Wisper: SO hard to pedal without power

[flecc]

Hi,

Interesting thread this one, and one which does not mirror especially closely my experiences with my Ezee Sprint.

That's right Bob, the Sprint, Cadence and Chopper models used a different motor, probably from a different maker, not the Suzhou Bafang one that the other models used to use (The latest models may all use eZee's own newer motor but I don't know).

The larger diameter Sprint motor internal gears are very different, much narrower and placed further outboard. Compare in this rather poor photo on the left to the Suzhou one on the right:

 

[Stumpi]

Like the OP I'm a one legged fat bloke on a Wisper . Compared to my Cytronex the 905 is a bit of a bitch to pedal unpowered(although it has other advantages over the Cytronex). However the answer is fairly simple, avoid cycling on a flat battery. I always make sure I'm riding on a full battery and have good idea of the range I can achieve over certain conditions. I would no more ride my Wisper on a flat battery than I would take one of my motorcycles out for a push. Of course fitter faster folk with the correct number of legs may be able to manage but us "Mr Spigots" are better keeping the power on

 

[allen-uk]

the answer is fairly simple, avoid cycling on a flat battery. I always make sure I'm riding on a full battery and have good idea of the range I can achieve over certain conditions. I would no more ride my Wisper on a flat battery than I would take one of my motorcycles out for a push.

Hello Stumpi,

Good to hear from you.

Couldn't agree more about keeping the battery topped up. It's just that there ARE times, quite often, when I could cycle without any power, but can't because of the Wisper's nature.

I shall have to live with it, of course, and I'm only gnawing away at the bone in order to get to the bottom of the problem with a view (distant maybe) to trading in my 905 and getting one of these bikes that you can use as a pedal bike as well.

When I was thinking of buying the Wisper, I was influenced partly by my gullible nature, and partly by claims like this: "...our electric bikes are light enough to be ridden without any power assistance including with the battery switched off, depleted or removed altogether."

But I'm not complaining, just getting to grips with reality.


Allen.

 

[Stumpi]

Hi Allen

life is good

I don't think you where gullible but its fair to say the Wisper ads are aimed at riders with a full complement of limbs. I think its unfair for those of us with bits missing to expect to the products to meet the makers claims when part of those claims rely on our physical input.

There are easier Ebikes to pedal unpowered, Cytronex for one , but an Ebike that pedals as freely as a non powered bike is one of the holy grails of Ebiking.

Have you fitted a smaller front chain ring this would lower the gearing a wee bit and make it a little easier to pedal unpowered

 

[CeeGee]

When I was thinking of buying the Wisper, I was influenced partly by my gullible nature, and partly by claims like this: "...our electric bikes are light enough to be ridden without any power assistance including with the battery switched off, depleted or removed altogether."

I maintain that they can be ridden, although I am sure it makes things a lot more difficult if the rider is carrying a couple of sacks of potatoes and is lacking in the requisite number of limbs of a "normal" rider. I did about seven miles on no power on the IOW a couple of months ago after I went further and up more hills than I meant to. Before I bought the Wisper eighteen months I could not have done those hilly 7 miles on a normal bike - let alone a heavy one. Using the Wisper has got some of the pedalling strength in my legs back up, although I have a fair way to go to get to the level I want. My speed was about 10mph on the flat and considerably less up the hills in bottom gear. If I had tried going at 15mph on the flat then there is a very good chance I would have noticed a lot more resistance and wasted a lot of effort. They can be ridden without power, but should not be compared to an ordinary sports bike. Slow, but sure.

I tried riding my old Powabyke Commuter complete with its 24 gears once for 2 miles a few years ago and gave up after a mile, but I think a lot of the problem there was the weight of the SLA batteries on top of the already heavy bike, and lower fitness levels of myself.

Colin

 

[Old Timer]

Like the OP I'm a one legged fat bloke on a Wisper . Compared to my Cytronex the 905 is a bit of a bitch to pedal unpowered(although it has other advantages over the Cytronex). However the answer is fairly simple, avoid cycling on a flat battery. I always make sure I'm riding on a full battery and have good idea of the range I can achieve over certain conditions. I would no more ride my Wisper on a flat battery than I would take one of my motorcycles out for a push. Of course fitter faster folk with the correct number of legs may be able to manage but us "Mr Spigots" are better keeping the power on

Agreed Stumps, that`s why I have my bikes set up to be able to throw a spare under the cross bar, that way I can go further afield if the fancy takes me without having to phone the wife to bring the van
Point in question, the other day my Powertrek battery went tits up just out of the blue around 8 miles from home and it was very difficult to pull over, connect the second battery and continue home.

