Yose Power kit advice

[Bogmonster666]

Hi,

Was all set to pull the trigger on a Whoosh kit (and I might still if the 48v batteries come back in stock). In these interim I have changed the BB so I have room for a sensor, changed the crankset to a double affair from a triple as the chainline was too messed up with the wider BB. Not very happy with the quality of the crankset but not many cheap options.

I have just fitted v brakes (yes, I had ancient cantilever brakes before - I can stop now).

Anyway, in my boredom, I started to look at options. There is masses of info on the yose kits but I wonder how much is out of my date. I certainly like the price but if the kits no good then false economy.

I was originally going to go for a 26 inch cassette rear hub and downtube battery. My bike is an old MTB with aluminium frame and forks. Was not so keen on a front hub with aluminium forks but maybe I am being paranoid? I am not keen on loosing the front wheel in front of a lorry. I do have some steel forks that I expect could be swapped in if needed - edit, scratch that wrong diameter steerer....

I see that 250w rear yose kits are available (not willing to go with 350w marked motor) but in freewheel variant only? I also believe both front and rear kits are now 210rpm (although I think some are still higher rpm looking at torque and max speed) - correct? Not sure I am willing to go to the 350w kit but out of curiosity, is the power on a sticky label or stamped / etched into the motor case?

I see the rears hub is wider that 135mm so would need to spread the frame - not very keen on this tbh. Can anybody confirm the minimum dropout distance required on the Yose rear motor?

I see I can get a kit without battery or with battery and controller in battery cradle. My preference would be to have the controller separate - why? So I have more options to replace battery in the future. I see some mention the downtube batteries use Samsung cells - but I find this surprising given the price? Anybody know what cells are in the 36v 15.y ah downtube battery?

Also, it looks like a Lishui controllers which people appear not to like much (although I think Whoosh also use Lishui)?

Some people report quality control has gone down hill - thoughts?

The torque looks lower on these than the hiqh torque kit I was originally looking at. What experience are people getting on steep hills. All in, bike and rider about 100kg. Can put in 200w plus of my own power, I expect closer to 300w for short periods on the steeper sections. The 210 rpm motors apparently have 40nm if torque. Is that going to get me up short sections of 15% incline with my effort as well?

Finally, I could go with a battery from another seller. Any recommendations. The Liito Kala uncased ones are very cheap from China and I am happy to 3d print a case. Are these batteries truly awful and you get what you pay for?

C

 

[Bogmonster666]

On the 350w motor, not really prepared to jeopardize my driving licence riding a non compliant bike. Chances of being caught are minimal, but would come out in the event of a serious accident...

 

[stargazer30]

I had the 350w yose hub kit. The motor was identical to a 250w hub. I don’t remember it having 350w stamped on it either. It was a good kit and not really faster than my old derestricted 250w/36v hub bike. I seriously doubt you’d get into trouble As long as you left the throttle off it and set it to 15mph max.

 

[PC2017]

My front YOSE 250w 220rpm likes 48v but all KT. The new Xf07 I got gets a little hot at 48v*14a [early days yet though still testing the xf07]. I found the rear YOSE poor quality but others didn't. The YOSE front has done 10000 miles + but whether the quality is the same or not is the question, until you purchase you never really know what you'll get however YOSE do/did have good CS, China based though.

I had a Dillenger (36v)350w front & YOSE front(36&48v) on aluminium forks with small issues, paint chipping and general wear but they were cheap entry level forks. Now I have steel forks. Just ride safe and expect others to put you in harms way. Best to reflect on your personal style of riding, careful or manic. Either front or rear can be deadly in the wrong place at the wrong time I suppose.

Any battery from Aliexpress/ebay/china do as much due diligence as possible, when I pulled the trigger on a £150 battery from BMSbattery I took a risk based on reviews, this forum and the fact I had extra funds to replace if needed, however I praise BMSbattery but others may not.

 

[sjpt]

The new Xf07 I got gets a little hot at 48v*14a [early days yet though still testing the xf07].

