Yosepower hub kits.

[Nealh]

The controller from my YosePower kit is labelled "KT36ZWSR-EP01". I have always been interpreting "ZWSR" as square wave and "SVPRD", as in KT36/48SVPRD-17A, as sine wave.

I welcome any and all education

Both are hall sensor controllers.

36ZWSR even states Hall sensor next to the SPEED SET: on the right. Also has the universal 9 pin connector.
Caps are 50v rated so will not except more then 12s @ 4.1v to be safe.
I think all 36v kt start 36ZW.

36/48 SVPRD is dual voltage model with hall but with 3 separate phase wires and 6 wire hall block.
Caps are 63v rated so will except 13s 48v quite easily.

Square wave only have 3 thick phase wires and no thin halls.

 

[Nealh]

Trying to interpret the controller letter coding after the voltage number is all but impossible impossible to guess what they mean.
All you need to guide you as to their suitability for hub motor use is the legend /description or a view of the motor wiring.,

 

[daffy99]

Both are hall sensor controllers.

I now need further education, please, to help me assess the differences between controllers with the respective labels

• KT36ZWSR-EP01
• KT36/48SVRPD-[blacked out]

I was hoping that switching to the "KT36/48SVRPD-[blacked out]" controller would yield the following benefits, in order of importance to me:

• sine wave phase power (instead of square wave phase power), resulting in
  • improved start-up performance
  • more silent operation
  • improved energy efficiency
• 48V (13s battery pack) as an additional option to play with, opening up the potential for
  • 33% more energy delivered into the motor
  • 15%(?) increase in top-speed in the flats (highly dependent on areodynamics)
• 17A peak current instead of 15A peak current, so
  • +13% energy - 612W @ 36V
  • +50% energy - 816W @ 48V / 20%(?) increase in top-speed

Given my first impressions, I'd not be all that interested in the additional power and top-speed any more. I'd still be very interested in less noise and more efficiency.

My (probably wrong) understanding of sine wave vs square wave is that, literally, the shape of the wave form is different - sine wave being a sine wave, square shape being boxy. The hall sensors would then be used to align the wave form with the rotational position of the motor, over the course of time.

 

[Nealh]

Hall sensor wiring 8 or 9 /wires = sinewave
No hall sensor 3 wires only = square wave.

Both controllers are hall sensor & sine wave both give quieter smother operation the only difference is 15a one is for 36v though can be used up to 12s with max 4.15v max cell charge to be on the safe side 4.1v, it has waterproof easy fit wiring.
17a version is a dual voltage model so can be used with 36 or 48v even to the point of using trying up to 15s to a point if so wished.

If the requirement is to use 36v and in need of a few more amps/watts then a simple shunt mod on the 15a controller can increase power output by another 25 or 30% if required.

I

 

[Deleted member 4366]

36v will always be more efficient than 48v for the same motor - if that's your goal. 48v gives ore power and speed. You will get a real life improvement of 30% more speed, and around 50% increase in climbing torque (depending on speed) because of the additional current.

 

[daffy99]

Yes, that looks perfect - except for the "out of stock" part. Email fired off

For the benefit of the community: I got a response quickly (kudos!), but it seems as if this specific adapter cable will not be available going forward.

 

[topographer]

Anyone know what these yosepower motors weigh? Hopefully less than 3kg.

 

[daffy99]

The net weight of the motor seems to be about 2.8 kg. Rim and spokes add ... a lot ... to the package. It seems much could be gained by tweaking those components.

 

[daffy99]

Would there be a way to run the Yosepower kit without the display?

The larger Kunteng controllers can be wired up in a fashion that they are always on(?), operate without display, and drive on PAS alone, from whatever setting was last made through the display. (http://www.pswpower.com/upfile/dtpic/2016/3F/43TE.50CTN/4439TR_H3H8U.jpg)

Now, the Yosepower Kunteng controller has one (water-proof) plug, and eight pins. I'd speculate that these eight pins are

1. GND (serving display, brake, throttle)
2. display RX
3. display TX
4. display positive battery
5. display ignition lock
6. +5V (serving brake, throttle)
7. throttle signal
8. brake signal

So, in theory, one could cut in half that extension cable coming with the Yosepower kit, then out of the eight cables above, bridge the pins/cables

• "display positive battery" and "display ignition lock"
• GND and "display RX"

as per the full Kunteng controller instructions?

