Wisper 905se sport.......Brakes

[Straylight]

Yes, in Wisper's defence, it seems they have gone to great leangths to address people's concens over their braking systems. I believe they have switched supplier for the levers again for their forthcomming models to Tektro, a known name in the cycling industry, with a fair range of products on the market going by google type research.

One of the main reasons I swapped to Avid v-brakes was that I've found them to be completely reliable on my old Marin hybrid, that's been ridden for over a decade (though not so much in the last few months, well since I bought the wisper in fact ). For information's sake, I combine these brakes with Avid's 'Rim Wrangler 2' cartridge blocks using 'Clarks MTB inserts', and have done for years.

 

[Barnowl]

I am getting a Wisper anyday :

Hi Steve: I'd have bet last week that you was going to go with the other bike (Kalkoff) because of the brakes. I still can't see you could have gone wrong either way and doubt you'll wish you'd decided otherwise.

I try not to use the brakes much myself. I've even found myself sitting upright to increase wind resistance and lose speed. Not to be particularly recommended. Pity we can't get cycling jackets with under arm flaps to use as air brakes.

Come February we'll all be worried rim wear

 

[Straylight]

This thread seems to have developed a twin...

 

[Sir_Bob]

Hi

The thing I not understand is why would someone want to replace the brake when they buy a new bike, I have Kakhoff for 1.5 year and not changed my yet event though I am very big and use brakes. I also have big kagool that is also wind breaker.

My bike is a good physiotherapy and got me back on my feet have to 1 month in hospical

thx

Bob

 

[Caph]

I think this has been said numerous times before but cable disc brakes are the worst sort of brakes and are easily bettered by rim brakes.

I really can't disagree strongly enough with this rumour. Personal experience with quality mech disk brakes and quality brake blocks shows that mech disk brakes are miles ahead of rim brakes for several reasons.

One, you don't have to apply as much pressure to get similar levels of braking and thus you don't get hand cramp on long off-road downhill stretches.

Two, quality mech disk brakes with quality pads are unaffected by rain. If anything mine work slightly better in the wet because it cleans any residue off the disk and pads. This is the opposite of a rim brake which requires a lot more pull in the wet.

Three, mech disk brakes are much easier to maintain. No more three hands required to change brakes.

Four, when riding off-road rear rim brakes clog up with mud. This is not the case with disk brakes.

As for the myth that hydraulics must be better. Just think about it. The only thing the hydraulics are doing is transferring pressure, albeit more efficiently. The actual mechanics of the braking itself i.e. the pads, the disk, the pad movement mechanism, all remain completely separate from how you transfer the pressure to them. Granted they may take slightly less pressure to operate but the braking itself has nothing at all to do with whether a brake is hydraulic or mechanical.

 

[HarryB]

I really can't disagree strongly enough with this rumour. Personal experience with quality mech disk brakes and quality brake blocks shows that mech disk brakes are miles ahead of rim brakes for several reasons.

One, you don't have to apply as much pressure to get similar levels of braking and thus you don't get hand cramp on long off-road downhill stretches.

Two, quality mech disk brakes with quality pads are unaffected by rain. If anything mine work slightly better in the wet because it cleans any residue off the disk and pads. This is the opposite of a rim brake which requires a lot more pull in the wet.

Three, mech disk brakes are much easier to maintain. No more three hands required to change brakes.

Four, when riding off-road rear rim brakes clog up with mud. This is not the case with disk brakes.

As for the myth that hydraulics must be better. Just think about it. The only thing the hydraulics are doing is transferring pressure, albeit more efficiently. The actual mechanics of the braking itself i.e. the pads, the disk, the pad movement mechanism, all remain completely separate from how you transfer the pressure to them. Granted they may take slightly less pressure to operate but the braking itself has nothing at all to do with whether a brake is hydraulic or mechanical.

I agree there are many advantages/disadvantage to disc brakes but I do not accept that cable can be as good as hydraulic. As discs are a much smaller diameter than rims they need a much higher mechanical advantage to work well and this is not easy to achieve with a cable, also the mechanism is not easy to design for cable. I also think they are not particularly good at clearing water in the wet. I think this has something to do with the larger area of pad (again required because the diameter is small) that trap a much larger area of water than rim brakes.

I think Llyod sums up brakes very well here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/3079-disk-v-brake-pros-cons.html

 

[Mussels]

I agree there are many advantages/disadvantage to disc brakes but I do not accept that cable can be as good as hydraulic. As discs are a much smaller diameter than rims they need a much higher mechanical advantage to work well and this is not easy to achieve with a cable, also the mechanism is not easy to design for cable. I also think they are not particularly good at clearing water in the wet. I think this has something to do with the larger area of pad (again required because the diameter is small) that trap a much larger area of water than rim brakes.

