Yosepower Front Hub kit recommendations/alternatives

[speedyjt]

Hello I'm new. Hopefully mine is a round peg/round hole issue and I'm simply overthinking. I'm a 50 year old cycle courier interested in longevity in chosen profession so ebike becoming necessary. Have 2 old Treks both with Hollowtech BB and chainsets I like. Yosepower hollowtech sensor and generally highly regarded hub kits therefore appealing, and aware of no other options for compatible PAS sensor. Pros/cons of front/rear hub appear to favour rear hub, with added benefit of being safer. Yosepower throw a spanner in by discontinuing rear hub 250W kits (at least for 26"/cassette which I require). They suggest front hub kit. Which brings me to subject of post - how safe on alloy suspension fork? Two old Treks have slightly older Manitou forks, which I also like. I don't like the thought of face planting however. Torque arms are recommended, but how to tell a good one? I'm seeing very generic ones offered online. Don't know if trusting a couple bits of £13 metal to prevent serious injury is a good idea. Or how to source decent replacement spokes as I understand the Yosepower spokes may be poor quality. Only interested in 250W motor, and would usually disengage when going at speed downhill, otherwise riding quite hard and looking out for the obvious threats on roads and not that interested to add another if I can help it. Any thoughts or recommendations please? Does anyone have good experience riding a front hub conversion on alloy forks with torque arms, generic or otherwise? Anyone think it's a bad idea? Any other road-legal solutions for keeping current chain set/fork/bike? Very odd to me that Yosepower are still selling 350W rear hub kits, and admit it's tempting but that's a risk of another kind as this will be a work bike.

 

[Az.]

Hi JT.

I have Yose front hub. No problems with aluminum fork apart from need to source extra washers to install it safely on quick release fork. Torque arm would add extra safety though.
I am very much against illegal options, but if I was buying now I would consider 350W option. 250W I find underpowered in hilly areas comparing to another 250W I have manufactured by another company.
I bought mine on Amazon with 2 year 3rd party warranty.

PS Yose will likely offer discounts on 1st May if you have patience to wait.

 

[Nealh]

250w, 350w, 500w or even 750w makes little difference in power, what matters is the current one uses. If one use's 15a or 20a they all will be much of a muchness, the difference will be when one uses 25 or 30a then the 250 or 350 may start to struggle with the motor windings. Another is the windings and the RPM speed the motor is wound for, so wattage alone one can't compare like for like.

 

[speedyjt]

Thank you Az. That's great to know. Thinking two torque arms actually, having no prior experience and knowing that the fork in question will be 20+ years old. And yes agree that the law seems rather restrictive on this subject - many couriers appear to be flouting it without consequence but that is their business and mine is to stay in work without needing to register/insure my bike. A few hills here in Edinburgh so hopefully the law will be changed at some point, but any help on the hills is still help. I don't know about Yosepower motors but I've been renting a Zoomo and apart from chain falling off often main issue is getting moving from stationary on hills - it weighs 27kg and is 1x and a beast until the PAS kicks in. My Trek is 3x and probably won't be anything like that weight with a Yosepower kit mounted so hope for the best.

Any other opinions on the suitability of a 250W front hub with alloy fork are welcome, including advice on sourcing quality torque arms and/or compatible spokes.

 

[speedyjt]

250w, 350w, 500w or even 750w makes little difference in power, what matters is the current one uses. If one use's 15a or 20a they all will be much of a muchness, the difference will be when one uses 25 or 30a then the 250 or 350 may start to struggle with the motor windings. Another is the windings and the RPM speed the motor is wound for, so wattage alone one can't compare like for like.

Thanks. Excuse ignorance and I will go and research this if I need to. Ok so I would need to find out the current going through this motor and RPM speed. Any idea where to start looking for this information? Yosepower.co.uk advertise 250W kit with 15ah battery, 40 Nm max torque, not sure what peak amperage would be. From personal experience and that of others, Yosepower give very brief/unhelpful replies. It's not a strong motor though, obviously in comparison to some others which are available. Is it powerful enough to cause a fork to crack though?

 

[Az.]

I find Chinese manufactures and sellers very unreliable. What they write in technical specification is one thing while you will get something quite different in real life.
What I know is that when going up hill Yose is struggling. Huffing, puffing and making a lot of noise, but it always gets me to the top when we work together.

Another bike I have has Ananda motor/controller/display. On this one I can ghost pedal up hill with hot dog in one hand and cup of coke in another and it is almost completely silent. I really like Ananda, but there is a big problem with it... you can't buy it as a kit for DIY installation.

