Yosepower hub kits.

[daffy99]

@36v, The Yose max watts I saw in PAS 5 was 705 with my 20a controller

Yesterday was the first day I could try my YosePower kit, the 26" rear hub variant in all black - 350 Watt nominal power, disc brake compatible (but not compatible with hydraulics and Hollowtech cranksets)

In addition to all that has been said, and which I can confirm, the controller supplied with the kit seems to deliver a maximum of 475 Watt to the motor - at least that's the largest number I caught on the display. That would translate to roughly 13A; my 10S3P battery pack (of LG MJ1 cells) should be able to deliver significantly more, at least in peak.

I was surprised to note that the highest speed indicated on the flats was 36 km/h (full throttle, thumb throttle), with wheel size configured to 26" to match the 26" wheel. It's comforting to see this matching the 22.5 mph documented above. I have yet to make a confirmed measurement of that speed (GPS, calibrated speedometer).

For me, the package was about 2 mm too wide to perfectly fit into my full suspension rear end, so I had to pull apart by hand the frame a tad. I decided to go with a 160 mm disc to make use of the existing Shimano XT mount configuration. There is about 2 mm of clearance from the break caliper body to the motor case - so this _just_ fits. (Moving to a 180 mm disc would offer ample clearance.)

I am rather positively surprised about climbing performance. The motor accepted all challenges willingly and only in the most challenging cases required (any) pedaling to make progress. I have no hard data for this (yet), sorry.

So, based on first impressions, and this being the first ever electrically assisted bike I have ever ridden: This seems to be quite a nice package.

 

[daffy99]

I elected to remove my Q128C on my Boardman and the Yose fitted straight in with no gear adjustment needed, I didn't use the supplied KT kit as I already have a dual voltage controller wired up with lcd3 etc.

@Nealh - may I ask how you managed to sort out all these Julet connectors?

I would like to replace the kit controller (Julet) with a pswpower-sourced dual 36V/48V 17A controller - but that one comes with different connectors for PAS, throttle, display, and motor (power, hall sensors).

 

[Nealh]

@Nealh - may I ask how you managed to sort out all these Julet connectors?

I would like to replace the kit controller (Julet) with a pswpower-sourced dual 36V/48V 17A controller - but that one comes with different connectors for PAS, throttle, display, and motor (power, hall sensors).

I had no need to do anything as I already was using a pwsp 20a controller with matching components with sm3 connectors with the Q128c, all I had to do was swap out the hub.
A simple mod you can try is to add solder to your controller shunt, this adjusts the resistance value and increase the amps. Add solder between 10 & 30% of the shunts total length, with the lcd3 you could roughly calculate the increase in amps by seeing how many watts appear on the screen.

 

[Nealh]

Yesterday was the first day I could try my YosePower kit, the 26" rear hub variant in all black - 350 Watt nominal power, disc brake compatible (but not compatible with hydraulics and Hollowtech cranksets)

In addition to all that has been said, and which I can confirm, the controller supplied with the kit seems to deliver a maximum of 475 Watt to the motor - at least that's the largest number I caught on the display. That would translate to roughly 13A; my 10S3P battery pack (of LG MJ1 cells) should be able to deliver significantly more, at least in peak.

You can use a normal pas sensor and disc for hollowtech /gxp type BB's, just a case of drilling the center out nicely to fit over bearing housing. A single brake cut out might be prudent if you are using a throttle in case of throttle malfunction, brake cu tout just needs a bit of thinking thru to for fitting of a sensor and magnet.

Although your battery is able to deliver more amps it is held back by the 14/15a max controller rating so about 510- 540w is the max you can expect to see. Even with MJ1's I would be a little wary in drawing to much more out of them in a 3P (30a) configuration, the 10a peak rating for them isn't continuous but for a 5-10s burst.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can sometimes increase the current in the LCD settings. If you do it by soldering the shunt, don't forget that the LCD will show the current lower than it actually is. Basically, it won't show any change.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Although your battery is able to deliver more amps it is held back by the 14/15a max controller rating so about 510- 540w is the max you can expect to see. Even with MJ1's I would be a little wary in drawing to much more out of them in a 3P (30a) configuration, the 10a peak rating for them isn't continuous but for a 5-10s burst.

And the discharge rate setting of the BMS. If you stay at 15 Amps you should be able to draw that much continuous with no problems:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG 18650 MJ1 3500mAh (Green) UK.html

Each cell of the 3P group only needs to provide 5A at 15A discharge and the cell is quite cool at 7A discharge. With the 5.2A Samsung cells that is a whole different story as many of us have discovered. I looked but I can't find stress test data which says at which cell Amperage a 3P or 4P10S battery stops sagging badly at full discharge of common controllers (15A KT), anyone know? We all know the 30Q is good but what about the 10A cells?

 

[Unseen]

Neal: Do you think that the YOSE/Elife kit would be capable of lugging around a total weight of 150kg with the standard 36v controller as supplied or would it not stand a chance even uprating the controller to 48v?

Just trying to check all options before putting an order in via China..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

For 150kg, you need a low-speed motor. That means an actual speed of around 201 rpm at the voltage that you run it. 48v gives 30% more torque, but it also causes the speed to increase by 30%, so if you want to run at 48v, you should get a 201rpm 48v version.

