1-1-2016 Today's Change in the Law.

[HelenJ]

Still not sure I understand this: either the cycle is a motor vehicle and has to have a motor vehicle type approval, in which case Le1-A is the lowest available, or it's not a motor vehicle in which case no type approval is required. Where does this EPAC type approval come from?

The Dft told Pedelecs last year that twist and gos wouldn't be considered motor vehicles needing registration etc. but they would need type approval: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/twist-gos-require-type-approval-helmets-insurance-tax/

So I guess twist and gos with the ability to propel by throttle independently should really be referred to as something other than an EAPC whose primary aim is pedalling? A 'powered cycle' doesn't seem to help clarify that difference enough though.

Slightly separately, I emailed the VCA earlier to ask more on the steps manufacturers (or manufacturers' representatives) need to take to type approve twist & gos (L1e-A in the main but also s-ped L1e-B), asking if the National Small Series Type Approval (NSSTA) is relevant here, the production volume involved, plus the timescales from application to CoC (particularly if they're consulting on penalties for non-compliance with type approval shortly), costs and how technological advances on components are treated.

This is all new to me and I guess I won't be alone there. I basically asked for 'starters' information to share on here. I'm really hoping I won't be sent to various FAQ pages on their website so it'll be a useful starting point for those that need it. I'll let you know...

 

[flecc]

There is precedent of a sort in the European Recreational Craft Directive. This permits the use of home built boats without testing, but prohibits their sale within five years of construction. So I see use only by the constructor as a possibility. The bike is legal to use as approval is only required for registration and registration is not required to use a pedal cycle (careful here, motorcycles are also classed as "bicycles"), but not legal to sell and I don't see why that shouldn't affect second-hand sales.

I agree if it were ruled upon in some way as with boats, but at present there's no legal UK ruling of any sort on self builds with regard to Single Vehicle Approval.

Since with e-bikes EU law also has nothing to say on the matter within each country's boundaries, there can be no legal ruling.

I think we are probably best off as things stand. Self builds are not subject to type approval, so as long as a self build complies with the current UK usage law which doesn't include throttles on self builds, we're in the clear.
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[flecc]

The Dft told Pedelecs last year that twist and gos wouldn't be considered motor vehicles needing registration etc. but they would need type approval: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/twist-gos-require-type-approval-helmets-insurance-tax/

But since they've made no provision for SVA on self build EAPCs with throttles and they are not subject to type approval, at present they are not really ruled upon.

As the DfT themselves have admitted, these scenarios are only their understanding of the law and would need to be ruled upon by the courts for a final definition. In addition as I've shown earlier, their interpretation of the throttle issue is incorrect, and they have admitted that by since saying that it does not apply elsewhere in the EU. That's quite an indictment, considering that their statemnts on EAPC throttles have come from the International Vehicle Standards section!
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[anotherkiwi]

so we can keep the throttle until 1/1/2018.
What will happen if we vote to get out of the EU before that?

You go back to 12 mph and 200W

 

[flecc]

You go back to 12 mph and 200W

Fortunately the two upgrades have been written into UK law since 1983, 15 mph in 1988 and 15.5 mph and 250 watts in 2015.
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[anotherkiwi]

Fortunately the two upgrades have been written into UK law since 1983, 15 mph in 1988 and 15.5 mph and 250 watts in 2015.
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No, no, no! That was under pressure from the EU your government will be wanting to go back to roots! Back to the good old British laws from before the 1960's!

 

[flecc]

No, no, no! That was under pressure from the EU your government will be wanting to go back to roots! Back to the good old British laws from before the 1960's!

That would mean a full motorcycle licence, registration, number plate and insurance for an e-bike.

Oh, and in the UK, hanging, prison for gays and on the Isle of Man flogging of juveniles with a birch.

Ah, the good old days (not ).
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[VictoryV]

That would mean a full motorcycle licence, registration, number plate and insurance for an e-bike.

Oh, and in the UK, hanging, prison for gays and on the Isle of Man flogging of juveniles with a birch.