I asked Woosh some time ago about using the XF07 at 48 volts and he advised against it.

 

[PC2017]

advised against it.

Strangely the pswpower kit did come with a dual voltage controller, whether by design or just a bulk unit they had when prepping the kit I am not sure.

I can always run it at 36v with a simple battery swap. It's not as versatile as the Yose front at 48v, however the yose has very little snap and is a little lacklustre at 36v albeit doable. The xf07 is also lacking in thrust at 36v but handles a good top speed. I ran it today at 14a LCD C5>08 although there was a strong northerly wind it stayed cool to the touch after 5 miles. I will post my findings, I mean ramblings on my thread when enough time has passed.

 

[Bogmonster666]

I think I would probably be less concerned with a lower torque motor on a front hub. My very old conversion was front but with steel forks.

It certainly sounds like the xf07 is not suitable for me. A yose power front 210 rpm 'may' work...but I suspect I will stick with my original plan and wait for the Whoosh kit to come into stock. The Whoosh kit costs a lot more but I think it will serve me better.

It's actually nice having a bike that is now mechanically sound for manual drive (brakes that work, new drivechain), my old chain and cassette were beyond knackered...the bike is scruffy but that's ok, so am I.

I am quite fit but not really cycling fit, caving, climbing and walking is my thing. But I am slowly getting a bit cycling fitter. I do have a hip problem that is keeping my osteopath in beer tokens, don't think it is serious but it's slowing me down a bit.

I really only need assistance on hills, I can get up steep hills but not at a speed I find acceptable. Therefore, a motor with good lower speed torque is what I need, especially as my bike is often quite loaded up with caving kit.

I am now firmly under 11 stone and well on my way to a target 10 stone 7.

 

[PC2017]

I really only need assistance on hills

Yep even at 36v the YOSE will do well, but slow up hills, just stay clear of really steep hills with a low voltage remaining in the battery or you may struggle especially in head winds, tbf head winds was my issue with 36v, when winter riding, it caned my legs.

 

[Bogmonster666]

Yep even at 36v the YOSE will do well, but slow up hills, just stay clear of really steep hills with a low voltage remaining in the battery or you may struggle especially in head winds, tbf head winds was my issue with 36v, when winter riding, it caned my legs.

It's a shame I can't really try before I buy. Last time I had an ebike it was always winter (cold and strong winds) that the battery voltage would sag on the steep hills close to home and would cut out. I live on a hill so there is always a big hill in the last few miles...it was fine for shorter journeys where the battery will still have plenty of juice but a problem when battery was already quite depleted after a longer journey.

That's why I think a good motor choice and high current discharge battery will be important - as these suffer less from sag. The sag on hills is self fulfilling, the speed drops, the motor efficiency decreases, heat is generated...

 

[Bogmonster666]

I have had a look at the akm motors in the simulator and they actually appear to perform ok. I would absolutely need the 201rpm variant. The sellers on eBay and Amazon are very vague about the motor model they ship...I have asked ysbatteryuk on eBay for specific details about motor model and cells used in battery..where have people bought from where they felt the seller was reliable - I'm in the UK.

This is the kit I asked about: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334052993457?hash=item4dc71c29b1:g:go8AAOSwr-Ng8jL6&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4NNtvpB96y5Qp78c8HOAHVNBUpGaKqlAaSVULn4DTCSjIuafn1/Ap4lCYVVb1dnoQkx60tkiXmwieU1R26Z5K1dAqlt/pGj5n310/5Ud3YMaOgD7N0m3CBlhNYBfpCSQ8gsqDLFp++klHrBUsPp0yyz04wQrE0G7yOVWkfKt/ylGB9/9EiepNpfbM1+iuKnL3n3xJHLTqtUBjfpfPVRK+e5S9E5yWtNP3438OcoNosxlsBOJR29dmy/g5BuaU7wI79Jlkzjwx8wfkDsdYkbs98A0EAcPkYj8NEM3ScojqdSp|tkp:BFBMlri_qs5g

 

[Bogmonster666]

From what I can see the hub motor is likely an akm 100sx 201 rpm. I can see a g75 and g128 in the simulator. Guessing the 100sx performance is somewhere in between? That is a process of elimination, the 100sx being the only front 100mm 250w 201 rpm motor I can find from akm.

