February 16, 200818 yr Frank has said the Wisper motor is the same one as the Quando and Torq, the Suzhou Bafang 8fun, but I'm not sure. None of the photos I've seen show it clearly enough to tell. It's in the back wheel in the Quando as well of course. It's certainly capable of the same performance as the Torq of course if that's the case. .
February 16, 200818 yr The motor on mine has a label on it saying Suzhou Bafang, model 129SWX36. However, while its pretty quick, I don't know if it matches the performance of the Torq. People report getting 22-24 mph from Torqs. I've never got that from my Wisper; its more a 17-19 mph bike, on the flat in still air. You would expect it to be a little slower than the Torq with the smaller 26 inch wheels but it feels like there is more of a difference than that would explain. Having said that, I've mainly ridden mine in January, which was a windy month. I might get better performance in the spring, with better weather and a warmer battery. Frank
February 16, 200818 yr Sounds the same Frank. In fact the Torq only reliably gets to 20 on the flat much of the time, and 22 when everything is favourable. They don't do 24 on a true flat stretch in still air, they need a touch of help to do that. Mine when on the over-volt 39.6 volt battery makes 24 mph when everything is favourable, but 22 on average. The speedo is calibrated accurately over distance, so no error from that. .
February 16, 200818 yr As the Torq is now only available in restricted mode, unless you do a DIY de restrction which would probably invalidate the warranty, the Wisper 905se must be the fastest production electric bike on the streets:D John
February 16, 200818 yr I was thinking that myself John. The Forza was still in contention once the EAF control was dropped, but it's no longer a listed bike since eZee went all legal. I know that the new Torq motor had changes as well as the controller, so it may not be capable of the same speeds anyway, even if without restriction. Of course it leaves Wisper very vulnerable if someone decides to be nasty about it.
February 16, 200818 yr My Torq1 motor has BF610B11884 etched on it, if thats any help?! I get around 19-21mph full throttle without pedalling (36V NiMH) depending on charge level, a few mph more with pedalling but 24mph is a burst top speed only - not sustainable for me due to the legpower needed. Is the 17-19mph for the Wisper 905se with or without pedalling Frank, or is that the range from motor only to pedal assist, or the 'charge level' speed variation? If you mean that 19mph is the top pedal-assisted speed, that suggests the unloaded motor speed is not much higher & that the 905se motor is lower geared than the Torq1 8fun (all else being equal - battery etc. which it probably isn't! ) even without the smaller 26" wheels which you point out - what is the 905se unloaded motor speed? That would be the easiest way to gauge the gearing I think. On my Torq its about 25-27mph depending on battery charge state, which with my 219mm circumference tyres amounts to ~317-342rpm for the motor. John: The Torq motor isn't restricted: it is geared for 15mph maximum speed in 28" wheels by the sound of it, so can't be delimited: the speed could be increased by increasing the battery voltage or regearing the motor. The F-series bikes are still as fast as Torq was previously as far as I know, so faster than the 905se? Stuart.
February 16, 200818 yr Almost... What about the Ezee F-series bikes? I think they are now un-restricted. Faster still would be a Heinzmann Estelle Sport, and also a (high powered - I forget which letter it is) Flyer and the mythical Swizzbee!
February 16, 200818 yr Stuart, 19 mph is with pedalling. I've done 24mph on the flat but I claim all the credit for that; the motor was putting its feet up! I've rarely used the Wisper without pedalling (to protect the soft dropouts as well as preference) but I think it would do 15, maybe 15.5 mph. Your Torq sounds faster. I'll try and measure the unloaded speed (need to fiddle as my computer is not on the motor wheel). Frank
February 16, 200818 yr Almost... What about the Ezee F-series bikes? I think they are now un-restricted. Faster still would be a Heinzmann Estelle Sport, and also a (high powered - I forget which letter it is) Flyer and the mythical Swizzbee! Only the Forte of the F series is still available now, and it is firmly restricted, eZee's new legal only policy in place The Flyer S and Swizzbee aren't e-bikes as we understand it, falling into a different class that we haven't got legislation for, so they are very illegal here. Only Switzerland and Germany in Europe have legislated for them, with requirements such as compulsory helmets and insurance. I daresay the Heinzmann Estelle Sport is also in that same class, being German. .