I am trying to remove the display from the handlebar (and stuffing it into a bag, all wired up, doesn't feel right). This then would only leave a cable to the PAS and the motor.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

When I ran without the display, I wired the Tx to Rx and red (battery) to blue (switched controller supply).

 

[daffy99]

That does follow the instructions for the pswpower SM-5 plug, indeed.

I wonder whether the eight pins of the Yosepower plug are in fact wired in the fashion that I speculate about above (it would make sense from a strictly logical point of view, no?), and whether applying the equivalent bridging strategy would yield the same results?

Reading between the lines - you ran without a display, but have gone back to using the display? If so, why? Lack of voltage display? No influencing of the assist level?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Reading between the lines - you ran without a display, but have gone back to using the display? If so, why? Lack of voltage display? No influencing of the assist level?

I was fixing a bike for someone. I suspected that his bike's non-function was caused by a faulty display. I took the bridging connector from a new KT controller, which was supplied with it. I thought it didn't look right, so I changed it before using it. I was able to show that the controller worked without the display, so we bought a new display, which fixed the bike.

Maybe the connector would work with that wire grounded. It wouldn't do any damage if it's protected by a resistor, but I didn't want to take the chance.

 

[calcal]

Can I ask what freewheel you are using with this kit?

 

[footpump]

hi all have just ordered rear 350w kit as its a fair price and I already have batteries.
my kudos vita uno mtb 26" wheels has 3 levels of assist 250w 8 fun rear hub, bearings are shot and battery now gives about 15 miles range.
I will try to leave as much as possible of the kudos wiring/controller etc in place try another battery even if I mount it on rear rack.
fit 350rear hub and see if theres much or any difference in grunt as regards hills 250w vs 350 I think the kudos controller is 14amps
what does cst stand for cannot see this in kit description
thank all

 

[Nealh]

CST means it takes splined cassette 8 or 9 gears.
The freewheel version takes a threaded gear set.

The bearings in your 8fun hub should be quite easy to replace once the hub is open. The bearings will have a part number written on them and are generic size ones available for a few pounds each on ebay.
My 8fun CST hubs bearings I replaced last Autumn, 1 central large bearing and a non drive side axle bearing and two for the cassette hub for a belt and braces job.

 

[Nealh]

I don't think you will feel much more grunt from the hub using a similar amp rated controller though depending on the rpm of your old hub you may find the Yose a bit faster.
The Yose is about 270/280rpm and should get you up 10% inclines, doing a shunt mod to give a few more amps might help.
At 15a you will see about 505w, with my 20a controller I saw about 705w from the hub.

 

[footpump]

thanks for info nealh
I have checked what I ordered is freewheel vertion from elife shop (7 speed fitted to kudos) 300-320 rpm.
have just noticed mine is not yosepower although they look identical, my kit has easy fit Juliet connectors on controller , but it seems 17a 36/48v kt on psw site has jst?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A 350w rated motor wouldn't givevany more grunt. Grunt comes mainly from the controller. As already said, bearings are easy to fix. For more grunt, you need a decent battery and higher power (current) controller.

 

[Woosh]

for more grunt at the same voltage and current, you either choose a crank drive motor or a geared motor with higher reduction ratio or one that has larger magnets (thus larger and heavier) or one that is wired for lower noload speed. In my experience, the probability of failure increases with the rotor's speed, the best one is geared motor wired for lower RPM.

 

[footpump]

hi all received kit today all seems in order.
as pointed out the supplied kt controller is 15amp but with 4 juiliet cables
lcd 3 also juilet.
(I have the kt controller and lcd3 from older ebc kit non Juliet connecters, also 15amps so I can the Juliet seems far neater.

as nealh pointed out he did not use the supplied controller etc but used kt 20a and lcd3 already fitted to another bike so only the 350watt rear wheel was fitted I believe.
I can understand more amps more grunt

what I cannot see is how if using the supplied kit you can use a kt 17ah or 20a controller as they do not have juiliet connecters.

I also do not see how the 350w hub with 9 pins connects to the 20a kt controller.

if using the 15amp one supplied shunt mode seems the only way ?