Radio 4 earlier this morning, but there was a discussion about the forthcoming election of a new pontiff.

Apparently there are couple of new candidates for the position and surprisingly they are both English. There names are Dave and David

Somewhat prematurely, there was also talk of a new Saint Tony of Fleccia, the patron of electric bicycles

I do hope this announcement does not lead to my excommunication

Oh god how I would love the opportunity to sort that lot out......new pontiff indeed......black smoke whilst voting......for gods sake get real, sort their own horrendous frailties out before trying to tell the rest of us what to do, makes my blood boil

Lady Lynda of Leisure Cycling and Pontiff Bashing .......I hope I DO get excommunicated....... hahahahaha

 

[Wisper Bikes]

First and foremost I must say I dont like trade bodies, which whilst at conception have clear aims to benefit the industry but always grow into self interest,within the motorsport industry the MIA(motorsport industries association) is a classic example.

Thanks for putting your cards on the table Dave, now I understand your position.

I am absolutely sure however that Government will listen to a trade body with more interest than they would an individual company. As the electric bike industry is still finding it's feet in the UK surely it is sensible to have a voice now and try and shape the rules to which we will all be required to work rather than moan about unfair laws and restrictions after they have come into force?

Although I see you agree with a good number of the clauses within the BEBA code of practice I understand that there are some points that you take exception too and as I have said repeatedly we would be delighted to discuss with anyone interested in becoming involved.

Although I don't believe it would be efficient to go through all the BEBA clauses here, I should correct you on one important point. To become a full member of BEBA, a business does not have to hold one of the BEBA Members' bikes, that would be totally restrictive. This particular clause only applies to retail members. The thinking behind it is that it supports the clause that members should agree that BEBA can work as a mediator between the end user and retailer if there was an insurmountable problem between them. If the manufacturer or distributor of the bike in question was not a full member it would be impossible to reach an agreement between the parties involved in any such dispute. Despite your reservations on the mediation service that BEBA provides, you would be surprised how effective it has been thus far with most issues that have been raised by the consumer. Having a non emotional third party involved in any dispute is always helpful and certainly gives confidence to the customer. BEBA's opinion in these cases is not binding the Association is simply there as a mediator.

There certainly may be clauses within the BEBA code of practice that need to be revisited, and that is precisely why we have invited distributors and manufactures to talk to us regarding any barriers to entry. Maybe the cloning clause is ill perceived, and if the majority of members want it deleted or changed then of-course it would be. I don't think it would be useful do discuss the cloning of the Wisper frame any further I believe everyones views are fully documented already. I should point out that Oxygen are full and highly valued BEBA member and there is no problem between Oxygen and Wisper whatsoever.

David, although you would be welcome to apply for BEBA membership, I understand your position regarding trade associations and would not try to change your mind further. We will carry on representing as effectively as we can, the views of those within BEBA others through surveys whenever possible, and would welcome all and any applications or suggestions from outside the association.

Best regards

David

 

[Cyclezee]

Our prayers are with you sister Lynda of the immaculate conception.......and knitted garments.

So sorry, devine intervention came between your post and mine

 

[funkylyn]

Our prayers are with you sister Lynda of the immaculate conception.

Thankyou so much Brother John of Red Bull........

LL

 

[Kudoscycles]

Oh god how I would love the opportunity to sort that lot out......new pontiff indeed......black smoke whilst voting......for gods sake get real, sort their own horrendous frailties out before trying to tell the rest of us what to do, makes my blood boil

Lady Lynda of Leisure Cycling and Pontiff Bashing .......I hope I DO get excommunicated....... hahahahaha

No its not me! although 'Pope David the first' does have a good ring to it,not sure about wearing those silly hats and all this abstinance stuff,I only bat for the straight team so that could be a cv problem!
However,there could be some upsides....the Vatican looks a nice pad,I understand the Pope pays no tax,I love Italian food and wine and......(.censored by Russ)
Dave
Kudoscycles,by papal appointment.

 

[funkylyn]

So sorry, devine intervention came between your post and mine

Nothing new there then........

LL

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David, if a manufacturer (or small business that converts bikes) sells e-bikes to the public obviously intended for use on the roads, is there any legal responsibility on manufacturers/bike builders at present to ensure the e-bikes meet the current legal guidelines?

If it's voluntary, how many manufacturers actually put their bike models through the test, and is it a costly and complicated business?

If it's neither compulsory nor voluntary at this stage, is the law likely to change and the industry likely to face regulation which will require mandatory compliance testing in future?

Hi Morphix,

As far as I understand, all electric bikes should currently meet the UK legislation, i.e. 200W and 15mph etc. whether made by an individual or a business. However the DfT have intimated that there will not be a Witch hunt conducted against people who sell or use bikes on the road in the UK that conform with EU standards namely EN15194. Meeting EN15194 is again as far as I understand is currently voluntary and you can self certify. To put a bike through EN15194 certification in Europe would cost about €10,000.

