Woosh - more dreadful service

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,613
I don't agree that Parcelforce is dreadful - again, see my (very boring) post towards the end. I think all couriers are pretty similar. It is down to how well you wrap the box (we do it very well , damage is rare) and just hope that Bill your regular driver isn't on holiday, no matter which courier you are using.
Totally different cases Hatti, you despatch goods, I'm a regularly receiving customer.

I'm genuinely pleased that Parcelforce give you a service that is satisfactory but know only too well how far short of that they consistently fall for this customer, and always have done.

When they are the courier, all too often I have no idea which day I'll get an item, let alone when in the day. The tracking facility often isn't available, and even when it supposedly is, it's no use due to very slow updating. I can't spend my life sitting indoors day after day on the offchance that something might arrive.

The rival couriers all give a better service, often infinitely better. With my preferred DPD for example, a recent sequence of three deliveries and a collection all followed this pattern. The day before an email from the supplier telling me the delivery would be next day, then very early the next morning an email from DPD advising the half hour slot, the delivery number and the driver's name, accompanied by an active tracking map so I could see all day long exactly where the driver was and if he's on schedule. They always have been. Almost immediately following that, an email from the supplier advises the same information, ensuring that I'd received it.

You'll see from that how the supplier plays a part, not only in choosing DPD but in being a reliable part of the information process. I've noticed that part of the Parcelforce problem has been that some ( you are excluded of course) of the companies using them fall short with their own part, often delaying despatch (but never delaying taking the payment). That combination of supplier shortfall and Parcelforce failings combine to make for delivery delays and not knowing when they'll take place. Of course as the customer I don't know or care who's to blame, I only know that unsatisfactory service is associated with Parcelforce, and as a result I try to avoid knowingly dealing with companies who use them.

There are differences in my area from most others nationally, since my largest of the London boroughs is a very high density delivery area. My last DPD delivery illustrates this. First thing in the morning the driver was shown as delivering a metaphorical stone's throw away from me in an estate alongside mine, but my number 83 delivery was scheduled for 3.30 PM. He spent the whole day delivering in an area no more than about one mile deep and under two miles wide and I had line of sight of the two delivery points before mine. His longest runs of the day would have been the five miles from the depot to the delivery area and five miles back again at the end of the day.

Of course in some ways that makes it easier to give a good service, but all the couriers have the same benefit and they are all based near each other in the same industrial/commercial zone of the borough. It follows that all should be able to give at least a similar service. As said, they don't, so from my point of view as a receiving customer, it is totally untrue that all couriers are the same, there are consistent differences, most obviously with Parcelforce.
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john h

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 22, 2012
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murthly castle estate
I to have bought bikes from WHOOSH, and recieved great service from Hatti+ staff bit unfare to blame whoosh for the short comings of a delivery company, my one home will not come up on sat navigation it gives the blacksmiths half a mile down the road, i have also found this true of other places that are rurale , most of the times i get asked for directions by parcelforce drivers the drivers here are locale thankfully. ps (never had a problem with gears on my crank drive )
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
How would you describe failing to collect on three separate days ?
It wasn't Woosh that failed to collect. It was the carrier company. I can't see why you're holding Woosh responsible. Why didn't you title your thread "Parcelforce - more dreadful service" (or whoever it was)? I don't think you'll get a lot of sympathy here because your blame is going in the wrong direction.
 

tillson

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May 29, 2008
5,252
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I can't take this thread seriously, if it's about anything at all, it's about poor couriers.

Blaming the bike supplier is unfair.
It is the bike supplier who chooses the courier, so the bike supplier has to accept responsibility for the delivery service. Delivery & collection is inextricably linked to the purchasing and after sales service.

It really annoys me when a company attempts to shovel blame onto one of their subcontractors or suppliers. They choose the supplier, usually on the basis of who can do it for the least amount of cash, and then try to distance themselves if it all goes tits up. There is nothing wrong with using the cheapest sub-contractor in order to keep the overall cost down, but the people appointing them must take it on the chin if it goes wrong.

Conversely, customers shouldn't expect too much from budget retailers. For example, I frequently hear passengers whinging about Ryanair's and Easy Jet's service. If they want a premium experience, they should book with British Airways or other national carrier on a scheduled service, business class.

No doubt Woosh's products are priced such that a person can own an electric bike for less of a hit to the wallet than owning some other brands, it's a sort of Poundland or Ryanair experience and that suits some people. This is clearly evident from the very happy Woosh customers who have contributed above. Others are content to pay more for a John Lewis or British Aiways type experience.

