Wisper Clone on eBay

[wibble]

I do think the manufacturers are normally a welcome presence including Wisper. although I do agree with you in regards to this thread where there are some slightly unprofessional comments (in my opinion). Most of my comments earlier on in the thread were because it did get my back up a bit one manufacturer tarnishing another so blatently. People robbing ideas goes on all the time in business and most of the time there's nothing you can do about it especially if the ideas not that original in the first place. If you ask me any mtb with a battery behind the seat is going to look like a wisper. They are a well put together product but no major innovation as far as I can see. Hopefully they will put together some truely innovative products together in future and they could then lay claim to some real intellectual property to defend their business.

Well I think it's fair to blatantly tarnish another company that's blatantly ripping you off. The bike in question isn't just another mountain bike with a battery behind the seat. It's a clone. Some might say that the manufacturer of the clone is deliberately misleading their customers while leeching off another company.

Yet it does beg the question why they would clone something that isn't exactly popular yet. It's quite possible that the frame is a generic inexpensive frame that's being sold in China. If that's the case then calling it a "clone" would be totally unfair.

 

[flecc]

It's not a generic frame, though similar in style to some others. Wisper spent time and money in it's development to achieve it's lightness and strength, and as David remarked, much effort and many thousands of miles of travel have gone into getting every aspect of the bike improved to a standard suitable to Western customers. Battery development alone and a change of manufacturer for that have been the occasion of much work.

The work has paid off and the 905 that WEVCO made when David took over the company was nothing like as good as the current 905se. I can well understand his annoyance when an employee leaves and imitates their efforts with an inferior clone.

The Wisper brand is popular enough to be in a number of countries in both hemispheres now, so I can understand someone wanting to cash in on that image rather than thinking of something original. The doesn't excuse the copying, and I have no objection to David's colourful description of that person. Anyone knowing David personally will know he isn't in any way a malicious man.
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[wibble]

The work has paid off and the 905 that WEVCO made when David took over the company was nothing like as good as the current 905se. I can well understand his annoyance when an employee leaves and imitates their efforts with an inferior clone.
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Ooooh! The plot thickens!

I'm sure the "employee" would have a story to tell.

I think despite good intentions I can see how a manufacturer's presence in a forum in always going to be a little strained. Especially when the manufacturers are renting ad space from the forum host. It could make it difficult for the forum's host to remain impartial.

For example - I've noticed that our bike reviews are vetted.

 

[frank9755]

I don't know exactly what David pays to advertise Wisper on the forum but I don't think any of us who have read posts on here over a period of time really believe it influences the content of the forum at all, and I don't think David would want it to. I imagine most of the value he gets out of it is as a focus group to hear what people do and don't like.

For one thing, the Wisper ad is almost a year out of date, advertising their old bike, the 905e! If it was really so important, they would have updated it, but I am sure David has a hundred things higher up on his to-do list.

Employees leave and some of them set up in competition - that's life! No point in David chasing them through courts, but its best just to get on with innovating the product, as Wisper has done. The ex-employee may put out a passable imitation at first, but if he is good, his product will develop in other directions; if not, it will just be old, cheap technology.

 

[flecc]

Our administrator Russ who set up this forum only examines the reviews before publication to prevent something malicious being posted. He doesn't edit the gist of the reviews in any way.

Obviously factual mistakes have to be corrected, for example someone saying a bike has an NiMh battery when in fact it's a lithium one, since they could mislead others.

We have in fact previously lost an advertiser who was displeased, but the site is more important than any individual advertiser so I think you can rest assured about undue influence.
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[The Maestro]

Well I think it's fair to blatantly tarnish another company that's blatantly ripping you off. The bike in question isn't just another mountain bike with a battery behind the seat. It's a clone. Some might say that the manufacturer of the clone is deliberately misleading their customers while leeching off another company.

Yet it does beg the question why they would clone something that isn't exactly popular yet. It's quite possible that the frame is a generic inexpensive frame that's being sold in China. If that's the case then calling it a "clone" would be totally unfair.

I don't really see how its a rip-off though. Its a mtb with a battery behind the seat. The frame looks a bit similar but I don't see them actively trying to cash in on the Wisper brand, they haven't copied the logo, graphics or anything. Lots of bikes look very similar, some look almost exactly the same. If its an ex-employee then its not really a surprise that hes doing what he knows best. Anyone who looks into it will see that the components are pretty much different and especially the battery isn't nearly as good (only 8 AH I think ). I don't see why Wisper are so annoyed about it.

 

[wibble]

I don't really see how its a rip-off though. Its a mtb with a battery behind the seat. The frame looks a bit similar but I don't see them actively trying to cash in on the Wisper brand, they haven't copied the logo, graphics or anything. Lots of bikes look very similar, some look almost exactly the same. If its an ex-employee then its not really a surprise that hes doing what he knows best. Anyone who looks into it will see that the components are pretty much different and especially the battery isn't nearly as good (only 8 AH I think ). I don't see why Wisper are so annoyed about it.