Anybody got experience with this particular motor?

 

[PC2017]

Anybody got experience with this particular motor?

There should be someone about, Maybe start a new thread with the motors as the title, some of these motors have been loosely covered elsewhere, try the search or Endless Sphere forum.

I assume, you are not too bothered about speed, with the whole keeping it legal. Afaik a low RPM motor will handle hills better but I think it will be restricted in high winds from my experience with the YOSE front. I prefer the YOSE front on 48v and if I was concerned about the legalities of my system I would not add a throttle, restrict the top speed and using the KT LCD3/4/5/ etc you can reduce the amp draw from the controller using the C5 setting as I have done with the xf07 to decrease the acceleration if its too snappy. As for batteries most good quality BMS will be safe to 20-25a and the standard for controller draw is 15a-17a with 3rd party or bigger controllers doing 20a+, these are often abused and over time tend to kill batteries and controllers, but I can't see you doing that with your ideas. The YOSE would be ideal that 210-220 at 48v add 33% more rpm and reduce the amp draw, it should handle steep hills all day long & remember the bigger the battery this better the range, but also adds weight & keep the controller in the open to allow airflow if anything will cut out it will be the controller but I only get that with my all black controller in the summer heat.

 

[Bogmonster666]

Yes, speed is not my top priority - on the flat I can keep up an acceptable pace (unless too windy). But I want to not bog down too much on hills. I wonder if the yose power kit controller and display will work on 48v - guessing not. The pswpower batteries look to have branded cells for reasonable prices.

 

[PC2017]

48v - guessing not

Highly doubt it, every motor will be slightly different from the factory and could possibly be different from mine, I purchased in 2018 and they have changed the controller brand so motor design/supplier is highly possible however that motor as long as it is 9pin should work with KT stuff, mine at 48v rpm circa 290 loves hills, no over heating but I do keep it to 14a and 600(ish) watts max in bursts unless hill climbing, I do live in a hilly area with plenty of long steep hills that most normal bikes walk up. As for Lishui controllers there is a lot of ppl who ask if they can tweak settings and sadly without oem software the options are limited, with KT you have near enough full control and most settings have been figured from the Chinglish manuals.

The pswpower batteries look to have branded cells for reasonable prices.

I find that some of these batteries may have decent cells, as mine is "LG" but after searching the codes I only found reference to them ever been sold in China as a Chinese market only type cell. Although it has been said unless you remove the case & strip back the plastic you never truly know what you get, one guy recently got a £175 battery from aliexpress, I can only assume he did his due diligence and after 8 months his battery failed he now has no recourse as the CS is not answering his messages. There is an element of pay your money and take your chance, that's why most people use a UK base company as they have a better relationship with there China supplier and can recourse on your behalf reducing the sting out of "if something goes wrong" that said after 1 year of warranty unless otherwise stated most are up the creek without a paddle if something does go wrong & sometime customers chance it after abusing there equipment and expect recourse I suppose it swings both ways.

 

[Bogmonster666]

I did get an eBay response back from yose power (ysbatteryuk) but as expected it was quite vague. As expected the cells are no name affairs. The motors are slower ~200rpm, but no specific model given, and no details of the display.

I am sure they are ok but the lack of detailed info isn't great. I expect it's down to various reasons including confusing models and specs from manufacturers and trying to dissuade people from sourcing their own components.

Overall though, although the kits are not expensive, it does not inspire confidence. I would imagine most folks planning their own install to want to do a fair amount of research as buying the wrong kit is still a bummer, particularly in the current financial crisis. Also, part of cycling more is environmentally motivated for me so want to buy once.

My inclination is to stick with the original DSG22C kit idea from Whoosh.