Wispers and too-low gears

[allen-uk]

Skimming through the Wisper reviews, and having now ridden my new 905se for a few days, I'm beginning to understand the complaints about the gearing.

I used to ride an ordinary bike, 21 gears (how many?), etc. I used the middle front ring most of the time - 85%+. The big front ring got used for quick bursts of hill-climbing, and the smallest front ring got very rare use, mainly on long stretches of ever-so-slightly downhill roads, where the alternative would have been long periods of free-wheeling.

Point I am making is this: I am a SLOW cyclist, by inclination and unfitness.

And yet I keep finding on the Wisper that (even on low or middle power settings), I am being forced to freewheel where I would prefer to have some resistance and carry on pedalling, albeit slowly.

So, the answer other owners seem to have gone for is a smaller front ring - I have seen figures like 36 or 42, and while (generally) I understand what this means, I wonder if this is the best solution. Could, for example, a double ring by easily fitted, with an old-fashioned lever-switch on the handlebars? Or is it best to just drop to a smaller ring?

Opinions very welcomed.


Allen.

 

[Vikki]

Surely a smaller front ring would have you pedalling like a lunatic for not a lot of speed. Do you mean a bigger ring?

Vikki.

 

[allen-uk]

Quite likely, Vikki. Mechanical competence was never my strongest point, so if I've got it the wrong way round, I'm not surprised!

(I think it was the 36s and 42s which led me down this particular path).

A

 

[lemmy]

If you were using the big ring for hills and the little one for speed, no wonder you were slow, Allen

By the way, I had a chat with one of my local bicycle mounted cops yesterday (what a good idea bike mounted police are) and they were very interested in my Tasman.

They were aware of the legal restrictions on e-bikes and were of the opinion that if you were nicked with a bike over the restriction, you would be charged with driving without tax, insurance or helmet (cycle helmets would not be legal on a motor-vehicle, apparently).

They also thought that with so few e-bikes around you were unlikely to be stopped but if they became more popular anyone nicked for riding on a pavement, for example would have their bike checked out. The problem would not be moving under power at over the limit but that the bike was capable of doing so. I was surprised they were aware of the law and how easy it was to mod a bike to break it.

oooer!

 

[Mussels]

I used a 39 tooth chainring as I found the gearing too high for hills, I also got rid of the megarange as it removes gears where they are most needed at the bottom of the range. It's all personal preference so if you fit a larger chainring the gearing will be raised.
The factory fitted chainring has changed over time so they may be fitting a smaller one now.

 

[Vikki]

The other problem is if you want to fit a double or triple ring at the front. The battery being pressed up against the seat tube makes it impossible to fit the dérailleur mech. I bet someone might have found way round that.

Must admit that I find my Wisper nicely geared, but it is down to personal taste.

Best regards.

Vikki.

 

[flecc]

By the way, I had a chat with one of my local bicycle mounted cops yesterday (what a good idea bike mounted police are) and they were very interested in my Tasman.

They were aware of the legal restrictions on e-bikes and were of the opinion that if you were nicked with a bike over the restriction, you would be charged with driving without tax, insurance or helmet (cycle helmets would not be legal on a motor-vehicle, apparently).

I was surprised they were aware of the law and how easy it was to mod a bike to break it.

A number of forces have tried e-bikes now, making it certain they'd need to know about the legal status, so I'm not surprised that this knowledge is spreading.

I think some of those riding illegal bikes could be in for a shock in the not too distant future, especially once the revisions in the EAPC regulations are published. S class bikes could be more at risk once police are aware, and having a circa £2500 bike seized and crushed* would be a salutary experience.

* Under the regulations on using a motor vehicle uninsured.
.

 

[Old Timer]

I must admit that in general I find that most E bikes have too small a front chainring making the gearing far too low. I have changed all of mine(even the wifes and our folders) but the new (off road )aurora has been thought about and although it has a 48 front ring it does have a great spread of rear gears that start at 13 teeth where as most start at 14 teeth. That 13 rear and 48 front gives me the same as my other bikes being 52/14. It also has a really big grannie ring. I don`t suppose I will ever use the two other front rings, I tried the small one at 5 mph and couldn`t keep up with the spinning

 

[Alex728]

A 2009 wisper 905SE has a 48T chainring.

As for coppers, I believe Lemmy mostly rides in London these days.

