20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?

[KirstinS]

Blanket 20mph speed limit coming to Brighton and they started painig the road markings today

Try as I might I have failed to find an answer to the following

1) Does the speed limit apply to bicycles? And is there any change when

on the road just like all the motor vehicles
On the road but in a cycle lane
Off the road but on a designated cycle path

2) If it does apply to bicycles what sanctions can be applied ? A small fine ? A large fine ? The taking of the first born ?

Now local plod have said they wont enforce it and so its easy to apply a common sense approach. However, what I really want to know is the hard position in law

Anybody got any insight ? I feel it is especially relavent for ebikes as, given assistance to 15.5pmh, it is fairly easy to break the 20mph limit if you are a relatively fit rider or going downhill.

I have serached this site and the webbernet but failed to find anything that could be considered an evidenced view

Thanks
Kirstin

 

[jazper53]

'The 20mph limits will be enforced in the same way that the 30mph has been'. whatever that means because the police said they won't enforce the 20mph limit, sounds all a bit confusing, as the 20mph limit is self enforcing ????? maybe I could give myself a Ticket

 

[smudger1956]

Very good revenue raiser is the 20mph limit, under the guise of 'Road Safety'. Spend more time looking at your speedometer than the road ahead....
I have a few of Lizzies parks in my local, the 20mph limit is rigorously enforced, cyclists get caught out on a daily basis.

 

[morphix]

Blanket 20mph speed limit coming to Brighton and they started painig the road markings today

Try as I might I have failed to find an answer to the following

1) Does the speed limit apply to bicycles? And is there any change when

on the road just like all the motor vehicles
On the road but in a cycle lane
Off the road but on a designated cycle path

2) If it does apply to bicycles what sanctions can be applied ? A small fine ? A large fine ? The taking of the first born ?

Now local plod have said they wont enforce it and so its easy to apply a common sense approach. However, what I really want to know is the hard position in law

Anybody got any insight ? I feel it is especially relavent for ebikes as, given assistance to 15.5pmh, it is fairly easy to break the 20mph limit if you are a relatively fit rider or going downhill.

I have serached this site and the webbernet but failed to find anything that could be considered an evidenced view

Thanks
Kirstin

Well if the speed limit is enforced by local authority/police, then surely it would be apply to cyclists as well as motorists, since all of the highway code applies to cyclists when riding on the road. However I imagine there would be some leeway with cyclists, if you didn't have any speedometer on your bike for example and were just pedalling hard and went a bit over the limit you would be excused maybe...but if you had an e-bike that let you go faster than 20mph and/or you had a speedometer, that would be a different matter.

If you're cycling 20mph on a path you're probably going to get nicked for riding without due care and attention for pedestrians (or whatever the legal term is).

As for cycle lanes, if it's on a road..the road speed limit would apply I think... but if it's a dedicated cycle line on a path.. then i think the above would apply..riding without due and care attention possibly.

I do know (as has been discussed recently) that the police now have new powers to issue cyclists with fixed penalty notice fines for riding on footpaths or riding without due and care attention. However the police have been advised to use their discretion and common sense when issuing these notices..sometimes its safer or necessary for a cyclists to mount a pavement etc.

 

[GaRRy]

As I understand it on the Queens Highways a cyclist can not be charged with speeding. (I think there is some form of peddeling furiously offence but think its been along time since its been used)

As for in parks and other places it all depends on the local byelaws (eg in a lot of parks it is a offence to cycle at all).

 

[morphix]

As I understand it on the Queens Highways a cyclist can not be charged with speeding. (I think there is some form of peddeling furiously offence but think its been along time since its been used)

As for in parks and other places it all depends on the local byelaws (eg in a lot of parks it is a offence to cycle at all).

That pedalling furiously thing, I think that's what I meant by riding without care or attention or riding recklessly.. that's probably the offence they would apply if you were going too fast. I've heard of people being done for this.

The problem is, an e-bike is a different category than normal bicycle eh. I can foresee problems here if someone had an e-bike and got clocked by the plod going faster than the legal limit under power. It might land you in a bit of bother if it doesn't comply with the EU/UK law on motor and speed restriction etc like someone else on here who recently got their bike took by the police who said it was an illegal road vehicle.