I think Llyod sums up brakes very well here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/3079-disk-v-brake-pros-cons.html

That was my thinking as well, motorbike brakes work incredibly well and I've never seen them cable operated.

 

[Fecn]

Hydraulic brakes are better for one reason. Cables stretch whereas liquids will not compress. As such, the brakes can be set far more accurately as there's no need to allow for the stretch in the cables.

 

[HarryB]

That was my thinking as well, motorbike brakes work incredibly well and I've never seen them cable operated.

I had a Moto Guzi that had a very odd brake arrangement. The foot operated brake worked one front disc and the rear and the front brake lever worked the other (hydraulic) disc brake at the front. The problem was that the front brake master cylinder was worked by a cable to the lever. It was really horrible and never gave much power unlike the rear. So when coming to a stop, for the last foot or so you naturally come off the rear to put that foot down only to realise the front wasn't actually going to stop you ... led to some eventful stops.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I have just sold my Wisper and the worse part about the bike was the brakes. They were terrible and it is hard to understand why. I could walk into halfords and spend £99 on pushbike and it would have better brakes that did not need to be adjusted everytime you got on the bike. £1500 should get you decent brakes.

 

[Mussels]

I have just sold my Wisper and the worse part about the bike was the brakes. They were terrible and it is hard to understand why. I could walk into halfords and spend £99 on pushbike and it would have better brakes that did not need to be adjusted everytime you got on the bike. £1500 should get you decent brakes.

It sounds like you had the old levers that had the pull ratio for centre pull brakes, lots of leverage but very tolerance in the setup requiring frequent adjustments.

Hydraulic brakes are better for one reason. Cables stretch whereas liquids will not compress. As such, the brakes can be set far more accurately as there's no need to allow for the stretch in the cables.

The brake fluid doesn't compress (OK, a little bit) but the hoses stretch quite a bit in some cases and the braking effect is still much better.

 

[Thunder457]

This appears all too complicated for me, the fact is, as another member pointed out, if you pay 1500 for a bike you would expect decent brakes, I too have bought a 100.00 bike from a high street store and had brilliant brakes. ?

You can argue all you like on what system is best but at the end of the day it has to work! And mine didnt

I do have a friend who has jingled his magic and I now have a front brake. And now as I type on the back....ahhh

 

[Alex728]

I feel a bit sorry for Wisper as this has occured just as presumably their main staff are at the London cycle show - but then again you cant' take your eye off the ball in business..

to be fair they do seem to have a policy of continuous improvement - for instance I would not have got a 905SE City in 2007/2008 but by 2009 a lot of teething problems seemed to have been ironed out so I was happy to get a 09 model..

I thought about getting the 905SE City S with disk brakes but am sceptical about them anyway and have always found v-brakes to be perfectly adequate on normal road conditions, including emergency stops.

on a personal note, seeing the term "sport" on a bike conjures up images of lycra, testosterone, sweat and syringes filled with drugs a 1990s raver would turn down - and doesn't seem so sit easy with the concept of e-bikes (even though they can be fast!)

I've often thought that a really positive thing any British/Chinese e-bike company could do was to train up a couple of the younger more ambitious Chinese staff to also contribute to forums like this, particularly if the UK staff are away at places like exhibitions or on holiday. Maybe pay for a few "business English" classes if they need them - with 8 hour time difference they could post replies when folks here are asleep without impacting on productivity levels in China, and people would log on again in the morning to hopefully find their queries answered. It could also communicate to both UK and CN staff exactly how design / component decisions directly affect customers at the frontline..

 

[flecc]

I've often thought that a really positive thing any British/Chinese e-bike company could do was to train up a couple of the younger more ambitious Chinese staff to also contribute to forums like this,

This happens a little in Wisper's case, since Dick Lai of Wisper in China (WEVCO) is a forum member and does try to help at times. here's his 22 posts:

DickLaiWisper
.

 

[dicklaiwisper]

Wisper shanghai

I've often thought that a really positive thing any British/Chinese e-bike company could do was to train up a couple of the younger more ambitious Chinese staff to also contribute to forums like this, particularly if the UK staff are away at places like exhibitions or on holiday. Maybe pay for a few "business English" classes if they need them - with 8 hour time difference they could post replies when folks here are asleep without impacting on productivity levels in China, and people would log on again in the morning to hopefully find their queries answered. It could also communicate to both UK and CN staff exactly how design / component decisions directly affect customers at the frontline..

Hi, I log this forum very often. I saw this post. Due to I'm not English, not sure my Chinese English expression will express original intention wrong, anyway, I have not the problem between UK colleague's communication. Hopefully will visit London later this year to feel pure English physically. With the encouragment from you folks here, I think I will reply more questions here in future.