I also had concerns regarding safety when I was buying Yose, but so far it proves to be quite reliable. You might consider buying nylon lock nuts. Washers/nuts sent by Yose are not of best quality.

 

[speedyjt]

What I know is that when going up hill Yose is struggling. Huffing, puffing and making a lot of noise, but it always gets me to the top when we work together.

Interesting, suppose we get what we pay for. In contrast the Zoomo seems more like your Ananda motor and is very quiet indeed, but there's no way I'm going to pay the £40 a week they are asking (3-month promotion contract ends next week), and not wanting to join the Zoomo army - if there aren't a fleet of these riding around your city you are lucky. I'm plenty used to huffing and puffing up hills, haven't missed it at all but at it's good to know what I might expect from Yose hub motor. We'll get there.

I also had concerns regarding safety when I was buying Yose, but so far it proves to be quite reliable. You might consider buying nylon lock nuts. Washers/nuts sent by Yose are not of best quality.

Good to hear. Do you know what size nuts it takes?

 

[Nealh]

The law isn't restrictive as 250w is more and well over that which an average cyclist can provide, I doubt may cyclists can produce and sustain 100w output let alone 250w, at 250w and above one is in to pro cyclist power and the likes of the major tour riders managing 400w with sprint burst of up to 1400w.

Anyone simply that keeps banging on about 500/1000w wants a moped without licensing and simply getting it via the back door. You will be fine most likely until you have a serious accident, hit someone and maim or kill them then likely you will be sued for every penny you have, one can wave goodbye to the car,house an holidays.

 

[speedyjt]

The law isn't restrictive as 250w is more and well over that which an average cyclist can provide, I doubt may cyclists can produce and sustain 100w output let alone 250w, at 250w and above one is in to pro cyclist power and the likes of the major tour riders managing 400w with sprint burst of up to 1400w.

Fair point, not the point of my post but suppose it is good to mention facts such as these when the subject of legal limits comes up even in passing. As I went from using a pretty light mountain bike to a Zoomo weighing 27kg, my initial experience was that it helped a lot on hills obviously but that I could actually go a bit faster on my own bike, on the flat. Once the PAS switches off it is very hard to accelerate on a bike that heavy. So the assistance is relative in practice. But every bike is different and ebikes don't all weigh 27kg so appreciate your point.

Regarding the potential consequences of causing injury to others, this is one reason I resisted getting an ebike as I tend to ride as fast as possible (safely, depending on road conditions and setting) up or down which is one thing with a light bike, very much another with a heavy one. Rule number one: don't hit people (or their pets).

 

[Az.]

Long story short I don't like Yose, but I don't see any other company on the market that would be able to challenge them. There is a Woosh and you might check their offer. You would still get Chinese stuff (as far as I understand), but with British customer service and standards if you are willing to pay extra for that.
Yose customer service you have already met. They have warehouses in UK and Germany. It takes time and patience to contact them, but they are there if you need them.

I am sorry, but I can't help with size of nuts required at this moment. Yose bike is in shed under a lot of junk now waiting for better weather. Nuts sent in kit should be more than enough to keep you going initially though.
Washers are a different story. Kit I received was designed for flat fork. Fast release fork has a recess which you must fill somehow, so washers are a must. If you decide to go with yose I will check purchase history to find size I bought. Or I might just send you a pair of washers if I am lucky enough and find a bag I bought (50 or 100 from Screwfix).
Don't worry about aluminum fork. It should be ok with 250W motor. Torque arm should add additional safety.

As per law... By nature and by choice I am a law abiding citizen, but more and more skeptical while I am getting older. I start to think police are more busy with killing, raping people and eating doughnuts rather than protecting people. I start to think one might need a decent size motor and a throttle to maintain a healthy distance from police and perhaps one might like to look for protection by going to local mafia boss rather than to police station.
I find law in UK to be written by pencil pushers and completely detached from reality(but I guess there is a little difference around the world). How is it OK to sell electric scooters and it is not OK to use them on pavements and on roads?
When I ride a bike and see a child or a dog, I slow down or even stop and let them pass. Throttle or 500W motor wouldn't make any difference.
...but that is a different subject...

 

[speedyjt]

Long story short I don't like Yose, but I don't see any other company on the market that would be able to challenge them.