 

[jazper53]

Maybe there should be a legal requirement to have a speedometer otherwise one could plead not-guilty due to ignorance

 

[morphix]

Maybe there should be a legal requirement to have a speedometer otherwise one could plead not-guilty due to ignorance

Yeah you're right. How are we to know what speed we're doing else eh? It's just impossible to know if you're breaking the law or not unless you just pedalled much slower/reduced power when you see 20mph signs. But if the speed limit does not apply as Garry said, then we're ok, but I'd just be wary and not push your luck if you have an e-bike that's borderline legal or not legal at all.

 

[GaRRy]

This makes for interesting reading
Cycling and the law - Bikehub - http://www.bikehub.co.uk

Confusing or what !!!

Almost as bad as which ebikes are legal

Here is the section on speeding

SPEED LIMITS DO NOT APPLY TO CYCLISTS

Possessing and propelling a vehicle equipped with an engine confers more responsibilities in law but not any greater rights. Many commenters to newspapers and online forums complain that cyclists travel too slowly and impede the progress of motorists. These commenters may be surprised to learn that cyclists share no legal obligation to adhere to speed limits. Speed limits on motor vehicles were introduced in 1903 in order to protect members of the public from the harm that can be done by excessive speed made possible by engines. The speed limit in 1903 was set at 20mph; this limit was routinely breached by early motorists. In 1934 the speed limit in towns was set at 30mph.

Not then and not since have any laws been enacted to make cyclists adhere to the speeding regulations brought in for motorised vehicles.

Rule 124 of the currently in force Highway Code states speed limits on a tabulated panel, but there is no row that applies to bicycles.

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states:

“It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.” (RTRA 81.1)

And

“A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.” (RTRA 89.1)

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 allows for speed limits to be imposed by local acts, but has never been used to impose speed limits on cyclists.

The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 “vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road.

While, technically, cyclists do not have to adhere to speed limits, in practice it is most sensible and safe to do so. Cyclists who breach the speed limit may not be prosecuted for a speeding offence but, as stated above, can be prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious driving.”

 

[GaRRy]

The problem is, an e-bike is a different category than normal bicycle

Nope a legal ebike is in law the same as any other bike (As for what constitutes a legal ebike is another mattter already done to death on here )

 

[flecc]

The problem is, an e-bike is a different category than normal bicycle eh.

No it's not, an e-bike is a bicycle in UK and EU law, not in any way a motor vehicle. There is no separate category for e-bikes, since the basic law for e-bikes/pedelecs is in the form of an exemption from motor vehicle law.

As for the Brighton speed limit, it depends on whether that regulation is motor vehicle law as most UK speed limits are. If it is motor vehicle law, and it probably is, it doesn't apply to bicycles or e-bikes, but of course the latter must comply with the law on e-bikes. If in any way an e-bike doesn't comply with e-bike/pedelec law, the speed limit will apply. Most of our e-bikes don't comply.

N.B. Crossed with Garry's post.
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[morphix]

No it's not, an e-bike is a bicycle in UK and EU law, not in any way a motor vehicle. There is no separate category for e-bikes, since the basic law for e-bikes/pedelecs is in the form of an exemption from motor vehicle law.

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Yes legally speaking, but I mean from a practical point of view... the police are still not fully clued on e-bikes in many areas it seems and some will stop you as a matter of routine...if they're out with speed guns and someone whizzes past on an electric bike (clearly under power) and going faster than the 20mph speed limit... you know what the plod are like... if they're bored they might just come after you, pull you over and decide whether you have a legally compliant e-bike or an unregistered electric vehicle. That's what happened to the other chap on the forum wasn't it basically and they took his bike off him. I know some people on this forum are borderline legal and some are definitely not legal, so common sense would seem to apply around these 20mph limits, especially if the old bill are on the scene.. if you have a 100% legal e-bike then probably have nothing to worry about eh.

