Would you pay £30 to save 1kg?

[Woosh]

Simple question really, would you pay £30 more for the Bafang G370 against the XF07?

Both do the same job, but the Bafang weighs 1.7kgs while the XF07 weighs 2.8kgs, the weight saving is 1.1kg.
Both can be overvolted a bit, maximum torque is 40NM-42NM if you push them.
I trust the XF07 for many years but want to start using the lighter weight G370.

http://www.bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/fm-g370250dv/

 

[Audio2]

Yes I would, 1kg off the rotating front wheel should make a big difference both to steering & response. When are you going to be selling it?

 

[Woosh]

Yes I would, 1kg off the rotating front wheel should make a big difference both to steering & response. When are you going to be selling it?

probably in the Autumn. I am also thinking of putting it on a folding bike.

 

[awol]

Yes I would.
Will there be a rear cassette version at 1.7kg?

 

[Woosh]

Will there be a rear cassette version at 1.7kg?

I did wonder how long before someone would ask that question.
from Aikema, 1.7kgs.
https://www.aikema.com.cn/en/product/G85R.html

 

[anotherkiwi]

How much?

 

[Woosh]

The Aikema G85R costs about the same as the XF08C, for the same voltage.
Only Bafang charge 20%-25% extra because they can.

 

[anotherkiwi]

My question was a bit ambiguous How much do I need one? And/or how much does it cost?

Lace me a 1.7 kg rear hub cassette motor into a Halo SAS 26" rim with black Sapim Strong spokes and red nipples and it would be pretty close to rear wheel heaven...

Two problems when compared to the Bafang RM G310.250 (2.5 kg):

- cable exit through the axle
- motor cover is threaded on it seems

I can live with both of those issues because the speed of the motor is just right. I wonder how come bmsbattery don't sell that particular one , they sell all the others?

Seriously Tony if you can offer the bafang RM G310.250 at a reasonable price (hint: less than 199€ or $258 shipped...) and with some kind of guarantee the magnets won't come unstuck at >350 RPM, I (and I guess many others) am your man.

If 4 people want to do a group buy of the bafang RM G310.250 it would be $130 + shipping from China. If any of you others don't know why you need this motor go and check it out at ebikes.ca

Do Aikema sell "samples" direct?

 

[Woosh]

Do Aikema sell "samples" direct?

there are a few sellers of Aikema motors on aliexpress.
There are new, interesting models coming to the market now and then, but most of our customers are, shall we say, traditionally built. The market for lightweight bikes like my Karoo and the new lighter Karoo is small for us, compared to the Big Bears. We still have to keep all the components for service. It does eat into the bottom line.
My problem is long term commitment. Who knows how many clutch/gearbox units we are going to need in 5 years? That's why I have to concentrate on a few models, so time and time again, we have to source motors from Bafang despite the higher price.

 

[Andy-Mat]

there are a few sellers of Aikema motors on aliexpress.
There are new, interesting models coming to the market now and then, but most of our customers are, shall we say, traditionally built. The market for lightweight bikes like my Karoo and the new lighter Karoo is small for us, compared to the Big Bears. We still have to keep all the components for service. It does eat into the bottom line.
My problem is long term commitment. Who knows how many clutch/gearbox units we are going to need in 5 years? That's why I have to concentrate on a few models, so time and time again, we have to source motors from Bafang despite the higher price.

I don't think I would pay the extra for a lighter motor.
Actually not simply because of the money, (even though my Scottish blood might agree!) but because if the motors are equal performance wise in everything but weight, then the copper coils weigh the same, the rotor will weigh either the same or very close, the sensors the same, the bearings may be lighter, and the casing is then very light! Fragile?
All in all the lighter motor will wear out far faster.....as the difference in weight between the two motors is huge....
So I would save money and have a longer lasting motor!
regards
Andy

 

[anotherkiwi]

Hope it isn't like the bafang sellers, it took me days to find the G310.250...

I agree I am one of many niche customers. I can get by with the stock standard motors used by the masses but I know motors more suited to my needs exist and I would like to be able to buy one. I don't have a solid enough financial situation to set up a web shop stocked with the weird and wonderful and sell them myself but the idea has tickled my fancy more than once... Especially seeing the prices the Germans are asking!