February 16, 200818 yr I wasn't aware of the Forza unavailability & Forte speed restriction, so looks like the 905se it is! Frank: I think they are similarly geared in that case, as flecc said. If you can get to 24mph (if its on the flat!) then the unloaded speed is most likely thereabouts or slightly higher, and the speed difference betwen 19mph and 20-22mph probably down to a combination of lower gearing in 26" wheels & colder temperature like you said . Stuart.
February 16, 200818 yr Sounds like the end for de restricted/off road bikes from Ezee, I expect Wisper will follow suit except for the few that are still available from Germany. By the way I wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted for riding an illegal pedelec? Very much doubt it. John
February 16, 200818 yr Yes, this is what Wai Won Ching said about the latest Torq Trekking and our preference for derestrictable bikes: "In a conflict of interest between what customer or the market likes and what is legal. eZee takes the legal way, this is absolutely essential for long term consideration." So that's emphatic, 15 mph from now on. Never heard of a prosecution, and that's much less likely now, except for specials. I think the police are too busy going after under age kids on illegal mini-motos and quad bikes to bother with the very minor matter of an e-bike being a touch too fast. .
February 16, 200818 yr I think the responsible manufacturers are striving for compliance with the forthcoming EU CEN standards relating to pedelecs. As the standards are supposed to ensure that only safe products can be sold, its a fair bet that to be certified as safe a product has to be at least legal.
February 16, 200818 yr And on the subject of the ezee motor in the EU Torq vs the kit being sold in Canada/US: The controllers are the same for the US+Canadian vs EU market. The motors are wound differently for speed and watts... ... Battery life and amps drawn. As a simplified illustration the old model Torq would draw max. 16 amps at max. torque, the New Torq motor could draw over 20 amps and with a much higher torque delivered, that it operated right up to the maximum limit 20 amps imposed by the controller. The USA+Canada version for 350watts and 250 rpm would accelerate and do higher maximum speed operating at much higher Amps, but in fact lower max torque than the 250 watt because it reach 20 amps with more rpm. Stuart.
February 17, 200818 yr I get around 19-21mph full throttle without pedalling (36V NiMH) depending on charge level, a few mph more with pedalling but 24mph is a burst top speed only - not sustainable for me due to the legpower needed. Is the 17-19mph for the Wisper 905se with or without pedalling Frank, or is that the range from motor only to pedal assist, or the 'charge level' speed variation? If you mean that 19mph is the top pedal-assisted speed, that suggests the unloaded motor speed is not much higher & that the 905se motor is lower geared than the Torq1 8fun (all else being equal - battery etc. which it probably isn't! ) even without the smaller 26" wheels which you point out - what is the 905se unloaded motor speed? That would be the easiest way to gauge the gearing I think. On my Torq its about 25-27mph depending on battery charge state, which with my 219mm circumference tyres amounts to ~317-342rpm for the motor. Stuart. Stuart, I've rigged up a spare computer on my motor wheel and, as I suspected, the Wisper unloaded top speed is lower, at 21.8 mph*. In my 207mm wheel I think that would equate to 292 rpm. I guess it is not surprising that the company may make differently geared wheels. I've not tested my Wisper on hills yet (as I live on the prairies of West London), but this suggests that it might fare better than a Torq on moderate hills, but it isn't quite as fast on the flat. Frank *I said I was claiming all the credit for getting it to 24mph! It was only a short burst...
February 17, 200818 yr *I said I was claiming all the credit for getting it to 24mph! It was only a short burst... Sorry I doubted you Frank! Its just it takes rather a lot of pedal power to reach 24mph, even without hub motor resistance! You sure you're not a professional cyclist? Thanks for measuring the rpm, its very interesting to know the comparison. The rpm difference is not too great & with the additional lower gearing in 26" wheels as you say the Wisper905se motor will be more balanced between hills & speed, actual comparative performance depending on current limit/peak power output of 905se vs other bikes . Stuart. Edited February 17, 200818 yr by coops
February 17, 200818 yr Author My old Wisper 905e, with 10AH battery was amazingly fast. I fitted a digital speedo and got someone to follow me in a car with a digital speedo to check my bike one. It was accurate. On the flat, with throttle only, I regularly achieved 16mph. Pedalling moderately, I always, without fail, did 19mph. Pedalling a bit harder, 22-23mph. If I pedalled hard and used the twistgrip throttle at the same time (twisted fully), 24mph was easily achievable and, on one notable occasion, pedalling hard and throttle on.... down a hill, I did 29mph. This felt pretty hair-raising though. A great point I found about the Wisper was how very very quiet the motor was... just a tiny hum even when going fast.