What you can't have is John Lewis customer service for Poundland prices and this is the crux of the problem with the OP. I also note that OP has use / control of the bike, but it was actually purchased by someone else on a tax saving cycle scheme. A scheme which is intended to be used by the participant to cycle to work. Reading between the lines, my guess is that the OP wants it all ways around, premium service at budget prices and a tax free purchase without entitlement. It's not going to happen and he will suffer eternal disappointment.

Woosh bikes most likely cater for the budget market perfectly adequately, and to come on here in order to trash their reputation because they have not delivered a premium service is unfair.
 
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wissy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
543
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Wales
It can be really annoying how couriers work but we know that already don't we? I have just missed a pick-up but it wasn't the shop's fault or indeed the parcel person's fault. I think the communications with different couriers / agencies is an issue which could be improved but they are all now dealing with each other and using different databases it's impossible sometimes to just get things right. I would have been glad if my parcel had gone from the garage yesterday but I imagine the regular courier bloke must have been on his day off otherwise he knows the routine.
 

wissy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
543
46
Wales
The rival couriers all give a better service, often infinitely better. With my preferred DPD for example, a recent sequence of three deliveries and a collection all followed this pattern. The day before an email from the supplier telling me the delivery would be next day, then very early the next morning an email from DPD advising the half hour slot, the delivery number and the driver's name, accompanied by an active tracking map so I could see all day long exactly where the driver was and if he's on schedule. They always have been. Almost immediately following that, an email from the supplier advises the same information, ensuring that I'd received it.


.

I also think DPD are very good.. Quite new on the scene?? The tracking is a bit like stalking the poor guy but they are reliable. So are TNT although no tracking from a source company but TNT always pleasant and helpful on phone. Another good one for this area is Grand prix express... BUT there are some cheap and nasty so-called 'couriers' about... Or rather bloke with a car or a van who happens to offer some sort of delivery sometimes.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,383
16,881
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Totally different cases Hatti, you despatch goods, I'm a regularly receiving customer.

I'm genuinely pleased that Parcelforce give you a service that is satisfactory but know only too well how far short of that they consistently fall for this customer, and always have done.

When they are the courier, all too often I have no idea which day I'll get an item, let alone when in the day. The tracking facility often isn't available, and even when it supposedly is, it's no use due to very slow updating. I can't spend my life sitting indoors day after day on the offchance that something might arrive.

The rival couriers all give a better service, often infinitely better. With my preferred DPD for example, a recent sequence of three deliveries and a collection all followed this pattern. The day before an email from the supplier telling me the delivery would be next day, then very early the next morning an email from DPD advising the half hour slot, the delivery number and the driver's name, accompanied by an active tracking map so I could see all day long exactly where the driver was and if he's on schedule. They always have been. Almost immediately following that, an email from the supplier advises the same information, ensuring that I'd received it.

You'll see from that how the supplier plays a part, not only in choosing DPD but in being a reliable part of the information process. I've noticed that part of the Parcelforce problem has been that some ( you are excluded of course) of the companies using them fall short with their own part, often delaying despatch (but never delaying taking the payment). That combination of supplier shortfall and Parcelforce failings combine to make for delivery delays and not knowing when they'll take place. Of course as the customer I don't know or care who's to blame, I only know that unsatisfactory service is associated with Parcelforce, and as a result I try to avoid knowingly dealing with companies who use them.

There are differences in my area from most others nationally, since my largest of the London boroughs is a very high density delivery area. My last DPD delivery illustrates this. First thing in the morning the driver was shown as delivering a metaphorical stone's throw away from me in an estate alongside mine, but my number 83 delivery was scheduled for 3.30 PM. He spent the whole day delivering in an area no more than about one mile deep and under two miles wide and I had line of sight of the two delivery points before mine. His longest runs of the day would have been the five miles from the depot to the delivery area and five miles back again at the end of the day.

Of course in some ways that makes it easier to give a good service, but all the couriers have the same benefit and they are all based near each other in the same industrial/commercial zone of the borough. It follows that all should be able to give at least a similar service. As said, they don't, so from my point of view as a receiving customer, it is totally untrue that all couriers are the same, there are consistent differences, most obviously with Parcelforce.
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Flecc

I fully agree with you on most points. I do not use DPD except for deliveries to Europe, but do use their sister company, Interlink, within the UK for our smaller parcels and batteries. Their software is excellent and as you say, keeps the customer fully up to date. Parcelforce also have notification software but it does not, I agree, always seem to work properly.

