Yose 350 rear hub kit - onto Spanish mtb by Mondraker

[PatM]

The thread seems to bounce around a bit, or maybe It my lack of attention to reading all the posts, which go back a few years.
I have a front wheel conversion from Yosepower which was bought on the cheap in AUGUST 20 just to convert a spare ally MTB I had, which had a decent spec when I bought it back in the mid 2000's
I also have an ebike I built and modded back in 2009. which is still going fine, front wheel and probably a 350w motor running a Lyen 15a controller at 36v sourced from Ecrazyman
The YosePower is can bus , plug n play and was up and running in about an hour and a half.
Its got the LCD display (C500) , but as stated earlier- you cant really do much with it except adjust the PAS levels.

Its also not as powerful as my 'old faithful' But I get more of a workout!

I will be interested to upgrade/replace the controller at some stage and maybe the display, reading this- as I know the motor is capable of more.

I assume my options are limited to the KT range, due to the simplistic can-bus wiring?

 

[Nealh]

These kits are not CANbus like Bosch, Shimano or Yamaha etc,etc, any generic battery can be used. The only part that is semi Canbus (if use wish t call it that) is controller/display which need the same matching programming protocols supplied via the tx/rx lines.
All or most digital comms are like that on kits but at least it means you are not tied to a dealer or any particular battery type, if changing controller then all that is needed is a compatible display. In the case of KT some vendors use opposing M/F connectors so always bets to buy from the same vendor.

 

[Dali]

Yosepower's current offering of the Lishui is hopeless - 5 unadjustable levels with a high RPM motor means for UK/EU legal use (25kph limit) levels 3,4 and 5 are basically the same = just 2 speed levels???

When I asked Yose for the RPM (rear 350w) I received this reply:

"Hello,
the motor for 700C has RPM 230-250."

 

[Philg93]

When I asked Yose for the RPM (rear 350w) I received this reply:

"Hello,
the motor for 700C has RPM 230-250."

Unless my sums are wrong, using the quoted level settings this gives speeds of 8,11,14,17 and 20mph with 240rpm wheel, and this agrees with my measurements.

This is exactly my beef, with 15.5mph limit levels 3,4 and 5 are basically the same. The 26" wheel is even worse.

Using the KT's % level settings, assuming they are the same when set to speed control it is even worse than Lishui (IMO) giving 2,4,6,9 and 19mph ??

I can see now why speed control isn't most peoples favourite - my Swytch controller is the only one I would recommend, up to 9 levels, all user settable.

 

[Nealh]

Unless my sums are wrong, using the quoted level settings this gives speeds of 8,11,14,17 and 20mph with 240rpm wheel, and this agrees with my measurements.

This is exactly my beef, with 15.5mph limit levels 3,4 and 5 are basically the same. The 26" wheel is even worse.

Using the KT's % level settings, assuming they are the same when set to speed control it is even worse than Lishui (IMO) giving 2,4,6,9 and 19mph ??

I can see now why speed control isn't most peoples favourite - my Swytch controller is the only one I would recommend, up to 9 levels, all user settable.

With the KT you are confusing the % levels as they are for the current supplied and not the speed supplied. With KT in current control mode one gets max speed in all 5 assist levels. I can't tell you what the speeds are in each level using speed control mode as I have neve tried it.

 

[Philg93]

With the KT you are confusing the % levels as they are for the current supplied and not the speed supplied. With KT in current control mode one gets max speed in all 5 assist levels. I can't tell you what the speeds are in each level using speed control mode as I have neve tried it.

Not confused, just an assumption - as I wrote
<Using the KT's % level settings, assuming they are the same when set to speed control>

I will investigate and report back!

 

[Philg93]

Just tried an old (02.2019) Yosepower 26" Rear wheel (36V 350W) on a workbench and measured the maximum speed with controller set to the default 'torque imitation' and it maxed out at 24.5mph.
Battery was at 37.9V

Then set P3=0 for speed control and measured the 5 PAS levels as below.
OK under speed control the 5 are indeed different, but with a high RPM wheel just as useless.

​	MPH​	kph​	RPM​	​
1​	15.3​	24.6​	198​	62%​
2​	17.7​	28.5​	229​	72%​
3​	19.5​	31.4​	252​	80%​
4​	21.8​	35.1​	282​	89%​
5​	24.5​	39.4​	317​	100%​

If Yose are supplying motors at 230-250rpm then (for 26" wheel) the speed using the above % would be 11.6, 13.4, 14.8, 16.5, 18.6mph so just as sub-optimal as the Lishui.