You took the words out of my next post. There does seem to be quite a gap in the market at this time, suppose Yose are doing their best to fill it but are still a Chinese company at the end of the day without the niceties of customer service one would expect from a UK supplier, and with some quality issues. Judging by online reviews, most users have been pleasantly surprised by Yose though not all and some on this forum have had issues with motors and wiring, though the company apparently send out replacement components as needed. Searching online doesn't show many alternatives - came across Kirbebikes after seeing a few of the founder's fairly popular youtube videos, but found it interesting that most Trustpilot reviews atrocious and the few positive ones somehow went up the same day. Woosh actually seems very promising, thanks had not heard of the company before coming to this forum. They may have a hollowtech-compatible PAS sensor, need to research. And they also have the controller built into battery mount similar to Yose, which is a definite winner if waterproof. Excellent that they offer to make recommendations based on supplied photos of bikes, and to do call-back with engineer. Maybe too good to be true but I can't imagine Yose offering anything of that kind. Woosh certainly have a lot more to read on their website than Yosepower, so will take a little time to look at options. When I quickly checked today seemed they only had front hub options, but that may not be the case after all.

No worries regarding hub nuts, hope you find your Yosepower bike at some point and that everything still works as it should. Really appreciate time taken and will update once I make a decision and/or need advice on washers for mounting to either front or rear fork once I have a kit. Regarding your last point, totally agree that police seem to have other priorities than policing at least when it comes to e-scooter and e-bike throttle users, I never see anyone getting stopped but have no idea what happens when I'm not looking, and have been grateful more than once that a cop had better things to do than pull me over for running a light. Like you I'm a considerate road rider but suppose the laws are what they are to prevent people getting run over as opposed to just knocked over. Who knows at the end of the day, I generally ride pretty fast and get neck ache from scoping out all the cars/pedestrians/potholes etc. and if I could legally go faster I would but without insurance that could be problematic, and all it takes is once. Never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people can be regarding their own safety and that of others, and I've had a few lapses of judgement and close calls myself over the years so consider myself lucky and learning every day.

 

[Az.]

I really like concept of a controller built into battery base. There is however a small problem with it. Most bikes have bottle holders at the bottom of downtube, exactly where controller is. So better check all measurements.

You might need something like that:

E-Bike Battery Installation Adjustment Bracket ONLY for Hailong Battery

Optimize your e-bike setup with our Installation Adjustment Bracket, tailored specifically for Hailong batteries. Enhance stability and fitment with this precision-engineered bracket, ensuring a secure and seamless installation for your riding comfort and safety.

yosepower.com

or another DIY solution or simply drill holes in bike frame. I attached battery to rack at the back.

If you decide to buy from Yose, this is the battery you want (20Ah Samsung cells):

36V 15.6Ah/17.4Ah/20Ah 48V 13Ah Down Tube Hailong1-2 Battery Lithium-ion Accu E-Bike Electric Bicycle Bottle New Black DIY

Power your electric bicycle with our customizable 36V 15.6Ah/17.4Ah or 48V 13Ah Down Tube Hailong1-2 Battery. With a sleek black bottle design, it's perfect for your DIY projects and ensures reliable performance on every ride.

yosepower.com

Unfortunately none in stock in UK warehouse at this moment.

My yose bike survived winter in a cold and damp shed, which is a good thing. Was riding on id few days ago. All works as it should.

I agree with you, there is a massive hole in the market and this whole transition to electric transportation and renewable energy is done so badly it simply hurts. This is expected though as whole transition is managed by petrol and fossil fuel lobby, so no surprise it doesn't go well. Prices of ebikes and conversion kits are insane. We need a giant company to make a dent in the market and shake up industry. Few months ago Amazon was selling ebikes at nice prices. Whole bikes for £300 or £400. This is how much it should cost really.

 

[speedyjt]

I'm actually leaning towards a Woosh rear hub kit now. There's a lot to like about a company that spells everything out or seems to, and which even contributes to this forum. Have to have good feeling about this level of customer service: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/aikema-85sxc-36v-250w-rear-hub-kit.38972/#post-597235

I'll need to save a lot more pennies but hopefully get something I'm very happy with and will be much more confident riding my old frame/fork with a rear hub motor, which is priceless really as I will ride this bike hard 25+ hours a week. Other benefits of Woosh - inline brake sensors mean I can keep my levers and not take chances by skipping sensors altogether, choice of 250W motors (XF08C which is rated more powerful than the Yosepower at 45 Nm and probably same weight but silver, and 85SX at 40 Nm but only 2.0kg and black), Hailong batteries without loud logo on them, and a chainring pedal sensor which should hopefully solve my BB issue - and that was the initial reason I was drawn to Yosepower.

I am not sure about doing the conversion myself and have never heard of a digital multitester, but will cross that bridge. Main drawback is I'll need to go back to sweaty pushing around town for another week or two after I return the Zoomo next week, as have more options to consider now and need to keep earning which in my case is directly proportional to physical - if not motorised - effort. I'll update once I've got results to report or more questions. Thanks for all your help for this beginner! Glad to hear your Yose bike is still going strong!

