Yose 350 rear hub kit - transplanted onto Scott !

[Scorpio]

Time for a new project, the main bits are a rather nice Scott 29er (immaculate!) + Yose/Lishui 350w 26” rear wheel kit + random KT parts collected from various places.

Remove the 29er wheels, fit the Yose 26" rear wheel & matching front wheel, modify 180mm caliper to fit the 160mm disk.
Let the fun commence

Footnote - I'm hoping this can be used as a "what worked for me" build thread about this project, questions are welcome but for general chat about "stuff" please use the other discussions rather than clutter this thread. Appreciated

 

[Scorpio]

Backstory:
I bought a very nice Scott bike nearly 10 years ago (it's the 2nd bike I've bought new - the first was when I was a teenager!), got it home and the landlord told me the property I was renting had been sold so I needed to move out. The bike got used for 1 day only then went into long term storage.
Due to lockdown I'm stuck overseas and recently got the bike shipped across here so I could use it as a base to put the Yose kit on that I have been using on an older undersized bike.
While I was waiting to get everything together I've been collecting KT parts so I can convert the original Lishui kit to KT, the conversion got done as part of the transplant.

Links:
Yose/Lishui kit on a Spanish Mondraker bike - and used it as everyday transport for 6 months before removing the kit to use on this project https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yose-350-rear-hub-kit-onto-spanish-mtb-by-mondraker.37899/
KT vs Lishui discussion https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/lishui-controller-and-lcd-vs-kt-controller-and-lcd.36444/
Yose discussion https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yosepower-hub-kits.30061/
KT-LCD3 user guide & codes (thanks @Woosh ) https://wooshbikes.co.uk/manuals/Sport-TS-KT-LCD3-Error-codes.pdf
KT-LCD3 manual (courtesy of BMSB ) https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=5
KT-LCD4 manual (courtesy of GreenBikeKit ) https://www.greenbikekit.com/upload/pdf/kunteng-KT-LCD4-Users-manual.pdf

 

[Scorpio]

First job was to remove the built-in Lishui controller from the Yose battery, then run new wires from the battery to the KT controller in the bag.

Next the PAS. Remove the Hollowtech2 axle (no special tools needed), clip the pas disc onto the low gear, and adjust the gearchange to disable the lowgear. The pas sensor was missing from my KT collection of bits so I used a spare sensor and wired it to suit the KT harness - photo for reference - then used heatshrink to finish the job.

 

[egroover]

I have a 29er frame considering running it with 26" as cannot fit wider tyres as too close to chainstays etc... How's the handling of yours, and how do you find the bottom bracket now lower as a result of running smaller wheels? do the pedals clip the road easily?

 

[Scorpio]

Hi @egroover - it's too early for me to tell you much. Today was the first run (5 miles) since I uncrated the bike and fitted the kit. It's a decent off-road spec but most of my trips are on quiet B-roads and gravel tracks, handling feels good and sharp, I have a habit of always lifting the inside pedal on corners to avoid pedal stikes but it didn't feel like it was any closer than normal.
I would have preferrred to keep 29 rims but the kit I had to hand was 26", first impressions are it rides fine

 

[egroover]

Good to hear it rides well. I might proceed with my plans, easy to revert if it doesn't work out.

Your bike looks trick, I like it. The Curio tyres suit the bike

 

[Scorpio]

I'm using a second hand controller (thanks @PC2017 ) and a new KT-LCD4 display (it was in a sale but I do like the compact layout - especially compared to the larger Lishui & LCD3 screens).

Yesterday the speed on the display was about half the speed according to my gps, today I've tried changing a few settings and the speed on the display is now correct.
For info, KT settings that work for a Yose 26" are P1 = 132, P2 = 1

A quirk? Misprint in the manual? To get into the P../C.. menus the instructions for my LCD4 display say to use the "Down" button - this does nothing. To get into the menus I need to use "Down and UP together" as in the LCD3 instructions

Cribsheet :
Turn on the display.
Quickly hold "Down" and "Up" together to access the initial settings, quick press "On" to move through them.
When done - and display stops flashing - quickly hold "Down" and "Up" together to access the P-menu.

Not a lot done but it's progress

 

[PC2017]

Just checked out your pics - loving the green tyres - I got one of these however not from this seller and watch out for nasty import charges if you do decide to splash out - I got small just to fit cables in I suppose it would fit a small controller but I would still have loads of cables, my controller sits in a saddle bag in the winter and exposed in the summer

They do large or small and are very good quality

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Its a shame Yose don't upgrade their bag design

 

[Scorpio]

@PC2017 I got the tyres from Curio and prices were supercheap (£10 each?), I like them a lot. No punctures and they ride very fast - so less battery used on a trip! They are ideal for the routes I use but will have no grip off-road, horses for courses...

I've been using the Yose bag and it was fine - until I rewired the new controller today
I replaced the temporary battery wires with new + and - from the battery to the controller in the bag (using flexible conduit trunking), the conduit was a tight fit through the eye in the bag but passed ok, until I tried to pull some slack and pulled the eye from the bag. Nor critical but it's annoying.

Photos are in the link for anyone thinking of swapping a Yose Lishui controller to KT

Help! - Lishui controller and LCD vs KT controller and LCD

Thanks, Scott, for the very helpful instructions page link - the display in my kit (Yose Power C500 it looks like from ebay seller ysbattery-2012) looks like it can be user set: Just have to be careful not to go over what the components can take (controller 18A for example).

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[PC2017]

What amp KT controller did you go for? is it sinewave or square? I bet it's sweet now your KT'd up.