Ah, the good old days (not ).
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Suicide was a criminal act. If you failed to kill yourself you could be prosecuted and sent to prison. Furthermore with a conviction for attempted suicide you could never take out life insurance or endowment policies, a bank loan, or any loan agreement or mortgage FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! - This was repealed by the Suicide Act of 1961

Furthermore, if you did succeed to kill yourself and the coroner gave a verdict of "suicide" you could not be buried in hallowed ground i.e churchyard, which is why they usually gave the verdict "suicide whilst the balance of the mind was disturbed" then you could have a normal funeral. Where they buried "suicides" in non-hallowed ground I do not know

 

[shemozzle999]

Slightly separately, I emailed the VCA earlier to ask more on the steps manufacturers (or manufacturers' representatives) need to take to type approve twist & gos (L1e-A in the main but also s-ped L1e-B), asking if the National Small Series Type Approval (NSSTA) is relevant here, the production volume involved, plus the timescales from application to CoC (particularly if they're consulting on penalties for non-compliance with type approval shortly), costs and how technological advances on components are treated.

Looks like that avenue has been closed, quote from the recently updated (4th January 2016) webpage of the VCA:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/type-approval-for-mo.asp

Low volume/Small Series Manufacturers

Full EC whole vehicle type approval won't suit everyone, particularly those manufacturing vehicles in low numbers. There are no plans to introduce a Small Series scheme in the UK as there is already another route to approval in the UK, the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) scheme.

Manufacturers making just a single vehicle or very small numbers of a vehicle type may wish to use the MSVA scheme. The MSVA scheme is the least onerous approval route in terms of compliance but involves an individual inspection of each vehicle. This route to approval gives sales rights only within the UK, not automatically throughout the rest of Europe.

If it was allowed I believe 50 bikes at a time could have been approved.

 

[HelenJ]

Looks like that avenue has been closed, quote from the recently updated (4th January 2016) webpage of the VCA:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/type-approval-for-mo.asp

Yes I did see that categories M,N and O (NSSTA) were cars and trailers, so I raised that in my email. However just following up my Friday email on the phone now and while the person I got through to didn't have any knowledge of twist and gos, I was given another contact point so another email just been sent in that direction. Hopefully that will result in some information.

 

[Quarryjmiller]

Am I reading paragraph 1.2 of the DfT document properly:
Twist & Go up to 6kmh without pedalling is exempt and so acceptable without type approval?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Yes you are reading correctly. Why isn't it on all the German bikes? Because a throttle is just another thing hogging real estate on the handlebar, something else that can break and eating into profit margins!

 

[Ruadh495]

I agree if it were ruled upon in some way as with boats, but at present there's no legal UK ruling of any sort on self builds with regard to Single Vehicle Approval.

Since with e-bikes EU law also has nothing to say on the matter within each country's boundaries, there can be no legal ruling.

I think we are probably best off as things stand. Self builds are not subject to type approval, so as long as a self build complies with the current UK usage law which doesn't include throttles on self builds, we're in the clear.
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Thanks. That makes sense, at least to me. The regulations which came in on 1/1/16 apply to sales, but the law for road use in the UK remains the 1983 regulations as amended 2015 (250W, 15.5mph, no reference to power being cut when pedalling stops).

Therefore a new bike with a throttle can't be sold, but the user may install a throttle and use said bike (it becomes a conversion). The same with self-builds / conversions and personal imports from outside the EU. That way we conform to EU trade laws but keep our throttles.

That's in the UK only (England and Wales only?) Other EU members seem to have usage laws which are as simple as "must conform to EN..." Spain, for example.

Am I right? I'm not an expert, or a lawyer.

Roy

 

[flecc]

Thanks. That makes sense, at least to me. The regulations which came in on 1/1/16 apply to sales, but the law for road use in the UK remains the 1983 regulations as amended 2015 (250W, 15.5mph, no reference to power being cut when pedalling stops).

Therefore a new bike with a throttle can't be sold, but the user may install a throttle and use said bike (it becomes a conversion). The same with self-builds / conversions and personal imports from outside the EU. That way we conform to EU trade laws but keep our throttles.

That's in the UK only (England and Wales only?) Other EU members seem to have usage laws which are as simple as "must conform to EN..." Spain, for example.

Am I right? I'm not an expert, or a lawyer.

Roy

The position isn't crystal clear. If you use the link below and check pages 2 and 3, you'll see that type approval is needed and a mention is made that individuals can seek SVA for one offs.

So the DfT view is that one must seek single vehicle approval if an independent throttle is fitted and used on the road, but their view on this whole issue is an opinion as they admit.

The way I look at it is this. There's no need to apply any of this until 1st January 2018. By then the change in the law will be old news and its likely that there'll be no more attention paid the the minutiae of e-bikes than in the past. Also by then we may have full information of what the SVA requires and it may be so simple that there's no problem in obtaining it.

So we can just relax for two years meanwhile.