Absent any user control over the levels, only a 201rpm motor should be specified.
When my motors do expire I'll probably order one from Topbikekit and build into a better/matching rim

 

[vfr400]

Just tried an old (02.2019) Yosepower 26" Rear wheel (36V 350W) on a workbench and measured the maximum speed with controller set to the default 'torque imitation' and it maxed out at 24.5mph.
Battery was at 37.9V

Then set P3=0 for speed control and measured the 5 PAS levels as below.
OK under speed control the 5 are indeed different, but with a high RPM wheel just as useless.

​	MPH​	kph​	RPM​	​
1​	15.3​	24.6​	198​	62%​
2​	17.7​	28.5​	229​	72%​
3​	19.5​	31.4​	252​	80%​
4​	21.8​	35.1​	282​	89%​
5​	24.5​	39.4​	317​	100%​

If Yose are supplying motors at 230-250rpm then (for 26" wheel) the speed using the above % would be 11.6, 13.4, 14.8, 16.5, 18.6mph so just as sub-optimal as the Lishui.

Absent any user control over the levels, only a 201rpm motor should be specified.
When my motors do expire I'll probably order one from Topbikekit and build into a better/matching rim

It's not as bad as that because the power ramps down as you approach the max speed in each level. On level 4, you'll get less power at 15.5mph than on level 5.

 

[Philg93]

It's not as bad as that because the power ramps down as you approach the max speed in each level. On level 4, you'll get less power at 15.5mph than on level 5.

Agreed, the controllers are nicely progressive in that regard which is why I still use them.
More speed levels are useful though, especially when group riding with others. The Lishui display has facility for 9 levels like the Swytch, my complaint is why can't we access these menus.

At 41.5V battery the speeds will be higher of course! - why is this?

 

[vfr400]

Agreed, the controllers are nicely progressive in that regard which is why I still use them.
More speed levels are useful though, especially when group riding with others. The Lishui display has facility for 9 levels like the Swytch, my complaint is why can't we access these menus.

At 41.5V battery the speeds will be higher of course! - why is this?

The max motor speed is proportional to voltage because motors generate a back emf that cancels out the voltage. At the theoretical maximum speed, the generated reverse voltage is the same as the battery voltage, so the net voltage is zero and no current will flow. The back emf is generated according to the rule emf=Kv x rpm, where Kv is the motor constant which depends on the number of turns of wire in the motor's coils.

 

[Philg93]

Thanks for that, good explanation.

 

[Nealh]

That's why a lot of users like current control use, one can cycle at any speed without having pre set limits. One just selects the current one requires without having to have max power in every level like speed control.

 

[Philg93]

I can cycle at any speed - above my set level, which is normally a fair bit lower than my usual cruising speed.

If I find myself slowing down it is due to the start of a climb (or strong wind) and if I fall below the set level the power feeds in gently like a considerate mate giving you an arm up.

If I have slowed to the extent that max power is provided, then it's a virtual certainty that on my KT current control bike I would still have selected max power - having speed control just saves you the bother of pressing the buttons.

Speed control does take a different mindset but my preferred MO after a couple of decades of stupidly long Audax rides is to ride at constant effort, at whatever speed that happens.
Speed control is more to my taste, obviously YMMV

Whilst I may moan about Lishui's lack of levels, I will also level that complaint about KT and their fixed 5 current levels, especially the jump from L4 (50%) to L5 (100%)

Swytch is far better than either of the Yosepower offerings, IMO.

 

[Scorpio]

Just to update the thread I returned to the uk and it took less than a week before I decided to go back to Portugal.

The bike is still running fine and recently passed 1500kms (since fitting the kit in June), now I’m looking forward to the last bits of my convert-to-KT kit that should be here by next weekend.

Now I’ve got used to the bike, I’d advise anyone doing similar to go for 48v kit. The recent yose 48v/12ah battery under €200 flash sale was very tempting but I resisted - still not sure if I did the right thing

Top tip for anyone visiting Portugal - bikes are welcome on public transport and it’s a very cheap way to move around. Today was a 100km round trip most of it on the train, cost was €4 each way.

 

[Scorpio]

Just to close this - the Yose kit has been removed to use it on a new project and will be converted from Lishui to KT as part of the transplant.

Yose 350 rear hub kit - transplanted onto Scott !

Time for a new project, the main bits are a rather nice Scott 29er (immaculate!) + Yose/Lishui 350w 26” rear wheel kit + random KT parts collected from various places. Remove the 29er wheels, fit the Yose 26" rear wheel & matching front wheel, modify 180mm caliper to fit the 160mm disk. Let the...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

The kit worked fine and never let me down but I'm not sure I'd buy another Lishui controller (I'll know more once I've spent some time with the KT kit)

Ride safe