£2,000 toy fund - but what to spend it on ?

[MS666]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the help, questions, pointers ... and places to eat in Brighton (!?)

So answering the questions in order they were asked!

Kudos –
Not interested in Chinese products, i’ve had bad experiences in the past with one product or another. I’ve never been able to find quality with a Chinese products. But that’s just my opinion

Bike style
I don’t want panniers as i’m not going to be going long touring, so no need for the extra weight. I also don’t want the rolling resistance that mountain bike tyres would bring on tarmac surfaces. That said, mudguards would be a nice to have.

Storcker-
I hadn’t seen / considered storck before you mentioned them, but i have now (see end of the post!). Emotion neo cross – now added to the consideration list! I agree about the Woosh and Kudos, nothing there lighting my candle!

Jezz
The hibike looks nice (for a crank drive! ), but its more of an off road machine. The KTM’s doing nothing for me either

D8veh –
Good advice! Im about 14st but quite tall. I’m happy to go at the legal limit. Range – i take the ranges with a pinch of salt (much like the MPG on cars!). But id like to work towards 40miles. Comfort – I don’t want a sit up and beg position, In my younger days i used to be a decent cyclist so i’d like to get my fitness back and eventually want to be able to use a bike without the assistance, Or atleast moderate it.

Cyclezee –
I really don’t want a conversation kit, i think id have to settle for too many compromises. I also don’t like the idea of front motors, if my weights over the centre/rear and the power is coming from the front surely i’ll get wheel slip or torq steer through corners?

David – Wisper
From what i’ve read you’re a well respected member!
The wisper looks nice, i like the colour. What weight is it? Im not that fussed on the wider swept back bars. Is there another option?
For now it’s on my List

OxygenJames
Appreciate your efforts BUT i’m a big believer in supporting local / UK business. Not only from a support and warranty perspective, but also because i’d rather spend a little more and support a UK small business through tough economic times, than send the money abroad.

Juicybike
Sorry i don’t like the design the down tube crossing over the other at the front looks a bit funny (no offence ) , I prefer a more traditional triple triangle lay out.

I think that covers everything! So my current shopping list looks like ...

Emotion neo cross
Storck Raddar Multitask
Wisper 906 classic – Maybe

Next up i need to go try some bikes! First up im going to look at the Storck because 1) ive just found out they have a concept shop up the road from me and 2) i’ve seen on their website that they have an ex demo sale on so i might be lucky

Storck Raddar - Storck Raddar Electric Bikes - News - EX DEMO EBIKE SALE - Prices from £1,999

I just need to find some local dealers to try the other 2.

I’ll let you know my progress.

Thanks

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Mike,

Some interesting comments.

There are pros and cons to front and rear drive. With a front motor you have in effect 2 wheel drive.

If you prefer rear drive, eZee have that too eZee Forza Mk2 - electric bikes and conversion kits


With regard to Chinese bikes, they vary greatly in quality and should not all be considered inferior.

There are also brands that may appear on the surface to be European, but are in fact of Chinese and Far Eastern origin.

It is also the case that bikes that are manufactured or assembled in Europe have a very high percentage of Chinese and Taiwanese content.

There is a great deal of choice and I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

From what you said above, I think that the Storck Multitask will be perfect for you. The Neos are better if you're heavy or have a lot of steep hills to climb.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi MS666,

Firstly thanks for your kind comments!

The Multitask from Storck is a great bike and at £1,999.00 a good price definitely worth trying, and I know Ian will look after you well. The Wisper Classic is heavier at 25Kg (All in) and not quite as nimble but more powerful more of a cruiser. The 16Ah battery has a massive 594Wh which accounts for a lot of the extra weight which will give you good range and more importantly a good 20 miles in it's sweet spot giving you maximum torque. We can offer a lighter version but that is at the cost of reducing the 16Ah battery to a more standard 11Ah version.

I am sure there would be no problem changing the handle bars for a straighter version.

Most important, try both or all three bikes before you buy, they offer very different riding experiences.

All the best and good luck with your choice.

David

 

[RobF]

From what you said above, I think that the Storck Multitask will be perfect for you. The Neos are better if you're heavy or have a lot of steep hills to climb.

Agreed.

More or less everything is right about the Storck for the OP.

He knows a decent bike when he sees one, the Storck is certainly that, it is beautifully made and finished.

I reckon it's about a £750 hybrid with a motor, as opposed to many ebikes which are £250 bikes with a motor.

The OP wants to support local business - the importer is based a few miles up the road in Gateshead.

The OP wants to progress to riding unassisted - the Storck is the only ebike I've seen where it would make some sense to have a spare, unpowered wheel and tyre and swap them about.