If you need any further information please give me a call.

I hope this is of assistance to you.

All the best

David

 

[Cyclezee]

Thankyou so much Brother John of Red Bull........

LL

I much prefer being addressed as your Lordship, please remember that when addressing me lowly wench.

I do have strong family connection with the aristocracy, by rights and but for a 'cock up', I should be the Duke of Buccleuch and my home should be Drumlanrig Castle.

Is it me, or has this thread gone a little off topic and am I really a delusional schizophrenic

 

[flecc]

Well as you say, the future is yet to be determined and the way things are going this could all be academic if the UK's relationship with EU substantially changes or we leave

Leaving the EU probably wouldn't make any difference. That wouldn't happen before the e-bike law changes and we have precedent with Norway. They left the EU but for convenience and trading advantage they kept almost all of their EU measures in place, including the strict EU pedelec law. I've no doubt our government of the day would do the same for the same two reasons and unravelling the EU laws would be too immense a task to contemplate.

 

[Shroppielass]

No its not me! although 'Pope David the first' does have a good ring to it,not sure about wearing those silly hats and all this abstinance stuff,I only bat for the straight team so that could be a cv problem!
However,there could be some upsides....the Vatican looks a nice pad,I understand the Pope pays no tax,I love Italian food and wine and......(.censored by Russ)
Dave
Kudoscycles,by papal appointment.

I don't know Dave. There would be sacrifices, but you could provide your own ebike alternative to the popemobile. Think of the thousands of people you could convert....to ebikes.
A great sales opportunity surely? It could be just what the ebike industry needs.

 

[Cyclezee]

However,there could be some upsides....the Vatican looks a nice pad,I understand the Pope pays no tax,I love Italian food and wine and......(.censored by Russ)
Dave
Kudoscycles,by papal appointment.

Excuse me your holiness, I thought for minute you were going to say "and children".

I quite like children, but I couldn't eat a whole one, not even with bolognese sauce

 

[Cyclezee]

OK, before anybody gets upset, I have now taken my medication and will shut up.

 

[funkylyn]

I much prefer being addressed as your Lordship, please remember that when addressing me lowly wench.


Is it me, or has this thread gone a little off topic and am I really a delusional schizophrenic

Of course your Lordship, as you know, I am not averse to being lowly at times......

As for "off topic and a delusional schizophrenic".......whatever gave you that idea ROFLMAO

( join the club....Papal Dave, Lady Lynda, Saint Tony of Flecc, King wisper the 8th,Jazper the Pretender, mind you, Ive got Flu cabin fever to blame for all this craziness lol

Right, lets behave ourselves .... this is a serious subject and I so hate to pee people off on a sunday )

LL

 

[morphix]

Leaving the EU probably wouldn't make any difference. That wouldn't happen before the e-bike law changes and we have precedent with Norway. They left the EU but for convenience and trading advantage they kept almost all of their EU measures in place, including the strict EU pedelec law. I've no doubt our government of the day would do the same for the same two reasons and unravelling the EU laws would be too immense a task to contemplate.

Well the Tories have promised a referendum fairly soon if they win the next election and there's a lot of pressure for this to be an in/out referendum, although Cameron is not in favour of that... but granted, that is a big IF when it comes to the Tories winning an election.. I guess it depends how well the coalition performs between now and then and whether their economic policies get the UK economy back on track.. Labour is giving very mixed signals on the EU membership question.. they say they're not in favour of UK leaving but they say they want a simpler in/out referendum, but would they risk letting the public decide that when the mood seems to be increasingly anti-EU? Now Cameron has made his stance on the referendum more clear, the other two parties will have to adopt a position and support an EU referendum in their election manifestos I imagine, else risk being out of touch with the public.

Cameron has a habit of doing u-turns and doing the opposite to what he says, so even if they won the next general election probably in 2015, we could find the referendum is merely to vote on whether a different type of relationship with the EU is acceptable. Then our ministers would go back to Europe and negotiate further if the public didn't support it.

This process could take years and take us well past the 2016 law change date, so you're right, it looks like that law could well come into effect, even if the UK does ultimately end up unable to negotiate a new membership arrangement and an exit from EU happens.

The one question though is the referendum on Scotland's independence which is going to happen before then, probably next year. This could change the political landscape completely and cause Westminster to bring the referendum for the whole of the UK forward before the next election possibly, and there is growing pressure from the Lib Dem and Labour for that, because the uncertainty over our future with the EU is not good, the longer it goes on... it's putting foreign investment into Britain and trade agreements at risk.