Link to information sheet.
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[Ruadh495]

The position isn't crystal clear. If you use the link below and check pages 2 and 3, you'll see that type approval is needed and a mention is made that individuals can seek SVA for one offs.

So the DfT view is that one must seek single vehicle approval if an independent throttle is fitted and used on the road, but their view on this whole issue is an opinion as they admit.

The way I look at it is this. There's no need to apply any of this until 1st January 2018. By then the change in the law will be old news and its likely that there'll be no more attention paid the the minutiae of e-bikes than in the past. Also by then we may have full information of what the SVA requires and it may be so simple that there's no problem in obtaining it.

So we can just relax for two years meanwhile.

Link to information sheet.
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But SVA is a motor vehicle procedure and so still not what we are looking for. I suppose an SVA inspection station could issue some kind of certificate of meeting the exemption requirements, but how would they identify the cycle it applied to?

Still as clear as mud....

 

[anotherkiwi]

By the serial number on the frame which is obligatory for the bicycle to be EN 15194 (it has to conform to the machinery directive which in turn requires a serial number engraved into the frame).

 

[flecc]

But SVA is a motor vehicle procedure and so still not what we are looking for. I suppose an SVA inspection station could issue some kind of certificate of meeting the exemption requirements, but how would they identify the cycle it applied to?

Still as clear as mud....

I agree, the DfT seem to think SVA accords with Type Approval to satisfy the EU. But that is bonkers, considering that they admit that their ruling that a throttle equipped pedelec is still an EAPC if type approved is not valid elsewhere in the EU.

If its not valid, which it certainly isn't, why try to meet EU requirements in the first place?!

They really are in state of total confusion on this issue, and I'm sure that they now deeply regret ever making that silly ruling that pedelecs with throttles could still be EAPCs if type approved.
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[Ruadh495]

By the serial number on the frame which is obligatory for the bicycle to be EN 15194 (it has to conform to the machinery directive which in turn requires a serial number engraved into the frame).

But where in UK legislation does it state that a bicycle must conform to EN15194 to be used on the road? (Or EN 14764 for that matter). Self builders and converters can't conform to these standards (can't do the testing) but that doesn't (shouldn't) prevent them using their bikes on the road. If it did this would be a lot bigger than just ebikes, it would affect anyone who builds or modifies any kind of cycle.

Come to think of it, the cycle we are talking about can't conform to EN15194, since it has a throttle, so it doesn't have to have a frame number either...

Of course a number could be an SVA (for want of a better term) requirement, but you would have an awful lot of machines marked 001. I don't believe there's a national register of bicycle frame numbers as there is with motor vehicle VIN numbers?

Unless the post 1/1/16 UK regulations do state EN15194? That would make sense, EN15194 (replacing 250W, 15.5mph etc which it encompasses) or "Type Approval / SVA" though they haven't sorted out what the process will be yet. In this case all electric cycles not conforming to EN15194 (ie all self-builds) would have to undergo SVA and this would also be required if an EN15194 bike were modified. Identification is still an issue.

 

[Ruadh495]

I agree, the DfT seem to think SVA accords with Type Approval to satisfy the EU. But that is bonkers, considering that they admit that their ruling that a throttle equipped pedelec is still an EAPC if type approved is not valid elsewhere in the EU.

If its not valid, which it certainly isn't, why try to meet EU requirements in the first place?!

They really are in state of total confusion on this issue, and I'm sure that they now deeply regret ever making that silly ruling that pedelecs with throttles could still be EAPCs if type approved.
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It that actually what they said? Or are they just offering to treat Le1-A as EPAC with respect to cycle lanes, helmets, licensing etc?

 

[shemozzle999]

Conversely, the EU's 1999 ill conceived regulation exempting electric bicycles without a hand based throttle, based on principles, which denies access to and without due consideration to millions of disadvantaged elderly citizens fundamental rights, which it was primarily supposed to assist - as healthy riders do not require assistance, has created the silly situation of placing the normal powered electric bicycles within the type approval system for motor vehicles along with the justifiable placement of the higher powered and higher speed electric bicycles.

If the above could be reversed by the EU Commission, who insisted on its inclusion despite representations to change it, it would resolve all the current problems and ensure the EAPC / EPAC would fulfill all the member states citizens who require this small additional assistance to maintain a eco friendly fit and health lifestyle into their old age without the fear of being outside the letter of the law.

Unfortunately, it appears that common sense no longer plays a part when composing these new regulations.