 

[saneagle]

You can fit any PAS sensor to any type of BB if you have basic DIY skills and a small amount of intelligence. The exception is the all-in-one units that clip into the end of the BB and are designed for specific spindle sizes.

Only fit a front hub motor if there is no alternative to a rear one, like when you have hub gears. Front hub works, but there are safety issues as well as all the other downsides.

 

[Waspy]

I converted my old Trek with a Woosh XF08C rear wheel kit and I'm very happy with it. Very good pre and after sales advice via email (email was my choice of communication).

I have no experience of Hollowtech BBs, but I'm sure Woosh (or this forum) will advise accordingly.

If you don't fit a throttle, you don't need brake sensors.

I did not need to use a multimeter.

It's a shame they only come in silver though.

 

[speedyjt]

I converted my old Trek with a Woosh XF08C rear wheel kit and I'm very happy with it. Very good pre and after sales advice via email (email was my choice of communication).

Thanks for sharing your experience, that is great to know. Haven't contacted them yet but leaning toward the 85SX for cosmetic/stealth reasons and for weight saving as pre-Zoomo I used to always bring my bike into the tenement buildings I typically deliver to, and would like to be able to do that again if possible as locking it 15 times a night would be a faff and cut into my earnings. Will see what Woosh advise.

Cool Trek, actually own 2 4100s myself - both the 2003 model not as good (or as good looking!) as yours but only frames are original as I've upgraded everything else, and those are red of course Good to see you've been able to mount the battery on the original bottle bolts from the looks of photo. Any issues with dropout width? What is your gearing I wonder? 1x7? The one I intend to convert is currently 3x8 and I'll see how much I use the small ring once it's got a motor but it's been helpful for Edinburgh, and I've developed a strong dislike for the 1x system on Zoomo.

 

[Waspy]

Thanks for sharing your experience, that is great to know. Haven't contacted them yet but leaning toward the 85SX for cosmetic/stealth reasons and for weight saving

The 85SX was actually my first choice but they had none in stock at the time (last summer)

as pre-Zoomo I used to always bring my bike into the tenement buildings I typically deliver to, and would like to be able to do that again if possible as locking it 15 times a night would be a faff and cut into my earnings. Will see what Woosh advise.

My bike originally weighed 13.26kg, my conversion kit (motor and battery) weighs 7.4kg. Let's add 0.5 kg for cabling etc. So total weight is about 21.16kg. I also lost a bit of weight by dumping the triple crankset and front derailleur. How that would work out carrying it around tenement buildings, I could not say. Depends how young and fit you are I suppose

Cool Trek, actually own 2 4100s myself - both the 2003 model not as good (or as good looking!) as yours but only frames are original as I've upgraded everything else, and those are red of course Good to see you've been able to mount the battery on the original bottle bolts from the looks of photo.

Thanks, mine is 2003 (I think) I have also changed many parts.
Only one bottle cage bolthole lined up (the second was 2mm out) so I added a Rivnut as supplied by Woosh. RJ the Bike Guy on Youtube shows you how to do this but I had to buy a right-angle drill chuck from Screwfix. If you don't fancy drilling holes in your frame you can always buy one of these:

Wolf Tooth B-RAD Mounting Base

Any issues with dropout width? What is your gearing I wonder? 1x7? The one I intend to convert is currently 3x8 and I'll see how much I use the small ring once it's got a motor but it's been helpful for Edinburgh, and I've developed a strong dislike for the 1x system on Zoomo.

Dropout width was tricky, I fitted the two 4mm plain washers inside the dropouts and the two anti-rotation washers outside the dropouts. Everything fitted easily with a rear V-Brake fitted. But I fancied a disc brake and this was slightly more problematic. I had to remove the black plastic spacer between disc and motor and then force the chainstays apart a couple of mm to get the wheel in, you just need patience. I have an 8 speed cassette fitted to the rear but I dumped the three ring crankset on the front and front deraillieur and fitted a single chainring. It is 38 teeth but I could do with a bigger size, when I get to 15 -18mph it spins out. I have a 42 tooth in my shed waiting to be fitted. Where I live is not very hilly (Wiltshire). I have no idea about Edinburgh, although I lved there briefly as a child. To be honest, what with the 38 tooth chainring fitted and with the electric motor of course, I hardly ever (i.e. never) use the bottom 3 or 4 gears.

Good luck!

 

[matthewslack]

Don't be put off doing it yourself. Plenty of help both online and from other ebikers near where you live. Help arrives when you need it.