If I could therefore use Interlink systematically for my very large parcels (ie bikes) I would. The service costs only £4 plus VAT more. This isn't the problem - I can swallow this in with our costings. My problem is the high level of damage caused by Interlink through conveyor belt use whilst Parcelforce (and Citylink too) have a far lower damage rate because they manually handle very large parcels at their central distribution hubs.

I spent several hours last year discussing with Interlink the logistics of requesting manual handling but they said that it simply couldn't be guaranteed. I asked if extra large labels on the cartons saying 'Manual handling only' could be used and they said that they would not always be read. I am assuming they have an enormous conveyor belt system which will handle bike sized cartons whilst Parcelforce and Citylink, whilst also clearly having conveyor systems have much smaller ones which do not allow a very large parcel to be fed onto them. I have also heard that the Interlink conveyor system goes upwards by several metres. If a bike falls off from this onto the floor - say from 3 metres - it will probably get damaged! Interlink do also occasionally mis-sort, so a parcel doesn't arrive the next day when it should do, and will not compensate me or the customer since its Ts and Cs allow for this.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall in these distribution hubs.
It would make for interesting viewing.

I welcome feedback on more couriers and would be happy to change if I could find one who accepts to handle manually, with excellent customer orientated software and who will do the job for less than say £24 plus VAT per parcel. DHL and TNT are possibilitiesfor the logistics but their price would be around £80. I asked the OP if he would accept to pay that sort of figure and he didn't come back to me on that one yet. He also hasn't explained the collection from the cellar so maybe RobF was correct! I am still intrigued.........

Hatti
i
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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DHL and TNT are possibilitiesfor the logistics but their price would be around £80.
Hatti
i
Rose use DHL and I found them to be excellent.

I was able to ring the local depot on a landline and the man opened the box and checked the contents when I asked him to.

The bike was in a box, but with no packaging around it - DHL presumably undertake not to chuck it around, so it doesn't need extra padding.

Rose charged me £78 to airfreight from Germany which I thought at the time was probably cost price, or slightly subsidised.

Having said DHL were excellent, I've also read of complaints about them, so no solution is foolproof.

I've seen Paisely Freight recommended as being cheap and offering decent service for bikes, but have no direct knowledge of them.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,383
16,881
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Rose use DHL and I found them to be excellent.

I was able to ring the local depot on a landline and the man opened the box and checked the contents when I asked him to.

The bike was in a box, but with no packaging around it - DHL presumably undertake not to chuck it around, so it doesn't need extra padding.

Rose charged me £78 to airfreight from Germany which I thought at the time was probably cost price, or slightly subsidised.

Having said DHL were excellent, I've also read of complaints about them, so no solution is foolproof.

I've seen Paisely Freight recommended as being cheap and offering decent service for bikes, but have no direct knowledge of them.
RobF

£78 is from Germany to the UK, yes? And that's by air?
That is excellent.
I have noticed that European companies shipping from Europe to the UK are much cheaper than from us in the UK to Europe. How come? Same lorries, same driver rates (probably more, even), same distances. Makes me cross.

I have been quoted £110 plus VAT (best price) for delivery to Europe on a 3 day road service. Most of my European customers balk at this and arrange for a collection themselves so are obviously getting a much better rate.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Hatti
 

wissy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
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my bike has been sent by paisley freight and then they pass it onto TNT.. No problems with them at all although it seems you cannot leave messages with PAisley freight to say where parcel is located etc etc....
 

JohnCade

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May 16, 2014
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an email from DPD advising the half hour slot, the delivery number and the driver's name, accompanied by an active tracking map so I could see all day long exactly where the driver was and if he's on schedule. They always have been.
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Didn't know they were part of the same group as Interlink. Interlink do have a really good tracking system, and you always know when they'll arrive and they are on time. One little peculiarity is that all their drivers seem to be called Adrian...

As in Adrian will be with you in 30 minutes, he has two drops before you.

Don't try asking the driver about it because I really think they don't like the Adrian business, and it is taking the pi*s.
 

wissy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
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Wales
Mine was called Adrian also!! Hmmm...
 

RobF

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Sep 22, 2012
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RobF

£78 is from Germany to the UK, yes? And that's by air?
That is excellent.
I have noticed that European companies shipping from Europe to the UK are much cheaper than from us in the UK to Europe. How come? Same lorries, same driver rates (probably more, even), same distances. Makes me cross.

