Yose power, 700c wheel, rear or front question?

[logicped]

- I have a hybrid bike with rack, pad brakes, 700c wheels
- Currently looking for a 'minor-moderate' assist solution so I can do up to 20 miles instead of 10, so minor hills.
- No off road, just back roads.
- Low budget

Looking at Yose Power on ebay, they supply a front hub kit minus the battery for £175. They will shortly have some rear kits in stock (the rear being slightly higher power). Battery is an extra £159 that I can see. A total of around £330 all in which seems like a reasonably priced solution to me.

The front seems like an easier fit too. Besides the extra power, what are the benefits of a rear over the front? Thanks

 

[sjpt]

Front can slightly affect steering. You need robust forks for front to be safe. Front can slip on steep roads or paths with loose gravel because of less weight on front wheel; but against that you have the advantage of separate drive from you and the motor, so if the front slips you may still have your traction at the back.

The slightly higher power Yose kits are 350w, which is technically illegal to ride as a pedalec. Motor no more than 250w, assisted speed no greater than 15.5mph/25kph. Actually the 350s may well be the same power as the 250w ones, just marked differently; but legality depends on marked power. Peak power will be much higher in either case, at least 400w; maybe up to 700w or more.

Quite a lot of rear hubs come as freewheel versions; make sure you get appropriate freewheel or cassette version for you, or be prepared to buy new freewheel.

Check that your rack will be suitable for the rack battery if you go for the rack battery. It seems oddly cheaper than the frame battery. Frame battery better for weight distribution if it will fit.

Don't go for the very cheap direct drive hubs; often marked with very high power (750 or 1000w). Illegal, inefficient, need large expensive battery and bad at hills.

 

[Sturmey]

Hi. Just to add to above, I have fitted and used both the front 250w and the rear 350w yose hubs on 700c wheel bikes, so here are my observations. Both kits have some similarities but there are important differences and both kits have there advantages.
The 350w rear kit has a motor rpm of 270-290 which makes it fast (20mph+).
The 250w front kit has a motor rpm of 200-220 which makes it slower (15-17mph).
The 350w rear kit (with a heavy rider) brakes the occasional spoke, whereas the 250w front seems to never brakes spokes.
The rear 350w kit (because of high rpm) controller gets very hot with hills or strong winds in face. The 250w is much better in this respect.
For the reasons above, (imo) the 250W front is a good choice for a reliable utility ( and legal?) kit whereas the 350W is a good choice for someone that wants a sportier kit (and has the legs to assist when needed).

 

[logicped]

That's really useful thank you! Yes, rack is decent. I can't understand why the frame battery is 100 euros more than the rack battery. Is the 36v 12ah battery sufficient at 159 euros? Or anything else recommended. I can't see why I would need anything bigger with a max of 15 miles each ride.

Front can slightly affect steering. You need robust forks for front to be safe. Front can slip on steep roads or paths with loose gravel because of less weight on front wheel; but against that you have the advantage of separate drive from you and the motor, so if the front slips you may still have your traction at the back.

Check that your rack will be suitable for the rack battery if you go for the rack battery. It seems oddly cheaper than the frame battery. Frame battery better for weight distribution if it will fit.

 

[logicped]

Thank you for this, incredibly useful. I will check my front suspension forks later and make sure they are beefy enough. The price difference is negligable to be honest, so I may just go for the rear kit. I am not a big chap either.

Hi. Just to add to above, I have fitted and used both the front 250w and the rear 350w yose hubs on 700c wheel bikes, so here are my observations. Both kits have some similarities but there are important differences and both kits have there advantages.
The 350w rear kit has a motor rpm of 270-290 which makes it fast (20mph+).
The 250w front kit has a motor rpm of 200-220 which makes it slower (15-17mph).
The 350w rear kit (with a heavy rider) brakes the occasional spoke, whereas the 250w front seems to never brakes spokes.
The rear 350w kit (because of high rpm) controller gets very hot with hills or strong winds in face. The 250w is much better in this respect.
For the reasons above, (imo) the 250W front is a good choice for a reliable utility ( and legal?) kit whereas the 350W is a good choice for someone that wants a sportier kit (and has the legs to assist when needed).

 

[sjpt]

That's really useful thank you! Yes, rack is decent. I can't understand why the frame battery is 100 euros more than the rack battery. Is the 36v 12ah battery sufficient at 159 euros? Or anything else recommended. I can't see why I would need anything bigger with a max of 15 miles each ride.

36v * 12aH should be plenty for that. It's actually marginally bigger capacity than the 11.6aH downtube one. The downtube one has Samsung 29E cells, the rack one has anonymous cells. There are others who can give a better idea of how important that is, or might know more about that specific rack one.