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I don't think I would pay the extra for a lighter motor.
Actually not simply because of the money, (even though my Scottish blood might agree!) but because if the motors are equal performance wise in everything but weight, then the copper coils weigh the same, the rotor will weigh either the same or very close, the sensors the same, the bearings may be lighter, and the casing is then very light! Fragile?
All in all the lighter motor will wear out far faster.....as the difference in weight between the two motors is huge....
So I would save money and have a longer lasting motor!
regards
Andy

I'm not sure that being lighter necessarily means lower reliability. Maybe the heavier motor has an unnecessarily heavy casing, maybe the copper its the field coils are unnecessarily thick.....
Cars are much lighter nowadays compared with say the 1970s but they are hugely more reliable.

 

[Woosh]

the two lightweight motors above benefit from a large reduction ratio 12.5 to 1.
that helps save some weight by spinning the rotor more than twice as fast.
It's the same thing when you compare the Tongsheng TSDZ2 against the Bafang BBS01/02.

 

[Andy-Mat]

I'm not sure that being lighter necessarily means lower reliability. Maybe the heavier motor has an unnecessarily heavy casing, maybe the copper its the field coils are unnecessarily thick.....
Cars are much lighter nowadays compared with say the 1970s but they are hugely more reliable.

Assuming that the motors are designed for the same current and voltage, they will be electrically and electronically as good as Identical.
The main difference will be in the casing, as basically all the rest is "fixed". An aluminum casing, is simply not as strong as say a steel casing would be.
But at the end of the day, everyone must decide for themselves what they prefer to buy.
In the USA, various computers are bought new and stripped down for a magazine article or similar, that's really what we need here, someone rich enough to buy both and take them apart and make a video or photos....but not me!
regards
Andy

 

[KirstinS]

Answer from me is yes but I'd always wait awhile. My days of being an early adopter went years ago as it can be expensive or hassle

 

[Nealh]

The 370 250w 1.7kg marked hub is available for £143.50 and is slow wound 201rpm for torque, max speed 16.5mph in 700c wheel or 1mph slower in 26" wheel.

 

[gw8izr]

Yes I would, 1kg off the rotating front wheel should make a big difference both to steering & response. When are you going to be selling it?

This got me thinking, are you sure that you would feel a difference with such a weight reduction at the centre of the wheel?

I would’ve thought that the weight difference would be noticeable on rebound and droop in the potholes, you would feel it up and down curbs et cetera but once the wheel is spinning the vast majority of the centrifugal force that affects steering is at the rim and tyre.

I’m willing to be contradicted but in terms of steering I reckon you wouldn’t feel any difference.

Carrying it over locked gates and putting it on the car rack et cetera yes you definitely feel it

 

[Woosh]

This got me thinking, are you sure that you would feel a difference with such a weight reduction at the centre of the wheel?

yes, rotational inertia. The Woosh Faro has the lightweight Aikema motor, it feels very much like a push bike except you are given bionic legs.
A bike with a heavy hub motor makes you feel like carrying a gyroscope.
Also, when you turn, the momentum inertia is also smaller, you can feel it.
Crank drive bikes don't have this problem.

 

[Audio2]

Where is this available for £143.50? Will it be available as part of aWoosh kit?

 

[Woosh]

Where is this available for £143.50? Will it be available as part of aWoosh kit?

we've been selling the Aikema 85SXC / Aikema 13.0 in this kit since the new year:

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-121-85sx-13ah/akm13085sx-rear-hub-kit-with-13ah-battery

We don't sell the motor wheel separately at the moment. You need the controller programmed for the motor's parameters to get it synchronise properly and few people have the expertise and equipment for this.

I use the same motor on the Faro.

The Faro | Very Lightweight Electric Bikes from Woosh

The Faro: very lightweight road electric bike from Woosh with hydraulic brakes and in-frame 36V 8AH battery or 20AH external battery.

wooshbikes.co.uk

The kit is the same used on the Faro with external HL battery.