Power might not be the Storck's strongest point, but the OP doesn't seem too concerned about that, and a test ride will soon tell him.

The only fly in the ointment might be the tyres, the OP mentioned fast running, but the Storck comes with balloon Schwalbe Big Apples - not that I know how fast they run.

 

[flecc]

The only fly in the ointment might be the tyres, the OP mentioned fast running, but the Storck comes with balloon Schwalbe Big Apples - not that I know how fast they run.

The Big Apples appearance is deceptive, they run quite freely and Schwalbe make a point about the width versus narrowness running in their general publicity.

 

[RobF]

The Big Apples appearance is deceptive, they run quite freely and Schwalbe make a point about the width versus narrowness running in their general publicity.

Ah, fair enough.

And Storck seem to offer a customisation service, so I'm sure they'd fit more traditional bicycle tyres if that's what the OP wants.

 

[MS666]

From what you said above, I think that the Storck Multitask will be perfect for you. The Neos are better if you're heavy or have a lot of steep hills to climb.

thanks D8veh, I'm quite taken by the design of the Neo, jsut need to find somewhere to try one. I guess im lucky that Storck HQ is up the road, so im going to head intoday and see what they have in the sale

 

[MS666]

Agreed.

I reckon it's about a £750 hybrid with a motor, as opposed to many ebikes which are £250 bikes with a motor.

The OP wants to support local business - the importer is based a few miles up the road in Gateshead.

.

Thanks RobF

You've hit the nail on the head i want a quality bike first, then decent electric kit second. I want a really good quality bike, that can assist me.

It seems like a false economy to have an expensive high quality electric kit, but adding it to a cheap bike. Isnt that like sticking a ferrari engine into a reliant robin?

In terms of supporting local business, i dont just mean the importer. if i prefer the Neo and can find someone local that stocks them then i'll buy it from them instead of mail order or importing one. I feel the same way about my weekly food shopping or buying electrical items. The High street is on its Ar$e and i dont mind paying a little more to support business that are doing a good job. If everyone just changed one purchase they made regularly to a local business instead of mail order then the economy would be in a much better place ... Rant over

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Good afternoon Mike!

Reading through your requirements again, I would certainly recommend the Storck Multitask. The bike is based on a standard pedal bike, more of a conversion than a dedicated e-bike. I am sure as well that Trevor and Ian would be pleased to work with you on an exact specification and as RobF has already said, if you remove the battery and change the rear wheel for a non electric version, you practically have a standard pedal bike. And of course when you have finished with the Multitask, they would happily sell you a non powered replacement!!

In most cases, of course, I would highly recommend a Wisper, however in this case, I think you would be happier with a Storck, especially at that price!

All the best

David

 

[RobF]

In most cases, of course, I would highly recommend a Wisper, however in this case, I think you would be happier with a Storck, especially at that price!

David

Very fair, David.

After calling into Storck at Gateshead a few weeks ago for a look-see, I think the OP will enjoy the buying process.

Very agreeable experience, bikes nicely laid out and the young man who served me couldn't have been more obliging.

He offered a decent-length test ride, and as I mentioned earlier, customising the bike is no problem.

And have you seen the Storck catalogue?

It's hardbound book that looks more like a desk diary than a bike brochure.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Rob,

That would have been Trevor, yes a good chap and very knowledgable.

The Storck brochure is outstanding!

all the best, David

 

[Kudoscycles]

Ms666....whilst I am respectful of your comment 'not interested in chinese products'...you won't be buying a bike then for nearly all of the components and most of the frames come from China,its almost impossible to build a bike now without some input of Chinese parts.
One of the bikes at the top of your shopping list is 100% manufactured in Shanghai,I have the EN15194 certificates from SFS Shanghai to prove it,though I am sure the supplier gives the impression that it is European manufactured....some suppliers are less honest about the country of origin than others!!
Shimano parts are pretty much 100% manufactured in the PRC.
The problem with China is that there is a lot of rubbish coming out of that country,usually at prices that it is hard to see how they make a profit,despite the low labour rates. But there is some wonderful product also....I have alloy road wheels made in China,a life or death part on a rally,these wheels are 100% x-ray tested,manufactured from aircraft quality ally,to Lexus/Toyota quality levels and are 50% of the cost of the poorer quality UK manufactured part...my wheels are accepted as the best rally wheel available.
Similarly with the ebikes,I can buy an ebike out of China for $250....its ok,cheap gears,cheap wheels,cheap tyres....some Brits love a cheap deal,sell it on ebay for £499.00. But you can build a nice bike in China for a mid range price,as long as you buy in volume and closely monitor the build process.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

Not interested in Chinese products, i’ve had bad experiences in the past with one product or another. I’ve never been able to find quality with a Chinese products.