Metpol has made a big thing about their cycle units, which have a variety of advantages for policing in urban terrain (a modern version of the old style bobby, but trained with USA mountain biking tactics). There have also been several press releases about how they will be working alongside TfL to ensure that cyclists in the capital comply with road traffic laws same as other road users.

Similar initiatives exist amongst the provincial constabularies albeit on a smaller scale. I occasionally see cops and PCSOs on bikes here, they will stop folk without lights or riding where they shouldn't be in the town centre pedestrian area, but they aren't that common.

I agree that a S class bike and blatantly illegal high power conversions not being pedalled will obviously cause raised eyebrows amongst the Old Bill, as will e-bikes and even push-bikes being ridden in a dangerous or anti-social manner.

I am not so sure if it will be so easy to prove that 250W models even derestricted are over limit if they are being pedalled - or that it would be proportionate to stop safe riders, due to such things as modifying the gearing, and/or as younger faster riders take to these, even on the lower power and legal (even under old laws!) Powacycle Salisbury I can often reach some fast speeds.

Are they going to actually get VOSA on board to test these machines, like they do with motor bikes and cars?

 

[flecc]

I am not so sure if it will be so easy to prove that 250W models even derestricted are over limit if they are being pedalled

Are they going to actually get VOSA on board to test these machines, like they do with motor bikes and cars?

All they have to do is ride a suspected bike to detect it can assist over the limit. The EAPC regulations are bike, not rider. If a bike can assist over the limit the law is broken, it matters not whether the rider did that. The rider would be guilty of using a motor vehicle with all the associated offences involved.
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[Vikki]

So, time to remove the off-road button then?

 

[Alex728]

at present there is no "VOSA plate" on a UK ebike showing what year it was made in, as such an anomaly exists as DfT did not explicitly say the off road button was illegal until a revision of the guidelines comparatively recently. Ditto UK bikes which can at present still be run with throttle only which is illegal under EU laws - and there are no plans to target these.

I would hope that constabularies do give adequate warning of any major law changes or plans to enforce existing laws harder - after all they have done so when a legal loophole closed earlier this year allowed powerful stimulant drugs to be sold by post on the pretence they were "plant food", and also when a popular blank-firing starting pistol was found to be easily convertible to fire live rounds!

As e-bikes, even slightly faster ones are much more of an asset to society than drugs or guns, and do not attract a particularly bad crowd at the moment, so I would hope that the cops/government take a proportionate view...

 

[allen-uk]

Anyway...

Now that I've proved conclusively that I'm an idiot (i.e. by ignoring the old saying about not opening your mouth and proving it), how about some recommendations about the size of my front gear ring?

Alex says the 2009 model is 48 tooth; mine was sold as a 2010, but I shouldn't imagine it's changed.

I want the equivalent of a couple more gear settings (I have 1 to 7) - not for speed, but because I like mooching along at 10 to 15 mph with a fairly slow but firm pedal cadence - and obviously I would be able to change down several gears if I need faster cadence, say on hills which need more leg work.

I know it's going to be a suck-it-and-see job eventually, but I'd like to get it right first time if possible.

And am I right that on Wisper-type systems the gear I'm in doesn't have any affect on the electric input? (Probably wrong, but I enjoy learning.)

Allen.

 

[Alex728]

put the bike on its stand, and look directly at the chain ring from the other side (you will have to kneel down and look closely). Above one of the screws which holds it on to the "spider" (the crank arm attachment), it will say 48T on the chainring (at least it does on mine).

it is difficult (if not near impossible) to put anything other than a 7 speed freewheel block on a rear hub e-bike due to physical limitations imposed by the hub - it requires a wide axle to get the cables through.

you can of course swap out the block for a different one with other gear ratios, although there isn't a large choice of 7 speed blocks..

 

[Vikki]

Not one iota

I pedal with the throttle open in 6th, that's a comfortable cadence for me. Bear in mind that I spin on my trike. But it's always felt comfortable.

If I'm not using the throttle I find 5th at HIGH setting comfortable at a speed of about 14mph.

Not a lot of effort goes in. Very little, actually. Well, practically non-existent Mind you, since I've had the trike I do put a bit more in without realising it now and do go a bit faster.

Vikki.

 

[Old Timer]

Anyway...

Now that I've proved conclusively that I'm an idiot (i.e. by ignoring the old saying about not opening your mouth and proving it), how about some recommendations about the size of my front gear ring?

