It’s a very good start at a proper emtb...reliability is key...be nice to see this do well
Wisper eMTB sneak preview
- Thread starter Wisper Bikes
- Start date
Hi David, really glad your doing well with these, I will be in the market for something new come spring and carbon is what I was thinking.
The bikes look amazing, I will come down for a test ride before choosing.
Keep up the good work [emoji106][emoji3]
Steve
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
The bikes look amazing, I will come down for a test ride before choosing.
Keep up the good work [emoji106][emoji3]
Steve
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
It does have something over them, it's not common. Some of us don't like riding what everyone else rides.
Thanks for all your constructive and encouraging comments.
We are very aware that although we are now in our 12th year in the ebike business we are certainly new kids on the block with regards to eMTB.
Our new bikes need to be as good if not better than what is currently available. We understand that we will be under the microscope.
It's been a long and tricky project, making sure the components are good and work in harmony with the frame designs, whilst remaining price conscious. The process has involved trips to Taiwan for both Jeremy and I, meeting frame makers, Shimano, Sram and high end bike builders. Fortunately Jeremy through his time at Magura and his previous road bike building contacts was able to get straight to the best guys available. His expertise and time as a pro mountain biker has proved invaluable.
The builders and frame makers we are using, make bikes for very high end and very well known brands. Taiwan is not at all like China, these guys are amongst the best in the world and do not come cheap.
Since the NEC show we have visited numerous eMTB specialists nearly all of whom have test ridden our bikes and placed orders, one placing an order for 78 carbon models, the biggest single order we have ever taken. Another dealer proclaimed the Wildcat C as the best eMTB he had ever ridden.
Although we have confidence in our eMTB models we are not at all complacent. We will certainly not be celebrating until they are being sold through and used in anger.
All the best, David
We are very aware that although we are now in our 12th year in the ebike business we are certainly new kids on the block with regards to eMTB.
Our new bikes need to be as good if not better than what is currently available. We understand that we will be under the microscope.
It's been a long and tricky project, making sure the components are good and work in harmony with the frame designs, whilst remaining price conscious. The process has involved trips to Taiwan for both Jeremy and I, meeting frame makers, Shimano, Sram and high end bike builders. Fortunately Jeremy through his time at Magura and his previous road bike building contacts was able to get straight to the best guys available. His expertise and time as a pro mountain biker has proved invaluable.
The builders and frame makers we are using, make bikes for very high end and very well known brands. Taiwan is not at all like China, these guys are amongst the best in the world and do not come cheap.
Since the NEC show we have visited numerous eMTB specialists nearly all of whom have test ridden our bikes and placed orders, one placing an order for 78 carbon models, the biggest single order we have ever taken. Another dealer proclaimed the Wildcat C as the best eMTB he had ever ridden.
Although we have confidence in our eMTB models we are not at all complacent. We will certainly not be celebrating until they are being sold through and used in anger.
All the best, David
I maybe should also add that we have used only unidirectional carbon fibre in our frame construction. By using unidirectional carbon fibre we can build an eMTB frame that is twice as strong and stiff as a woven carbon frame.
Unidirectional carbon fibres run in one direction, similar to the grain of wood. Woven carbon fibres run in two directions but are easier to lay. Carbon fibres like wood are 70 times stronger with the “grain” than against it. The frame makers we use understand the extreme forces applied to an eMTB frame and lay the UD carbon fibre to resist those forces. The fibre is layered in multiple directions specifically to add strength exactly where needed when the frame is put under such extreme force. The extra rigidity of the frame enhances handling dramatically.
It's been a steep learning curve!
All the best, David
Unidirectional carbon fibres run in one direction, similar to the grain of wood. Woven carbon fibres run in two directions but are easier to lay. Carbon fibres like wood are 70 times stronger with the “grain” than against it. The frame makers we use understand the extreme forces applied to an eMTB frame and lay the UD carbon fibre to resist those forces. The fibre is layered in multiple directions specifically to add strength exactly where needed when the frame is put under such extreme force. The extra rigidity of the frame enhances handling dramatically.
It's been a steep learning curve!
All the best, David
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OK, so we are actually talking about the frame and name on it, not being common as you say. All other parts are not unique. I'm more than happy for you to be a guinea pig, but from my experience this has back fired on me. Due to this, I personally never buy the latest of anything until it's been out for a while and proven, with bugs ironed out.
Staying with bikes, I went for a Bosch motor vs other motors, as at time it seemed to be the most reliable, flexible (dongle it) and good support. After owning a Colnago C59 where you had to wait for parts to be sent from Italy, I would these days prefer to buy an s works as reports of good back up and great customer service.
Brands and new items have to start somewhere of course, but even today I still make the same blood mistakes. In late 2016, I bought one of the first brand new / new shape Volvo xc90's, not many on the road and still isn't for good reason, it's crap!. Nothing but problems with car and can't get parts quickly.
I'm sure this is a nice bike, but there's a lot of competition out there at this price point offering integrated batteries with reliable/proven Bosch engines. Just saying, but good luck and hope the bike does well.