In order, I'd say that these motors would be a better choice for that sort of weight:
500w 48v 201 rpm Bafang BPM
800w 48v 201 rpm Q128H
48v Xiongda 2-speed
500w 48v Bafang CST (slowest you can find)

 

[Nealh]

My all up is about 110/120kg carrying extra batteries and tools/kit etc, but I'm using a 20a controller so can give it more watts. The difference between pas 4 & 5 is very noticeable.
I think 150kg at the std set up will be a little wanting esp on inclines , rpm is 270/290 so not a high torque low speed hub.
My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w so will see if it crashes and burns, it has the same rating and is much the same size as the Q100 so it might cope as long as I'm careful with the power delivery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w so will see if it crashes and burns, it has the same rating and is much the same size as the Q100 so it might cope as long as I'm careful with the power delivery.

There's nothing like a good ultimate load test to see how strong motors actually are.

My prediction is that it's going to get very warm with that weight and 48v. If it were around 230 rpm at 36v, it would have a better chance running with 48v.

I had a MXUS CST motor that's similar. It was around 270 rpm at 36v. It wasn't very happy at 48v, an all-up weight of 125kg and hills. The increase in torque wasn't as much as the normal 30% because it was running much less efficiently, which made it heat up too easily too, so I had to use a lower assist level and ended up with the same power as before, but running less efficiently.

The 36v Xiongda motor is the same. It has a speed in high gear of around 260 rpm. It also felt very wrong at 48v, while as the 260 rpm 48v version was perfect.

Please let us know how it turns out.

 

[daffy99]

My all up is about 110/120kg carrying extra batteries and tools/kit etc, but I'm using a 20a controller so can give it more watts.
...
My next step is to try 13s/48v so a potential 1080w

Total system weight for me is about 90 kg human + 20 kg machine = 110 kg - I'd be thrilled if a 13s3p (2.5 kg weight in total) when combined with the 17A pswpower _sine wave_ controller were to offer even more (sustainable) torque. Not sure, though, what exactly to expect from going from the OEM Kunteng 36V square wave controller to the nice sine wave version.

 

[daffy99]

I had no need to do anything as I already was using a pwsp 20a controller with matching components with sm3 connectors with the Q128c, all I had to do was swap out the hub.

I might be dense, sorry:

My 17A pswpower controller has three individual motor phase wires, and one plug DJ7061-2.8-21 for 5x hall and 1x speed (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/36V-48V-350W-Brushless-DC-Sine-Wave-Controller-ebike-Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor-Controller-with-right/32759804535.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10059_10340_10314_10341_10534_100031_10084_10604_10083_10103_10307_10142_10134,searchweb201603_36,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295-19&algo_pvid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295&priceBeautifyAB=0).

The YosePower motor has that one Julet plug.

Square peg -> round hole?

I am looking for the least painful way to accomplish that mission, preferably while neither wrecking my nerves nor any of the hardware. Would it be (more) advisable to get hold of one of these "precious" (= seriously overpriced) Julet 3+5+1 extension cables, cut that in the middle and then solder it to extend the pswpower controller? How would one find the matching phase cable, the matching hall sensor cable (and thus the remaining speed sensor?). Going by cable colours strikes me as playing with fire?

 

[daffy99]

Addendum: The extension cable would be something like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Motor-cable-with-9-pin-waterproof-connector-male-and-female-for-motor/32814558471.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10059_10340_10314_10341_10534_100031_10084_10604_10083_10103_10307_10142_10134,searchweb201603_36,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295-20&algo_pvid=b7ac969c-c987-44ed-a998-5e5c0adc5295&priceBeautifyAB=0 at USD 14 shipped. Grrr.

 

[daffy99]

And the discharge rate setting of the BMS. If you stay at 15 Amps you should be able to draw that much continuous with no problems

I am running this pack: http://enerprof.de/shop/batteries/ebike-and-pedelec-batteries/enerpower-softpack-36v-10s3p-10-35ah-with-bms-pedelec-battery-8x8-diy/ which advertises

• Continuous discharge current: 20A = 720 Watt
• 10 Min. discharge current: 25A = 900 Watt
• 5 Sec. discharge current: 35A = 1260 Watt

after the BMS has done its thing, I'd wager.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The most important one is the one you clipped:

• Constant load per cell: approx. 3.7A or 7A in peak load.

7 x 3 = 21 Amps peak, 720 W with a 20A controller
3.7 x 3 = 11.1 Amps constant, factor in some loss and you get about 360 W

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What makes you think that your present controller is square wave? KT square wave controllers are normally sensorless.

 

[Nealh]

Yosepower are using the sine wave controller, the hubs are sensored with internal wheel speed sensing. The motor cable uses a standard 9 pin wire /colour layout which is universal, you need this hall sensored motor wire with white 6 pin hall block and 3 phase wires.

https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

 

[awol]

The YosePower motor has that one Julet plug.

Square peg -> round hole?

Does this motor cable look like it will sort your problem?
https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

 

[daffy99]

What makes you think that your present controller is square wave? KT square wave controllers are normally sensorless.

The controller from my YosePower kit is labelled "KT36ZWSR-EP01". I have always been interpreting "ZWSR" as square wave and "SVPRD", as in KT36/48SVPRD-17A, as sine wave.

I welcome any and all education

 

[daffy99]

Does this motor cable look like it will sort your problem?
https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/extras/motor-cable-hall-effect-female-waterproof-male-standard-wiring-panda-eco/

Yes, that looks perfect - except for the "out of stock" part. Email fired off