I have been quoted £110 plus VAT (best price) for delivery to Europe on a 3 day road service. Most of my European customers balk at this and arrange for a collection themselves so are obviously getting a much better rate.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Hatti
Hatti,

You will have forgotten more about couriers than I will ever know, but I imagine Rose have a contract with DHL speccing minimum numbers and probably other things I can't think of.

I'm sure you could strike a deal with them for handling woosh bikes.

Might be worth an inquiry, although I think we both know it will cost more than you pay at the moment, however good your negotiating skills.

Having DHL on board could assist with marketing: 'all bikes shipped by DHL' on your website will reassure come customers.

If you have to charge part of the cost - say £50 - you could then have occasional offers such as 'free shipping this month' or 'free shipping on Big Bears'.

I can't claim that's an original thought - Rose do it from time to time.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,613
all their drivers seem to be called Adrian...

As in Adrian will be with you in 30 minutes, he has two drops before you.

Don't try asking the driver about it because I really think they don't like the Adrian business, and it is taking the pi*s.
Doesn't seem to be the case with DPD in my area, the names change and I've seen no resentment of the system. However, as described my area is very untypical due to the very high delivery density, so a same-name system would very quickly be exposed. On one of my deliveries no name was supplied in the morning email, so I'd guess that was probably due to having a replacement maybe temporary driver. It certainly showed that no false name system was in use.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,214
30,613
My problem is the high level of damage caused by Interlink through conveyor belt use whilst Parcelforce (and Citylink too) have a far lower damage rate because they manually handle very large parcels at their central distribution hubs.
Yes, I understood that Hatti and it was partly why I described our situations as being so different. The largest items I remember receiving was a very large box of nearly 3' x 3' x 2', and an over seven foot long narrow package, but I've never suffered any content damage to date with any courier.

My gripe is solely about service and the desire not to be stuck indoors waiting days for deliveries.
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
It really annoys me when a company attempts to shovel blame onto one of their subcontractors or suppliers. They choose the supplier, usually on the basis of who can do it for the least amount of cash, and then try to distance themselves if it all goes tits up. There is nothing wrong with using the cheapest sub-contractor in order to keep the overall cost down, but the people appointing them must take it on the chin if it goes wrong.
Come on Tilson. That's a bit harsh unless your just generalising, but you have said it in the context of this Woosh situation. I'd agree with you if every time that after an event, which involved a supplier and their courrier, there was a complaint. The supplier should then think about whether they had chosen the right one, but to me, this looks like a one-off situation where the bloke's house was difficult to find and some communication went astray.

I'm in total agreement with the rest of what you wrote.
 

trex

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May 15, 2011
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Tillson, I don't think ParcelForce is that rubbish. You conveniently forgot that Hatti chose ParcelForce because they don't use conveyor belt, your box does not run the risk of being dropped by a machine.

dmsims's house does not have a house number nor a street name.

I quote Hatti:

'This driver could not find your house. In the absence of a street name and in the absence of specific directions for collection due to the system, he simply could not find you.'

dmsims could have called his local depot and talk to them 'when are you going to come? can you tell your driver that my house is behind the pub?'
 

garyten

Pedelecer
Jul 13, 2014
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I work in transport as a driver, and i deal with 2 of the large courier companys on a daily basis.

The van drivers are on a bonus system, delivery targets to get the parcels delivered, they need to work quickly, and if you live in a rural area, with houses sharing the same lane etc, the driver will not risk getting the van damaged or stuck, trying to find the right house, he will just try the first house, then mark it down as "cant find", and get on with the next parcel.

Most Sort centres use the conveyor system, and many of the staff using the conveyor are casual and agency, keeping the regular more experienced staff to do the postcode sorting, so training is minimal, i often see hundreds of small light parcels crushed, because of staff setting heavy items on top of them, and things soaked because of items like flowers or wine set on top, then falling over later.

The industry is price driven, and works best in urban areas, but the smaller company's struggle in more rural locations, this is where Parcelforce really come into play, using the Royal Mails huge transport and depot infrastructure.

In all fairness all the company's do try, but the volume of scale, and managers who are pushing the staff harder / faster, for more efficiency, and reducing costs, don't help.

Ps, It does get a bit worse at Christmas, as the few staff (with even more agency) are exhausted and tired, causing more mistakes and damage.