Alex says the 2009 model is 48 tooth; mine was sold as a 2010, but I shouldn't imagine it's changed.

I want the equivalent of a couple more gear settings (I have 1 to 7) - not for speed, but because I like mooching along at 10 to 15 mph with a fairly slow but firm pedal cadence - and obviously I would be able to change down several gears if I need faster cadence, say on hills which need more leg work.

I know it's going to be a suck-it-and-see job eventually, but I'd like to get it right first time if possible.

And am I right that on Wisper-type systems the gear I'm in doesn't have any affect on the electric input? (Probably wrong, but I enjoy learning.)

Allen.

Allen

I`ve not worked on a Wisper before so don`t know the type of crank( fitting to shaft or type of spider) but in general you might have to change the crank with rings to get the size you want. A lot of the Chinese imports although have a standard tapered square drive have a spider that is not one of the common standards so just fitting a new ring might be impossible. If it is a square tapered drive then cranks and rings are freely available and fairly easy to fit although you do have to take into consideration the set back on the spider. some have a set on them so the ring clears the frame/battery and some have an extended axle to bring the whole crank out a touch. Sometimes a triple crank set will do the job if you remove the inner two smaller rings. What ever and I`m not sure why but the Chinese imports I`ve owned or seen all seem to have a chain ring that would be deemed too small for most people. Fitting a larger front ring(if you get the size right) usually sees you riding one gear down from top gear with comfort thus leaving one higher gear for cruising down hill or with a strong wind behind you. We don`t tend to need very low gears with electric assistance.
Keep in mind that if you increase the ring size then you will almost certainly have to add some extra links in the chain and again with the right tool it`s a breeze although it will probably work on everything but the largest grannie cog on the back without adding extra links. Don`t be put off from having the rings modified because it can transform the bike completely.

My wifes Synergie Breeze had a 46 tooth front ring that was an all in one crank set and she hated the bike simply because she had to pedal at such a fast pace even in top gear. It has a standard square tapered fit so I fitted a new crank set with 52 teeth ring and she absolutely loves the bike now and keeps up with me with ease. She lost the chain guard in the process but it never seems to bother her. She was ready to let the bike go till I did the mod and now she guards it with her life

 

[allen-uk]

Thanks all for the replies.

I will get my local bike shop to do the job. Lovely bloke, still successful although only 400 yards from a big Halfords, so he's doing something right!

Anyway, I'll check the 48 mark, and get him to increase to 52 or 56. My inclination is to go for the bigger, as I've always got lower gears if I need them.

If this logic is screwy (quite possible) then I expect I'll hear from you quite quickly...


Allen.

 

[eddieo]

You have only had the bike a short while......I would use it as is for a bit, you may get used to it. Yes I would prefer 8 gears but I think it is OK within its limitations.

 

[z0mb13e]

Took me a while to get used to the gearing on the 905. But now I prefer it to having 3 front chain rings to confuse things. Yes the top gear is a bit slow - I can't pedal much over 22-25 mph - but its not the end of the world. 1st and 2nd suit me perfectly for the short steep hills I have to deal with.

Vikki, when you say "5th on HIGH" is comfortable, do you mean running in Off-road mode without throttle?

I find that in standard mode (i.e. not in off-road mode) with high power selected (mine is premanently stuck on high and I can't switch to low power anymore for some reason) and no throttle, I am managing about 13mph and changing between 4th and 5th. In off-road mode without throttle I am getting nearer 15mph and using 5th and 6th more. Anyone else find this?

Alex, just to clarify, have the DFT explicity said off-road capabilities are illegal?

If that is the case then it is probably time to disconnect it :-( Though I would first like to figure out if it is just me that is struggling to reach 15mph in standard mode.

 

[flecc]

In off-road mode without throttle I am getting nearer 15mph and using 5th and 6th more. Anyone else find this?

Alex, just to clarify, have the DFT explicity said off-road capabilities are illegal?

If that is the case then it is probably time to disconnect it :-( Though I would first like to figure out if it is just me that is struggling to reach 15mph in standard mode.

The EAPC regulations specifically state that to qualify as an electric assist pedal cycle and be exempt from motor vehicle legislation the bike must not be able to assist above 15 mph. There is an assumption by some of a 10 % tolerance, meanig around 17 mph absolute maximum, and the DfT may have indicated that, but that is not stated in law.

Since yours doesn't assist above 15 mph anyway, you seem to be safe in either mode.
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