Regarding the brake system. Wisper's 2008 and 2009 version bikes made a big improvment of the braking performacne. The 2007 version's brake levers were not good enough( has not enough pulling distance to have the disc brake stopped, but from my memorize, David replaced that levers free of charge in 2008).

Can anybody send the pictures of their brake levers to me? So I can express the fair attitude and seek solutions against it. Normally, the disc brake pad and V brake shoes need to be maintained or replaced after some periods of riding. Don't worry.... Wisper team will do the best to serve the users!!! Any questions in future, please contact the related dealers, Nomran at Wisper's UK service department or me in the fareast shanghai(dicklai@wisperbike.com)

Enjoy your Wisper bikes!!!

 

[Mussels]

A quick note for people with the Promax calipers (disk brakes on 905). My front brake is sometimes prone to locking on, this feels like a sticky brake lever which doesn't release stright away. It happens roughly every 3000 miles and tends to appear after heavy rain or snow, I'm not sure what causes it but if ignored it becomes progressively worse to the point that braking hard will cause it to lock full on and can only be released by rolling the wheel backwards. This happened on the way home last night turning right at a set of lights, the car behind wasn't expecting me to stop and as I have no brake light he ran into the back of me. Fortunately he swerved and just brushed my pannier but it was a close call, previously I have had it seize in the snow and that was an interesting ride home.
Fortunately a set of hex keys, kitchen roll and a bit of grease will fully service it in about 15 minutes.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Brakes

Thanks for the heads up Thunder, as everyone has seemed to be happy with the new 2009 braking system we thought we had the issue solved.

As has been reported by Eddeio we are all very busy at the bike show in London, however Norman has stayed in the office today to get this situation resolved and as you can see from the time of this post I am going to be late in due to calls to china specifically on the topic.

I worry thunder that there was a little oil or residue on your discs and pads that until the rains came down had not effected the braking. Norman will check into that today. It may simply be they need thoroughly cleaning before delivery.

Until I have more information from Norman, who as I say will be looking into the problem today, I can't make further comment or offer advice. I will ask Norman to Post here as soon as he has some answers.

Needless to say we will resolve the issue and replace the brakes free of charge if necessary.

It would be great if anyone having any braking issues could email Norman at service@wisperbikes.com and give as full as description of the problems as possible.

Any one experiencing braking problems should not ride their bikes until the problem has been rectified.

We will sort this out as a matter of extreme urgency.

Regards David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Brakes

As a matter of interest, those that have met me know that I am no light weight and tip the scales at an embarrassing 20 stones.

I ride my 905se Sport on a daily basis rain or shine and have never had a brake problem.

We have sold 1000's of bikes now and since the 2009 brake upgrades have had very few complaints. This leads me to think that there must be the occasional brake set that is not up to spec. From today I have included wet brake testing in our quality control procedure to ensure non of these problems reoccur.

WILL ANYONE EXPERIENCING POOR BRAKING ON THEIR WISPER PLEASE CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY AT MIALL@AOL.COM

I WILL ARRANGE TO HAVE THE BRAKES REPLACED.

If the poor performance is simply due to bad adjustment or worn parts we would will have to charge. However if we have supplied poor or faulty components we will carry out any work needed free of charge.

I need the battery and frame numbers, to confirm they actually are Wispers, sorry about this but we have had a lot of problems with people believing they have Wisper bikes but actually have the rip off clone. If it doesn't say Wisper on the frame it isn't a Wisper.

Best regards David

 

[Norman]

Wisper brakes

Just to confirm Davids earlier comments we are investigating this problem as a matter of urgency.

I would strongly recommend cleaning braking surfaces both on the discs and rims of new 2009 model Wispers before riding the bike for the first time to ensure any manufacturing residues are removed. Proprietary brake cleaning fluids are available from most cycle outlets or a suitable degreasing solvent can be used providing it does not leave a greasy residue or present any other hazard. Do not attempt to clean the friction material though and dispose of any contaminated brake pads and replace with new items

A similar cleaning process should be used before replacing disc pads or brake blocks during routine maintenance.

If any Wisper owners are concerned that the disc pads on their new 2009 bikes have been contaminated with manufacturing residues please contact me via wisper.service@wisper bikes.com and I will provide replacement pads immediately.

Norman

Wisper Service
wisper.service@wisperbikes.com
See the whole range @
wisperbikes.com

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Brakes

WILL ANYONE EXPERIENCING POOR BRAKING ON THEIR WISPER PLEASE CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY AT MIALL@AOL.COM

I WILL ARRANGE TO HAVE THE BRAKES REPLACED.

Hi Guys, I have not received a single request yet, if anyone is experiencing problems with their brakes please contact me as soon as possible.

Best regards David