Hows married life treating you old chap? Got the wife a Harley yet?

My son just saw the light and traded his 180mph bike in for a Harley and now knows how nice it can be to actually see where you are going and enjoy the view

Dave

 

[Stumpi]

Hows married life treating you old chap? Got the wife a Harley yet?

My son just saw the light and traded his 180mph bike in for a Harley and now knows how nice it can be to actually see where you are going and enjoy the view

Married life is great

Harley gone,

I have Victory Hammer S, Triumph Tiger 1050 and Aprilia Dorsoduro while the wee wifie has a BMW Cross Country. Been years since I rode a sports bike

 

[allen-uk]

its fair to say the Wisper ads are aimed at riders with a full complement of limbs. I think its unfair for those of us with bits missing to expect to the products to meet the makers claims when part of those claims rely on our physical input.

Fair comment, stumpi, but if you have time read the rest of the thread, as there are other Wisper owners (2-leggèd, I assume) who share the complaint about how hard they are to pedal unassisted.

My gullibility was that of most people, I think; I assumed I was buying a pedal bike with a motor, not a motorised bike with pedals, and on the test rides took almost no notice of what the bikes felt like sans motor.

Still, life is good, and better with the Wisper - I am doing scores of miles, going up (and down) all sorts of hills, that I wasn't doing before.


Allen.

 

[Stumpi]

Still, life is good, and better with the Wisper - I am doing scores of miles, going up (and down) all sorts of hills, that I wasn't doing before.

I couldnt of put it better myself. Ebikes are not perfect but they're a step in the right direction

 

[fishingpaul]

Hi,

Interesting thread this one, and one which does not mirror especially closely my experiences with my Ezee Sprint.

I accept that I am reasonably fit, reasonably light and put in a fair bit of effort, but my experiences of pedaling without or above asistance seem altogether different to those posted above - is this because the newer Ezee motors are different?

I can, and do reasonably regularly, pedal the first 10 or 12 miles of my 18.5 mile commute to work without assistance. I manage to keep the speed at around 15 - 17 mph and it is not an absolute nightmare. The bike runs along quietly and easily and the couple of short hills on that section are perfectly achieveable by changing gear and keeping the cadence up.

To begin with I was trying this out as an "insurance" tactic believing that if I had a motor / battery failure the furthest I would need to pedal unassisted would be 10 miles, so thought I`d see if I could manage it - more recentlty though I have actually enjoyed pedalling unassisted - all 6 stone of bike, batteries and attached gear, but the wieght certainly comes into play on the hills and speed plummets to around 8 - 10mph

I can, and regularly do, pedal above the assisted speed - as I reach the speed the level of assistance I have selected will give me the power from the motor reduces and it becomes more about my legs doing the work, I can then continue accelerating on the flat or down hill with no sudden feeling of having a trailer added or massive drag when I get above the assisted speed. When I slow down again the motor scoops me up gradually adding the power to keep me going. The transition from motor to legs going above and then back below assistance speed is very smooth and certainly does not feel like I am getting into and out of significant amounts of hub drag

The only time I do notice a big effect from switching off assistance is if I am using the motor under load, eg up a steep hill, and turn off part way up - a sudden and complete loss off assistance is hard to cope with while in the same gear.

As I said - this seems different to the experiences referred to ref Wispers - I guess there must be something different in the motors??

All the best

Bob_about

(Oh, and BTW - if I do switch it to derestricted it stops assisting at 24mph with wheel off the ground, and about 20 - 22mph on the road - obviously only off road though!!)

I think your sprint has the same motor as my torq 2,i manage most of the way to work unpowered ok only using the motor on the hils,and have on a couple of occassions managed to follow other bikes without using any power on the flat.

 

[flecc]

I think your sprint has the same motor as my torq 2,i manage most of the way to work unpowered ok only using the motor on the hils,and have on a couple of occassions managed to follow other bikes without using any power on the flat.