February 18, 200818 yr Both your results & Frank's puzzle me rather - motor only 16mph max speed suggests motor power should tail off quite quickly with speed above that, yet if you can get to 20-24mph on 905e or se it suggests that motor assist is present at those speeds? Could some extra motor power be phased in when you pedal I wonder, thus cicumventing the '15mph on motor only' rule?!! When you say, Frank, that "the motor was putting its feet up", do you mean you weren't using the motor at all, or that you were throttling and it just felt like it wasn't assisting?! Stuart.
February 18, 200818 yr The Wisper is a pedelec so it may be giving more, but I doubt it. On other bikes which have both pedelec and throttle, and also a manual -such as Powacycle - the throttle gives you the maximum assistance while pedelec is always less or equal. When I got to 24mph, my throttle was engaged but I believed I was over its upper limit. This was a one-off when I really pedalled hard, along the Embankment from Charing Cross to Blackfriars. I've never got those speeds on the flat on other occasions. But, Jimmy, I remembered your story about almost getting it to 30mph while going down a hill the other week. My speedo was on about 28.5 and I thought I'll give it another push, and got it to 31.1. Please let us know if your SE is any faster than your E. From that account, I suspect you might get exactly the same performance.
February 18, 200818 yr I think the responsible manufacturers are striving for compliance with the forthcoming EU CEN standards relating to pedelecs. As the standards are supposed to ensure that only safe products can be sold, its a fair bet that to be certified as safe a product has to be at least legal. I think this was always the way it was going to go - just a question of when. The challenge for the manufacturers and resellers now is to justify to the consumer why they would want to pay such a premium for a high end bike when it doesn't go any faster. Is a 15mph Torq or Ezee Forte really worth almost twice as much as an Ezee Liv, which with its brushed motor will be a bit noisier but probably have lower rolling resistance so actually go faster if you pedal a bit?
February 18, 200818 yr Author I suspect the performance of the SE will be the same in terms of speed but the extra AH of the battery will give longer range (correct me if I'm wrong, someone...) One thing I noticed re the Wisper is that, when pedalling at well over 16mph, when the throttle was turned on and twisted to full power, the motor still assisted. It wasn't restricted by the speed of the bike. So, when pedalling with full throttle on, it was very fast. The pedelec mode (ie without the throttle on) would cut out at 16mph and kick in again once the speed of the bike was less than that. But, with throttle, no speed limit. On my Heinzmann bike, even though controlled by a throttle only, the motor would just stop once 15mph or so was reached. So, it was NOT possible to pedal with the throttle on and get high speeds. After the Wisper, I found this disappointing. Edited February 18, 200818 yr by jimmyengland1000
February 18, 200818 yr I did collaborate with David Miall of Wisper on some details during the 905se development, and it was intended as a better challenger for the high speed e-bikes than the 905e, though not necessarily the same as them. The emphasis was on making it a good cycling experience at the same time, hence the motor smoothly continuing to contribute through the higher speeds, working with the rider to give a feeling of continuous acceleration. .
February 18, 200818 yr 905 14a Hi Flecc and Jimmy Jimmy you are absolutely correct, the 14a battery will have no effect on the speed of the bike except that you will be able to keep up the high end of the speed range for longer. Our mission is to build a bike that will climb hills with ease and have a pedelec range of more than 40 miles on the flat. This has been achieved now in China although the controller guys have been working with the battery factory as between them that are confident that they can increase that by 20%, we will see. Best regards David
February 18, 200818 yr That sounds quite clever & useful on a faster bike flecc . Seems to work perfectly too, from Frank & Jimmy's experiences! Sorry guys, but I knew there must be some electrical wizardry at work . Stuart. Edited February 18, 200818 yr by coops
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