It's the frame that defines a bike. All bike manufacturers tend to use the same components - shimano cranks, gears etc. The only part the bike manufacturer actually designs and builds themselves is the frame. The "clone" bike's frame is almost identical to the Wisper's.

Since hearing that the guy was a former "employee" of WisperBikes I'm not going to judge him at all. I know how business arrangements can easily go bad through misunderstanding etc. For all we know the guy may have designed the frame himself.

The only thing that I do know is that I have a Wisper bike and I'm happy with it.

Thanks, David!

 

[Saddlesore]

I personally welcome input from manufacturers / dealers and as long as they are identified as such and don't hide behind an alias I see no problem. Surely we are all adult and experienced enough in the world to know when a product is being pushed and most of us can decide the merits of a product from our own list of priorities and requirements.
I don't own a Wisper bike but do like to hear about developments and issues that are a result of customer feedback / problems and manufacturers responses as these problem areas tend to be common to all e-bikes.
I hope that we will continue to hear from all those commercially involved in e-bikes as such dialogue is helpful to all.

 

[ElephantsGerald]

If other members feel my presence is intrusive I will stop posting.

Getting answers direct from the horses mouth (as it were) is invaluable, as is being able to browse through the responses to other peoples problems.

I also know that WEVCO in particular have made several improvements to the 905 based on feedback from this forum, which is great.

As long as they identify themselves as such, I very much welcome the prescence of manufacturers.

Regards,

Elephants

 

[rsscott]

For example - I've noticed that our bike reviews are vetted.

Hi Wibble, the only time a review doesn't get put up is when the reviewer has put a single one-liner for each of the headings. In that scenario I email them back asking them to provide more info. For example, one review I received said 'bike x is crap'. I don't call that constructive so an elaboration is required.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for your support!

Thanks for your support Guys, I would have hated to be banished!!

Just a couple of quick points and then I'll leave it.

It is purely the frame I get a bit "tired and emotional about". The frame was designed to be both the basis of a good, strong and well balanced bike and it's distinctive shape was supposed to be our trade mark. It's 100% my fault that it's being copied because at that time we could not afford to protect it properly. So unless the frame is pretty well exactly the same as ours we can't do anything. On close inspection of course the clones are very different, they are not made the way ours are because that would then render them too expensive to be sold as a rip offs.

The rest of the components are freely available, even the battery and controller which although we spent a lot of time working with the respective manufacturers on the specifications are now available to anyone, I don't have a problem with that. All of the parts on our bikes are a long cry from "Bone Shaker" and "Penny Farthing" components of the past and we are more than comfortable in using others wonderful innovations and improvements.

Regarding my colorful and unprofessional description of the people who have copied the frame, yes perhaps referring to them as "gits" and low lives" was a bit extreme but I do get a little passionate about our bike. Please note though, I would never refer to them as thieves or con men although as companies like Rolex and Dior, for instance, who spend millions on R and D and getting their products to market would not agree. Believe me it is one thing to design something new and distinctive, then going through the pains of having it made for the first time, and quite another to simply pitch up at a bike factory with a product and say "copy this for me mate"!

Best regards David

 

[moon]

Yes, the main reason I bought the Wisper was because of the manufacturers presence on these boards as I knew I could get up to date info and service queries dealt with efficiently.
I knew nothing about electric bikes prior to browsing this website a week before my purchase, it was a big step but I felt comfortable in the knowledge that I would get good customer service.

I think its good to engage with developers and manufacturers on forums such as these as the constant feedback helps to shape the development and advancement of the technology and product to suit customers needs, which can change over time.

 

[Saddlesore]

Yes Moon my point precisely. It's good to see manufacturers and dealers taking an interest in this site and per se their customers. I know it's good P.R. for them to do so but it is good to hear from people who are passionate about their products and it would give me confidence to deal with people like that rather than someone flogging what they perceive to be a lucrative consumer line before they move on to the next big thing and conveniently forget the poor customers who trusted them for product support.
At least Mr Ezee, Mr Wisper, Mr 50 cycles and a few others are regular contributors who seem to be actually interested in their customers as well as their bikes and long may that continue.

 

[wibble]

Well I agree, it would be nice to have additional support on the forum. Especially considering that I hate to be a pain and keep pestering the manufacturers directly with problems. So it's nice to have them volunteer to help with any bike related issues that I may have posted on a forum.

But I must warn WisperBikes that my experience was quite frustrating when considering purchasing one of their bikes. I tried to contact Wisper about their bikes via the Southampton site and didn't get a reply. I then emailed their other site and got a reply a few days later. But by then I had already decided to buy a bike from the very responsive 'The Electric Transport Shop' instead.

What made it so frustrating is that I could see David was very active on this forum and yet there was no reply to my emails via their site. An analogy would be to see somebody showing off a cool bike at an event and then going to their store to purchase a bike, only to find their store was closed!.