Only if Bob's is the latest and I doubt it is. If he looks on this link at the Sprint Eco which has the older non-SB motor type with flat sides, and the latest Sprint which uses the eZee motor with stepped sides, he will be able to tell which it is. The Sprint has never had an SB motor.
.

 

[fishingpaul]

Only if Bob's is the latest and I doubt it is. If he looks on this link at the Sprint Eco which has the older non-SB motor type with flat sides, and the latest Sprint which uses the eZee motor with stepped sides, he will be able to tell which it is. The Sprint has never had an SB motor.
.

I believe bob has the newer sprint gts,which appears to have the same motor as the torq 2 and ezee kits.

 

[flecc]

I believe bob has the newer sprint gts,which appears to have the same motor as the torq 2 and ezee kits.

If so, it seems the eZee motor is superior to the SB ones in this respect Paul, considering yours and Bob's experiences. Even the older Sprint motor was more free running than the traditional SBs. I've never ridden the new eZee motor or the latest side-plate entry cable SB.
.

 

[Caph]

When I slow down again the motor scoops me up gradually adding the power to keep me going. The transition from motor to legs going above and then back below assistance speed is very smooth and certainly does not feel like I am getting into and out of significant amounts of hub drag

Bob, that's exactly how it is for me on my Galileo. No wonder we are struggling to understand the Wisper problem!

 

[allen-uk]

Bob, that's exactly how it is for me on my Galileo. No wonder we are struggling to understand the Wisper problem!

If I'm passing Nottingham on one of me rides, I'll pop in and demonstrate.

(Shame we don't all live in the same town, ain't it? Then we could have a swapping session...)


A.

 

[Bob_about]

If so, it seems the eZee motor is superior to the SB ones in this respect Paul, considering yours and Bob's experiences. Even the older Sprint motor was more free running than the traditional SBs. I've never ridden the new eZee motor or the latest side-plate entry cable SB.
.

Thanks for posting the pics flecc

I bought my Sprint GTS (crossbar frame) from OnBike in February this year and can confirm it has the latest motor as indicated in your second picture.

I had this thread in mind during my cycle in this morning and tried out acceleratimng from 15mph to 20mph on a flat stretch with the motor off - achieveable, but its a heavy lump to get moving - once at a given speed though no problem keeping it there, hub drag certainly doesnt seem to be the issue reported by the Wisper owners on this thread.

As mentioned to others - if you ever find yourself in the Stratford Upon Avon area give me a shout and you`d be welcome to have a ride out on it.

All the best

Bob_about

BTW - was just wondering why you wrote

Only if Bob's is the latest and I doubt it is.

 

[flecc]

.

BTW - was just wondering why you wrote

On the previous page in your first post on this subject you included this Bob:

I accept that I am reasonably fit, reasonably light and put in a fair bit of effort, but my experiences of pedaling without or above asistance seem altogether different to those posted above - is this because the newer Ezee motors are different?

I took this to mean that you had the previous motor, though I see now that you meant an updated eZee motor.
.

 

[flecc]

IMPORTANT NOTE

With regard to all the above drag comments about the Wisper models, it's important to bear in mind that the SB motors they use are the most widely used of any make.

It would be unfair therefore to think this is a specific Wisper problem. In fact for many of the fitter riders it doesn't even appear to be a problem at all.

Keeping it in proportion, Wisper's main models are designed to be long range under power and they also have low power modes for even greater ranges. It follows that cycling completely without power isn't necessary and any potential drag is therefore not a problem at all.
.

 

[piotrmacheta]

I have both the old style and new style ezee motors and drag seems to be very low indeed and similar in both. The only thing I noticed was that the old ones are quieter.
I once cycled 10 miles with it off when I had a connection problem and it was no problem to cycle (like a normal bike I thought) but felt boring and slow so I was glad to get electric power again.

 

[jasono]

I've been following this very interesting thread and thought I'd add my comment

What I've noticed with my Wisper 905 Sport is it is fine without power on the flat, but throw in a gradient and you can really feel the bikes weight. There are no real problems, it is just slow and hard work, compared to a traditional bike. I'm still trying to work out whether its better to ride at a high or lower cadence on the bike too

When I first got the bike I did feel some drag, but this turned out to be the rear brake binding slightly and was easily solved with adjustment

Take care all

Jason