 

[103Alex1]

Probably OK if you don't go and upload evidence of speeding on an eBike on Strava (seeing as 100% legal eBikes are something rarely seen on British roads) :

41 mph? The Evidence Against the Sunday Times Article | VeloViewer Blog - Your Strava Dashboard

 

[jazper53]

Probably OK if you don't go and upload evidence of speeding on an eBike on Strava (seeing as 100% legal eBikes are something rarely seen on British roads) :

41 mph? The Evidence Against the Sunday Times Article | VeloViewer Blog - Your Strava Dashboard

KirstinS is in trouble then, as his strava recorded a speed of 325mph last week

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13827-325mph-my-8fun-250w-kit.html

 

[GaRRy]

the police are still not fully clued on e-bikes in many areas it seems and some will stop you as a matter of routine...if they're out with speed guns and someone whizzes past on an electric bike (clearly under power) and going faster than the 20mph speed limit... you know what the plod are like... if they're bored they might just come after you, pull you over and decide whether you have a legally compliant e-bike or an unregistered electric vehicle. That's

Ahh but if you are travelling over 20 mph (clearly under power) you are definately not riding a legal ebike and so they should pull you over for far more serious offences than speeding.

 

[morphix]

Ahh but if you are travelling over 20 mph (clearly under power) you are definately not riding a legal ebike and so they should pull you over for far more serious offences than speeding.

True enough.

 

[flecc]

if you have a 100% legal e-bike then probably have nothing to worry about eh.

Indeed, limitations of choice though.

Put a Heinzmann legal motor kit (200 watt rated) into a normal bike and that's near enough, just the frame label missing but no police force would prosecute that.

Next best is an EU legal pedelec like the Kalkhoff models and many others, though in a very rare case one might have to engage BEBA or the DfT direct to prevent a prosecution pending the 2016 change in the law.
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[morphix]

Ahh but if you are travelling over 20 mph (clearly under power) you are definately not riding a legal ebike and so they should pull you over for far more serious offences than speeding.

My bike is one of those which is borderline I think.. the controller makes the bike road legal and restricts motor to 250W and the speed to 15.5mph etc, but the motor has a 350W label on it and as the law stands, a bike can't be on the road with a 350W rated motor fitted to it? This is a topic we have done over many times on the forum and still seems to be a grey area.. if I were to get pulled, would the police say, ok his controller makes his bike compliant, or oh he's got a 350W motor so that bike is not compliant.

And how are the police going to determine all this at the road side eh? Will they even trust what the label says on a controller, or use the "if in doubt, seize the bike and take it down to the station for testing".

EDIT: I think my post crossed with flecc's and the answer is above basically... DIY'ers are taking the chances and exploiting the lack of any proper regulation/enforcement on the compliance plate thing..you'll be safer no doubt buying a bike from a manufacturer which provides compliance documentation etc you can wave at the police, else you will have to argue your case if they say its an unlicensed vehicle.

 

[amigafan2003]

We've had 20mph zones round hear for ages - I've never had a problem. Then again, the police don't seem fussed about enforcing the limit - cars still see to be going everywhere at 30mph+.

Anyhow - without a speedo how do I know I'm exceeding the speed limit?

 

[flecc]

My bike is one of those which is borderline I think.. the controller makes the bike road legal and restricts motor to 250W and the speed to 15.5mph etc, but the motor has a 350W label on it and as the law stands, a bike can't be on the road with a 350W rated motor fitted to it? This is a topic we have done over many times on the forum and still seems to be a grey area.. if I were to get pulled, would the police say, ok his controller makes his bike compliant, or oh he's got a 350W motor so that bike is not compliant.

And how are the police going to determine all this at the road side eh? Will they even trust what the label says on a controller, or use the "if in doubt, seize the bike and take it down to the station for testing".

They would probably seize the bike, since kit bikes intrinsically break the laws in many ways. They are never tested to the EN15194 standard or the BS standard if UK compliant. They have no frame plate giving the required details for UK compliant e-bikes. 250 watt ones often have independently acting throttles. Therefore having a 350 watt label on the motor is the least of your potential troubles.

N.B. Crossed with Morphix's edit
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