It's pointless to have all that support when there's nobody back at the store to sell the blooming bikes! grr

Hopefully Wisper has since ironed out the problems, as I see I'm not the first person to whine about the Southamption site.

I would also recommend that they close one of their websites ASAP as it's quite unsettling to see a company with two UK websites.

On a positive note:- I liked the design of both their websites and really wanted to buy a bike directly from them rather than from a third party.

 

[The Maestro]

Well I just looked at the two bikes side by side and I can see now that its a copy. So that is a bit lame.

Personally I think seeing a bike thats a blatant rip-off would probably put more people off buying it because it just makes you think that the person making it hasn't got much imagination or ability of their own.

 

[flecc]

Well I just looked at the two bikes side by side and I can see now that its a copy. So that is a bit lame.

Personally I think seeing a bike thats a blatant rip-off would probably put more people off buying it because it just makes you think that the person making it hasn't got much imagination or ability of their own.

Unfortunately there are those who always think a bargain is possible and it's those who buy, thinking they are getting the equivalent at the lower price.

Since people as far apart as Britain, Spain and New Zealand all independently call these bikes clones and understand them to be clones of the Wisper 905, it's fairly obvious that they are being promoted as such by that clone supplier and his dealers, cashing in on the similarity. That more than anything is why I find it objectionable.
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[eddieo]

Thanks for your support Guys, I would have hated to be banished!!

Just a couple of quick points and then I'll leave it.

It is purely the frame I get a bit "tired and emotional about". The frame was designed to be both the basis of a good, strong and well balanced bike and it's distinctive shape was supposed to be our trade mark. It's 100% my fault that it's being copied because at that time we could not afford to protect it properly. So unless the frame is pretty well exactly the same as ours we can't do anything. On close inspection of course the clones are very different, they are not made the way ours are because that would then render them too expensive to be sold as a rip offs.

The rest of the components are freely available, even the battery and controller which although we spent a lot of time working with the respective manufacturers on the specifications are now available to anyone, I don't have a problem with that. All of the parts on our bikes are a long cry from "Bone Shaker" and "Penny Farthing" components of the past and we are more than comfortable in using others wonderful innovations and improvements.

Regarding my colorful and unprofessional description of the people who have copied the frame, yes perhaps referring to them as "gits" and low lives" was a bit extreme but I do get a little passionate about our bike. Please note though, I would never refer to them as thieves or con men although as companies like Rolex and Dior, for instance, who spend millions on R and D and getting their products to market would not agree. Believe me it is one thing to design something new and distinctive, then going through the pains of having it made for the first time, and quite another to simply pitch up at a bike factory with a product and say "copy this for me mate"!

Best regards David

Thats a bit more reasoned and professional perhaps when I come for a test ride we can have a big hug lol

On the subject of design, Bikes are a bit like PC's all sharing different versions of similar equipment. But I take your point regards the frame....

I showed the 905 SE to my wife and she said "you must be joking!" and that no way was she riding a bike like that....any girlie versions coming out?

 

[fishingpaul]

I feel the clone bikes would sell to a different type of market than the wisper bikes,the wisper attracting buyers expecting quality and willing to pay for it, and the clone buyers hoping for a bargain and willing to take a gamble.

 

[Mandy]

Blimey

Hi Guys
Have been away from the forum for a while due to some sad news resulting in a death in the family.

However I am now back and noticed this lively thread

As you all know I own a Wisper 905se bought from Germany and have found David and Doug and Wisper to be the tops in product, after care etc.
Wisper are obviously passionate about their bikes and I find that comforting and they have been quick to reply to any of my queries so it's a shame Wibble didn't get a response but I am sure there was a reason. I just know you wouldn't get the after care service like this from an Ebay looky likey, copy cat supplier

However, it is a free country and people are free to buy the bike of their choosing and so be it. Unfortunately it may cost more in the long term and I would rather stick with a supplier who really cares and will be around when things go wrong

As for cost? Yes I guess we would all want every product we buy cheaper but in that age old saying: "You get what you pay for" I think in this case it is certainly appropriate

Keep up the passion the posting and the great bikes David.

Regards

 

[seeker]

Seeker

Moon has pretty much summed it up for me also. it was David's presence and the positive comments that made up my mind.

I also second Mandy's comments to Wibble. I live in Southampton, not far from the Wisper base, and I find Stuart a great guy to deal with. Wibble was it the actual website that your issue was with? I agree that Doug took a day or two to get back to me, but I get the distict impression that these guys are blue ar$e flies going above and beyond to provide the best of something they are passionate about. It's something I found to be non-existant in the first dealer I approached, and something I feel more than justifies the price.

David, just keep doing what your doing and any clone will just have to eat your dust The fact that you managed sell all your bikes almost before they've landed on UK soil speaks for itself.