Yose 250w. rear hub motor with Lishui 350w. controller?

[Cadence]

HI,
Finally joined after lurking for a while as a visitor!
I've just bought a Yose 36v. 250w rear motor kit (cassette) and in the process of fitting. I bought the 250w. kit because it had black spokes to match my front wheel. I would have preferred the 350w kit but that has silver spokes. I realise that the 250w kit is "street legal" and has a 6km limit on the throttle, but would really like a full throttle. That's not possible with this kit. It has a c500 display and a JYT sine wave controller.



It looks like I could straight swap the battery carrier with the one containing a Lishui controller in the 350w kit.

Integrated Lishui Controller in Hailong Battery holder with 5 Gold-pla (yosepower.com)

It has the same Julet plugs and contacts for the battery.
Both the 250w and 350w kits have the same c500 display.

QUESTIONS
Are all the parameters set in the controller, or are there likely to be other issues (motor or display)?
The c500 display is sold separately by Yose, but they don't specify options so I assume it's the same for all kits without any programming by the vendor?
The 250w motor is listed on Yose's website with 58Nm max torque whereas the 350w is listed at only 35Nm. I find this puzzling but my knowledge of electrickery is very basic. The 250w JYT controller is listed as sign-wave, but the 350w Lishui isn't stated. Could this be the difference?
It would appear that the Lishui contoller will give a full throttle and higher max speed. I'm not bothered about a higher max speed and really bought the kit for help up the hills. I'm guessing that the higher amp rating of the Lishui controller will show an improvement over the 250w one?
Finally, is this likely to work, and it it does am I putting the 250w motor under any excessive stress?

Please note that as this is a new kit I am not looking to do any other mods such as 48v. The 250w kit comes with a 36v 12.5Ah. battery - same as the 350w.
Many thanks for reading this and looking forward to any responses.

 

[Cadence]

As an update to my post above, I took the risk and bought an integrated controller/battery mount from Yosepower (Lishui 350w. 18A max. current) and fitted it in place of the JYT 250w. 15A max current integrated controller. This has "unlocked" the throttle settings so I can now use it up to 20km/h rather than the 6km/h limit - either as a straight "full throttle" or in line with the PAS levels. Setting the max amps to 16A seems to gain a bit more torque from the 250w. motor, but I have not yet had the chance to give it a good test ride.
I wasn't bothered about increasing top speed, but was a little disappointed that the new controller didn't support changing the top speed in the C500 display settings.
However.....
I ordered another kit (350w.) for my winter bike. I decided to try the C500 display from this kit with the set-up on bike No1, and was surprised that this did indeed allow top speed setting! There are no markings that identify either display and the paper instructions are both V1.0.
If I wanted to increase the top speed on both bikes it seems that I would have to buy another C500 display for bike No 2. Still, I'm happy with things as they are, but thought this info might be useful to somebody else!
Incidentally, both the 250w. and 350w. motors have a "UK" sticker on them.

 

[jimmyz8888]

Hi just out of interest, does the 350w motor has obvious marking on it showing as a 350w motor? I am thinking of buying the 350w kit due to being able to derestrict the top speed, but is just a bit concerned it would be very obviously 350w rather than the legally required 250w. Many thanks.

 

[Cadence]

It depends on what you would regard as obvious.
Here is the 250w in black:-



....and the 350w in silver:-



A sticker from ebay is big enough to cover the markings completely:-

 

[sjpt]

In the (unlikely) event of close scrutiny, eg after an accident, a 250w sticker over a motor with a 350w engraving will certainly count against you in the decision whether to prosecute, and in (extremely unlikely) any resulting trial.

 

[jimmyz8888]

Thank you. I think probably a 250w motor with a 350w controller is probably a slightly safer bet. I just wanted a little bit of assistance above 15 mph on the road with cars potentially speeding past me at 30 40 mph. So do you know if the 250w motor with 350w controller will go much beyond 20mph? I will probably do most of the pedalling but it would be great to get some assistance at that speed. Many thanks

 

[Nealh]

No such thing as a 250, 350w controller etc, etc.
Controllers are sold with current ratings and as such these ratings have no wattage rating.

 

[jimmyz8888]

Sorry I meant as the OP said above, the controller that Yose packs with their 350w kit instead of the 250w kit. The one the comes with the 350w kit apparently allows you to derestrict the limit with a new display, whereas the 250w kit does not.

 

[Cadence]

Depending on your wheel size, you won't get much above 18mph with the 250w motor and 18a controller and new c500 display. In real riding terms it is a significant improvement though, as the 18a controller "ramps down" smoothly to the maximum speed, whereas the 15a controller that comes with the 250w kit cuts the motor off abruptly at 15.5mph.
I posted some details on the Yose setups I have on 3 bikes here, including max speeds achieved:-

Yosepower Rear Hub Motor Comparison Test

I've now converted three bikes using Yosepower rear hub motors and been able to make some comparisons. They are:- AKM95RX RC 250w. cassette 700c. wheel. Yosepower claim 25Km/h top speed (with a speed-limited 15A controller) and 58Nm torque. AKM95RX RC 350w. cassette 26" wheel. Yosepower claim...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I also had the urge to go faster than the 15.5mph limit, but I've since found that I rarely do so, even though I can. 10-12 mph is plenty fast enough with all the potholes to dodge. Cars doing 30-40mph get past more easily and more quickly as well.