I've got to rewire my entire setup when the warmth returns, strip the bike down replace a failing PAS that works when it feels like it and try and make a 2 year old bike that's done 4000+ miles last a year longer to save up for high end project, not mentioning the lack of new bikes due to supply issues...

 

[Scorpio]

What amp KT controller did you go for?

It took a while to get everything together but I’m using the 22A controller I got from you last year. All was good on a quick test ride

Shame I’ve not had the chance to see how it works on a run due to weather. One downside of a nice bike is that every time I take it out I spend more time cleaning mud off it than riding! It's a new experience for me.
No panniers on this bike yet so I can't even use it for my shopping trip to give it some use.
Another cloudburst today so wet ground for another few days. Roll on summer

 

[PC2017]

I spend more time cleaning mud off it than riding

I know that feeling all to well, I got a puncture to fix today on my front hub so am going to try and strip the suspension and clean that... Can't wait to get started lol.

Are you running that on a 48v battery? I never tested the dual voltage aspect... If you are 48v don't forget when you get to low voltage range some dual voltage controllers get a tad confused my 14a sometimes thinks the 48v has become a 36v battery am sure the BMS would cut the power but some might even go lower than 39v and thats not my idea of fun.

 

[Nealh]

I have no issue with LVC with KT dual controllers, I use 10, 12 & 13s without issues with both 6 & 9 fet controllers.

 

[PC2017]

I have no issue with LVC with KT dual controllers

I don't think its anything to do with the battery, cell series or fets... It's simply the way the controller recognises a 36v battery or a 48v battery... If, on the rare occasion I happen not to fully charge my 48v and find my self hitting a steep hill of north Lincolnshire close to home at 42v(48v battery) which I know you don't let your batteries get that low, and for the most neither do I. The dual controller will LVC under load as it should, however if it switches off the LCD and I manual switch it back on, the display voltage will be say 41.5v and then the battery level indicator will be full and the controller will think I've just swapped out the 48v battery for a 36v battery starting at full(ish) charge 41.5v. Then it allows me, albeit for the few mile journey home to use a few volts on PAS 1 to ride and not trigger LVC which it technically should as it's still using a 48v battery.... If that makes sense...

 

[vfr400]

I don't think its anything to do with the battery, cell series or fets... It's simply the way the controller recognises a 36v battery or a 48v battery... If, on the rare occasion I happen not to fully charge my 48v and find my self hitting a steep hill of north Lincolnshire close to home at 42v(48v battery) which I know you don't let your batteries get that low, and for the most neither do I. The dual controller will LVC under load as it should, however if it switches off the LCD and I manual switch it back on, the display voltage will be say 41.5v and then the battery level indicator will be full and the controller will think I've just swapped out the 48v battery for a 36v battery starting at full(ish) charge 41.5v. Then it allows me, albeit for the few mile journey home to use a few volts on PAS 1 to ride and not trigger LVC which it technically should as it's still using a 48v battery.... If that makes sense...

That's interesting. have you actually experienced it switching voltage during a ride? Mine is 36v/48v and I recently ran the battery to cut-out on a steep hill, and it cut out about three times altogether, as I gradually had tom turn down the power to get home. It didn't switch to 36v.

 

[Scorpio]

I'm running this at 36V for now, but I'd like to try 48V at some point (getting another battery will also mean I have a complete Yose kit spare - and I have plans for that when the time comes )

Interesting about 36/48V controllers with a flat 48V battery restarting as a fully charged 36V but it will be a long time before I go 48V to see for myself. Thanks for the input.

I'm now back to waiting for some sunshine to go play

 

[PC2017]

I have a complete Yose kit spare

Check with YOSE and see if they use the same battery housing(case) as your current 36v battery for their 48v model and if they do, you could use your dual voltage controller (my 14a was £35) and swap batteries out, that's what I do, I have all dolphin case batteries 2x 36v and 1x 48v, I can do a good 40-50 mile summer ride on 2 batteries.

My motor is so called "rated" for 36v - its fine to run at 48v in fact I think it likes it its done 2000 miles as 48v (and 3000+ as 36v) and all is well, I run it at 14a max, circa 600w on a hill climb, 7-8a continuous(sinewave) around 300w cruising speed on PAS 4/5 and even though it's the black front YOSE 250w it's never over heated even in 22 degs weather, the black controller did though, I will try the 17a silver this summer however that's square wave. It is true what they say, you can expect 25-30% boost in speed... pepped my little motor up to 350w spec and tight windings to boot so great up hills...

switching voltage during a ride

Not per say, it will LVC when 40v hits, cut the power and once switched back on it will read as a 36v battery. How far it will go down voltage wise I would assume would be dictated by the batteries BMS, I read some have a internal LVC of 38v but I would not like to test that. The most I pushed it too was 39v seen on the LCD and a resting voltage of 39.7, then on charge and never again.

 

[Scorpio]

The conversion from Lushui to KT was completed a while ago, and the wiring tidied up soon after. Since then I’ve been waiting for a dry day.

Normally I use bikes for road commuting, today was the first decent day for months so I went out on some rural tracks.
A nice ride but no use for comparing KT/Lushui performance as it was very different riding to what I’m use to.

 

[Scorpio]

The pas sensor is now working properly, the temporary fixings and packing pieces can stay as they are for now, if they cause problems in the future I’ll redo them more securely. @Yak - similar would work for you?

 

[Scorpio]

The Velcro straps that came with the bag soon started to mark the paintwork so I used some box section to make a bracket to hold the bag onto the bottle mountings on the seatpost.
2 bolts to hold the bracket to the frame, a piece of cork behind the bracket to protect the paintwork, quick spray black, then fix the bag in place by bending the fingers on the bracket through the fixing loops on the bag.
Much neater !