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Thanks for your good wishes Steve.
We accept this was a big gamble for a small business, but as with our City and Trekking bikes we will stick with it. If nothing else we are tenacious!
I don't expect to compete on numbers with the likes of KTM and Haibike, but for someone who wants something a little different, bought from a company with a longer reliability and support record than any of the big brands mentioned in the thread, we may be a good choice?
We accept this was a big gamble for a small business, but as with our City and Trekking bikes we will stick with it. If nothing else we are tenacious!
I don't expect to compete on numbers with the likes of KTM and Haibike, but for someone who wants something a little different, bought from a company with a longer reliability and support record than any of the big brands mentioned in the thread, we may be a good choice?
I totally agree and wish you the best. It appears your support is very good, which in my mind is just as important as the product itself.
Cheers Steve!
I have just learned from Jeremy that there are many reasons why a light and ultra rigid frame is so important, apparently it's not just about weight and cornering characteristics. When a rider puts a lot of force onto the pedals an alloy bike frame will flex and twist. This twisting action saps the amount of energy a rider is putting into driving the bike. A unidirectional carbon frame will make steep ascents easier to climb.
No incline can be as steep as this leaning curve!
I have just learned from Jeremy that there are many reasons why a light and ultra rigid frame is so important, apparently it's not just about weight and cornering characteristics. When a rider puts a lot of force onto the pedals an alloy bike frame will flex and twist. This twisting action saps the amount of energy a rider is putting into driving the bike. A unidirectional carbon frame will make steep ascents easier to climb.
No incline can be as steep as this leaning curve!
Hopefully you will be able to emulate push bike MTB brands such as Orange.
They didn't have a 'name', but the bikes did well once word got around they were technically very good.
You might want to look at emulating Orange in other ways.
They 'manufacture' their bikes in Halifax using components sourced cheaply from abroad.
https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/stories/view/handbuilt_in_halifax
do you know any UK bike manufacturers that are known for their lightweight frames and bikes?
Afternoon
I've heard different opinions on the frame flex sapping power point. One as above and one that the flex pings back , so the frame acts more like a momentary storage rather than actual loss of power input. No idea myself ! As I've a titanium frame which is flex and zingy I like the concept [emoji4]
Also, with the weave vs unidirectional thing. Does this have any impact on blunt force impact resistance do you know
. It seems to be the downfall of carbon generally that a seemingly minor knock canncompromise the whole frame. Especially when the impact point is, er, pointy - like small rock
Anyway , good.luck!
that has put me of carbon frames forever lol did not even hit a tree it hit a stick for the tape
Although carbon is nice, having had many carbon road and mtb's, it's not the be all and end all. Over the years it's been the "in material" to have a bike made from. Yes it's stiff, strong and light but with every advantage there's a disadvantage i.e. can be a bone shaker, can be too stiff and repairs are difficult. I had a fork snap on me, very rare but when it happens it can be catastrophic. I bought a set of Campy ultra 2 carbon wheels, yes very light but not for everyday, just race days.
Would I buy carbon again yes, do I really need it on a heavy e-mtb no, as the extra weight requirements of frame and heavy motor cancel benefits imho.
Let's be honest here though, unless your a category rider or chris froome, carbon weave and flex make little or no difference. Its the law of diminishing returns.
Maybe when motors, frame and of course myself become lighter and I can flick the back end out i'll buy one.
ps did visit the enigma factory and tried some of their titanium bikes very nice.
Would I buy carbon again yes, do I really need it on a heavy e-mtb no, as the extra weight requirements of frame and heavy motor cancel benefits imho.
Let's be honest here though, unless your a category rider or chris froome, carbon weave and flex make little or no difference. Its the law of diminishing returns.
Maybe when motors, frame and of course myself become lighter and I can flick the back end out i'll buy one.
ps did visit the enigma factory and tried some of their titanium bikes very nice.
Off the top of my head - no.
If anything, the makers I can think of are known for making heavy bikes.
Pashley for one, and I believe Orange made their name with heavy duty (and heavyweight) downhill bikes.
Bromptons are steel, so not particularly light.
The bespoke frame makers I know of all use steel of one sort or another.
There will be a niche UK brand or two offering imported carbon frames assembled with the usual mix of mostly imported components.
Yep, but not ebikes and not carbon
Van Nicholas and Enigma spring tomind from. my neck of woods
Good point, last winter I fell off my e-bike at the same time as my friend who was on a standard bike going down hill and we are similar weight. We hit black ice and my bike ended up much worse off damage wise. The bike mechanic said he thought this was due to the e-bike being much heavier which sounds logical. Frame ended up with some nasty gouges out of it, not sure how carbon would have coped being scraped along the road for 50 yards hmmmm.
I agree any ebike falls heavily.
Although when I came off my Rose on black ice it was all but undamaged because me and the bike slid across the ice rather than being scraped by the asphalt.
We know the guys from Orange very well indeed. The Directors have bought Wisper City bikes from us for parents. They are freinds of Jeremy’s. We like what they do will try to emulate them. We are not ruling out building our high end range in Kent.
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