 

[thelarkbox]

Fwiw topbikekit stock 36v KT controllers that fit inside a hailong battery sled. If bothered by the limitations of the 250w yose-power kit I would opt for the kt controller refit, over the 350w version of controller/display..
the 17a version should provide enough juice to allow you to cruse circa 20mph, if your happy with your bike and its stopping distance at that speed.


However if just fitted i would urge you to ride the bike for a week or two before taking the plunge into modding as you may find the bike works just fine as is and just needs a bit of getting used to.. especially if having a m/cycle or moped history, as the twist grip throttle is a difficult expectation to overcome.

it took me a wee while to realise pas levels were simply fixed speed levels and therfore with only a minor shift in expectations could provide a use-able system after all. and if your bike suits you within the regs all the better

 

[jimmyz8888]

Thanks very much Cadence for the info, thats exactly what I am looking for. I have an Apollo Phaze-E ebike, a pretty rubbish bike by any standards, with a 24v 250w motor. The one I have was for some reason unrestricted from new, probably because it has so little power. I fitted it with a bigger front chain ring and a wider freewheel, and on some A roads it could almost get to 20mph with me pedalling madly, but the thing is I loved it because it doesn't have that wall, where the limiter cut off suddenly. Recently the controller broke and Halfords replaced it, but this one now has a limiter, and it drove me mad. Thats why I am looking for a kit that will get it back to like it was before.

90% of the time I use assist level 1 and just use it as a normal bike with a little assistance. But on a few A roads it does feel safer on max assistance going as fast as I could. So I think the 250w kit with the 18a controller is just what I am looking for. Thanks again for the info.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks very much Cadence for the info, thats exactly what I am looking for. I have an Apollo Phaze-E ebike, a pretty rubbish bike by any standards, with a 24v 250w motor. The one I have was for some reason unrestricted from new, probably because it has so little power. I fitted it with a bigger front chain ring and a wider freewheel, and on some A roads it could almost get to 20mph with me pedalling madly, but the thing is I loved it because it doesn't have that wall, where the limiter cut off suddenly. Recently the controller broke and Halfords replaced it, but this one now has a limiter, and it drove me mad. Thats why I am looking for a kit that will get it back to like it was before.

90% of the time I use assist level 1 and just use it as a normal bike with a little assistance. But on a few A roads it does feel safer on max assistance going as fast as I could. So I think the 250w kit with the 18a controller is just what I am looking for. Thanks again for the info.

All you need is any 36v battery and a KT controller to make your bike really nice. 36v will give 50% more power and even more speed than you had before. I've converted a lot of 24v bikes to 36v and every owner was very happy afterwards.

 

[jimmyz8888]

That sounds good. I will look into that. Thanks mate.

 

[YOSEPOWER]

Thank you for your support of YOSEPOWER. Please remember to ride safely.

 

[jamesporritt]

Thank you for your support of YOSEPOWER. Please remember to ride safely.

Why do you supply Lishui not KT controllers?

 

[Woosh]

KT controllers let users tinker with the settings, including overvolting the kit from 36V to 48V.
Whenever your kit has a bad setting, it can get damaged. You can see why vendors who care about the excellence of their customer support would not want to go there.

 

[saneagle]

Why do you supply Lishui not KT controllers?

Yose used to provide KT controllers with their kits, then they changed to LiShui. What a shame!

 

[Nealh]

I think tbh Tony you are bias, we know you are a Lishui fan.
Tbh there is only one setting with a KT that can really do any damage and that is C2 but if one changed it one would soon change it back after trying it very briefly.
All the other settings are benign ones , they are dependant on the hub and PAS in use.
The great thing with KT is P1 setting can be set to suit what ever the internal gearing ratio is so covers a wide variety of hubs with low or high ratios.
C1 has an effect depending on the PAS sensor used but again is easy to eventually sort out none of the two can damage a motor or controller.
All of the other settings are benign settings that one can tinker with but overall have no real affect on opperation bar C5 maybe .

 

[Woosh]

You can change maximum current setting , pas type, pas direction, motor sync. You may suss out that some parameters are not right more or less immediately, less experienced users may carry on using bad settings for months. The worst aspect is overvolting. You wouldn't stall a motor for long if overvolted but again, some users might until the clutch dies. Imagine an xf07 front hub running on 20Amp 48V. How long the nylon gears are going to last if the motor is stalled while climbing some steep hill? That's on top of the likelihood of wrecking an aluminium fork. I use only king meter dual hall pas. It's impossible to fit the PAS wrongly, it will work on the drive side as well as on the non drive side, even if you flip the side the magnet disc. Imagine someone making a mistake setting the PAS direction to inverse. He is going to have an accident.

 

[Nealh]

The current setting is little different to your Lishuie's , the current is set to max .
Your 18a setting is 18a a KT 18a setting is 18a , the current setting can only be the max of the controller used.
One can ony reduce the current setting and not increase it, only by fitting a higher rated controller can current be increased.
The motor sync is an issue very rarely does one need to change that value an dif one does one will soon notice it runs like a bag of spanners rattling around.

Tbh we have choices and are never going to agree. I have never had a KT melt my phase connections at 36 or 48v, I did have my 36v Lishui melt the phases at 44v so one reason why the dual voltage controllers are better.