Fitting the rack one isn't always just the weight, it's also how the battery fits on the rack. They usually fit on an extra platform. See for example the picture at https://yosepower.com/collections/ebike-battery/products/ebike-battery-with-black-rear-carrier

 

[logicped]

See what you mean about the rack, I can weld so should be able to sort something permanent ;-)

Thanks again.

Fitting the rack one isn't always just the weight, it's also how the battery fits on the rack. They usually fit on an extra platform. See for example the picture at https://yosepower.com/collections/ebike-battery/products/ebike-battery-with-black-rear-carrier

 

[scott gaza]

Hi the yose rear hubs are now 210rpm with a 18a controller

 

[Nealh]

Hi the yose rear hubs are now 210rpm with a 18a controller

Tbh a much better offering then the faster wound 290 rpm hub, the old faster hub makes the 6 fet KT controller work very hard esp on hills an din top assist. The controllers just can't take it.

 

[Nealh]

250w front is a bit weedy I think about 20/25nm, in steel forks you wouldn't need to worry about fitting torque arms. If you are lightweight then not an issue.

The downtube battery with Samsung 29e cells is one of the best cells in the 2900mah class and is highly regarded, though not sure I would use one with only 40 cells.

 

[Yak]

Just hopping in on this thread; seems like a good spot...my 350 Yose rear kit came with the built in controller which I like as it’s so neat; my worry from reading owners comments is that the controller appears to be a weak spot, and I’m a big bloke riding and loving steep hills and it’s heading towards summer. Should I be worried? I tend to use PAS 2 or 3 for the steepest bits, with the motor flat out and 0 the rest of the ride. Is there anything I can do to help things? Some hills are 40mins long...

 

[Nealh]

You may be ok in PAS 2 or 3, keep the gears spinning and try not to let the motor speed drop to low. The motor rpm is one deciding factor of how hot the controller might get, a lower rpm winding < 230rpm will be better then a 270 - 300rpm winding.
Too fast a winding on hills will lead to heating if you can't keep the speed to about 50% or more of it's optimum.

 

[scott gaza]

hi if its the new lishui brand you could reduce to 10-13 amps max as pas is speed related apposed to current i know i have just to be on the safe side! luckily i have 26" wheels so current goes down when i get up to 15mph due the the 210 rpm winding's

 

[Yak]

Many thanks both. There’s no indication of the brand on the hub, just an embossed Yosepower emblem. I’ll try to keep going quick enough so the motor doesn’t sound like it’s groaning slowly. So I can reduce the max available amps? And another question (sorry!) - just how waterproof is the kit? Am I ok in a shower? A downpour? Or do I head for home at the first hint of rain (like yesterday!) You guys have so much patience, but it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Scorpio]

Hi, I've just fitted a 350w/36v/12Ah yose rear kit (my first ebike!) and am quickly getting used to it.

Yose 350 rear hub kit - onto Spanish mtb by Mondraker

Background info about these kits (thanks to Nealh & others) see https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yosepower-hub-kits.30061/

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Zoom in on the display in first photo - the layout and "Y02" logo identifies it as Lishui. The controller (in the battery) and display are the Lishui bits, I think the hubs are universal so no useful markings there. 250w is UK legal limit, beware as rear hubs are marked 350w.
Default power was 13amps (some are 15?), I've changed it to 10amp using the instruction manual as I want to run it gently to start with. Level 2 or 3 power is useful, 5 is impressive.
Personal choice. I went for rear hub and a rack (converted from bottle) battery as it's near invisible, I didn't want to advertise it as an ebike when parked in town. Bike is very tail heavy but its not a problem.

Mileage. I was happily cycling 10 mile circuits before I fitted the kit, now I'm happy with 50+ mile circuits (pedalling above the cutoff speed on the flat & downhill, letting the motor do a lot of the work on the uphill bits). Me? I'm not retired yet by getting close, and weigh near 120kg if I'm carrying shopping.

 

[Yak]

Thanks Scorpio - yes mine is an identical kit. The 350w sticker fell off my hub strangely almost immediately ;-)

I’ll drop the max amps as well if I can find the instruction booklet. If you ever find out an answer to the speed cut off points and whether they can be adjusted I’d be grateful for a heads up. They are all slightly wrong for me too. Just about to hit 1000km with the kit since fitted during the lockdown, which is a transformation in the amount of riding I’m doing. I’m absolutely over the moon with the kit to be honest. I weigh 120kg too with shopping - if the shopping consists of a bag of crisps - but was 132kg when all this started. Crisps are just a dream to me now...

I put the battery in the typical position on the down tube and if anything, the handling has improved, though I’ve upped the tyre size to 28mm so just as likely to be that. There’s a downhill Strava segment near my home and I now have the 3rd fastest time on that descent from 600 riders...the single plus we hefty types have over the skin-and-bone road racers! We go downhill FAST!