Having just heard on BBC radio that container loads of sausage skins derived from pigs are imported from China through Felixtowe port, you may be eating Chinese in a different way from what we usually understand.

That could be more worrying than riding a Chinese e-bike!

 

[jazper53]

I always wondered which is better value, cheap/mid-range Chinese bikes, which I have been a proud owner of for the last 10 months, with no problems either mechanically or electrically to date, or the expensive European models which may offer a better quality product, but IMHO are overpriced for what they add extra over Chinese Bikes, especially with speed and power restrictions

 

[Kudoscycles]

You may soon be riding a more safety critical chinese product than an ebike...
The chinese government has recently announced the launch of China Commercial Aircrafts,they aim by the year 2020 to have widebody jet airliners wholy designed and built in China.....I wonder whether they will still use Rolls Royce or GE engines?
Anybody who has travelled in China cannot fail to notice the expansion of airline routes and airports within China,normally served by old Airbus A320 or Boeing 737-800 (ex Easyjet or Ryanair perhaps),the market for their own plane must be enormous.
They already make bits for Boeing 747 and 787 and have an assembly line to assemble Airbus A320.
Its not well known that any company prefixed by China............,is wholy owned by the chinese government,there is no rule about this but no private company in China would ever conflict with that prefix.
Looks like Boeing and Airbus have some strong competition coming.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[banbury frank]

Hi MS666

Al our bikes are hand converted in the UK in Banbury If you want something Special come to Banbury for a test ride We recommend you look at Chain reactions the biggest on line retailer with discounts up to 50% you can chose from over 70 hard-tail bikes at good discount then we add one off our kits

Hardtail | Buy Now at ChainReactionCycles.com


Give Me a call we can run through your needs

 

[flecc]

I always wondered which is better value, cheap/mid-range Chinese bikes, which I have been a proud owner of for the last 10 months, with no problems either mechanically or electrically to date, or the expensive European models which may offer a better quality product, but IMHO are overpriced for what they add extra over Chinese Bikes, especially with speed and power restrictions

Very much like the car market, popular models at reasonable prices against premium brands at inflated prices that are difficult to justify on our widely speed restricted roads where effectively all models do a very similar job.

I've sometimes remarked that in practical terms all cars are only capable of 20 seconds to 60 mph, since that's the best the old Fiat Cinqucento at the front of the line can manage!

 

[flecc]

The chinese government has recently announced the launch of China Commercial Aircrafts,they aim by the year 2020 to have widebody jet airliners wholy designed and built in China.....I wonder whether they will still use Rolls Royce or GE engines?

Looks like Boeing and Airbus have some strong competition coming.

Indeed, though I'm sure it will be long time before they stop using Rolls Royce and GE for the jet engines. That is one of the most difficult technologies of all, with huge amounts of secrecy rather than patent protection, making learning the art very difficult. That's why the long established Pratt & Whitney struggle to keep up and are losing the main market and others like Gnome et Rhone/SNECMA have vanished from jet production.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Dave is absolutely correct, of course.

There is hardly anything that can be bought made up of many components that will not contain some Chinese parts, I am certain even top of the range Mercedes and BMW cars contain some Chinese made components. Our motors and frames amongst other parts are still made in China, by absolutely first class companies, we have never had any problems with them so why change?

The Chinese are excellent manufactures when they have the correct management in place. You only have to look at Apple or Olympus for example.

We chose to move assembly to Germany and to source more parts more locally than in the past because we were sure we would end up with a better more reliable product and benefit from reliable delivery dates when compared to the four factories we have used in the past. Having now received the pre-production samples we are delighted with the results. The actual assembly or bolting the parts together in Germany is so much better than we ever experienced in China. It is also much easier to pop over to the factory for a day or two to make a tweak or to speak to manufacturers and keep control of the manufacturing process. All that aside I strongly believe it is a good thing for the European economy that more and more companies start using our available local labour force. Although we are not all the way back in the UK yet this is a good and positive start!

Strangely the difference in price is not that dramatic. For example our new Classic range made in Germany, is being sold for exactly the same price as the Chinese SEL models from 2012 on which the bike is based. When we consider the savings in transport costs due to better utilisation of the available space in a container and parts that are made locally, added to lower duty on imports from Europe and the better efficiency of the German factories reducing the time it takes to build a bike the difference is minimal jut a few percent.

Having worked for seven years in China, I have to say in balance I am delighted to have made the move. Maybe it is not for everyone, the process was not as easy as one would imagine! And of course a lot of those who would like to make the move would have a problem if they don't own their tooling.

All the best

David