Wish i could have helped a little more :(

[Fordulike]

Out on part of the C2C today, I came across some chap who had his bike upside down and was fiddling about in the bottom bracket area.

It turned out to be an electric bike which looked quite vintage. In fact it was called a Viking, with a shopping style frame. Very similar to this one:




The problem appeared to be the pedal sensor disc, which was cracked and looked like it had moved too far away from the little red electrical sensor.

I suggested to try and bend the sensor bracket towards the disc, but unfortunately that didn't work.

Luckily, he lived nearby and as he has retired, wasn't on his way to work.

I don't usually carry any tools with me, but I might rustle up a little tool bag, as a screwdriver might have come in handy.

 

[EddiePJ]

Equally, the other guy should have, or could have carried some basic tools.

my little kit, http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/and-the-kitchen-sink.19998/ the poncho has now gone, and been replaced with a proper pocket size cycling mac.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I usually carry one of these with me. They're really good quality. Don't waste your time with the cheaper ones, though there are unbranded versions of this one that are cheaper and made by the same producer.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181809753956&alt=web

 

[Alan Quay]

In my pocket, at all times (except on a plane):

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Topeak-Mini-6-Multi-Tool_54792.htm?sku=151783&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=AdwordsProductAds&utm_campaign=Adwords&gclid=CjwKEAjw6IauBRCJ3KPXkNro1BoSJAAhXxpyTtQivA-YYd-kerOLH2M-WWEDSJD6NL9nJyDJmDXn5BoCFYHw_wcB#


And:

http://www.leatherman-store.co.uk/multi-tools-c27/leatherman-wave-multi-tool-stainless-steel-p467

The same leatherman has been in my pocket for over 15 years. I'd be lost without it.

In my tool kit on the bike I have a 6" adjustable, puncture repair kit, 3 ally tyre levers, spoke spanner and cable ties.

 

[SteveRuss]

In my pocket, at all times (except on a plane):

And:

http://www.leatherman-store.co.uk/multi-tools-c27/leatherman-wave-multi-tool-stainless-steel-p467

I have a Gerber which as you probably know is very similar to a Leatherman. I do recommend though that although it's a very handy tool to have around, it's classed as a concealed knife as far as the law is concerned.

I know this as the industry I work in extensively carry them to and from work, which is the only excuse we have to carry them that may work in a legal challenge. I know of one person who was arrested and charged with carrying one. A notification that was sent out to all the members of an industry union i'm a member of.

 

[Alan Quay]

I have a Gerber which as you probably know is very similar to a Leatherman. I do recommend though that although it's a very handy tool to have around, it's classed as a concealed knife as far as the law is concerned.

I know this as the industry I work in extensively carry them to and from work, which is the only excuse we have to carry them that may work in a legal challenge. I know of one person who was arrested and charged with carrying one. A notification that was sent out to all the members of an industry union i'm a member of.

I wouldn't define it as 'Concealed'. Its not hidden other than by my pocket.

The bit in the legislation that is relevant seems to be 'Without good reason'.

As a professional Engineer and Cyclist I would say that I have good reason pretty much all the time.

It also seems that knives with blades less than 3" (e.g Swiss Army Knives) are exempted from the 'Good Reason' clause, although the blades on my Leatherman lock, so fall back into the 'Good Reason'.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

 

[SteveRuss]

I wouldn't define it as 'Concealed'. Its not hidden other than by my pocket.

The bit in the legislation that is relevant seems to be 'Without good reason'.

As a professional Engineer and Cyclist I would say that I have good reason pretty much all the time.

It also seems that knives with blades less than 3" (e.g Swiss Army Knives) are exempted from the 'Good Reason' clause, although the blades on my Leatherman lock, so fall back into the 'Good Reason'.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Just a word of warning was all it was.

The good reason bit appears to be travelling to and from work or being at work in an industry where it would be considered an commonly accepted work tool.

 

[Alan Quay]

Just a word of warning was all it was.

The good reason bit appears to be travelling to and from work or being at work in an industry where it would be considered an common work tool.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound argumentative. Its a fair point you make, and if ever I get stoped and searched, these are the arguments I will use.

Not that I've ever been stopped or searched in 42 years.

 

[RobF]

A favourite excuse from court defendants is: "I was helping a mate fit a carpet and forgot the knife was in my pocket."

As has been said, the charge is carrying a bladed article 'without lawful consent or reasonable excuse'.

That's open to interpretation, so what's required is common sense from the copper should you be stopped.

Rather worrying having to rely on that, but I've never heard of the charge being made in obviously inappropriate circumstances.

 

[Planemo]

If you have a blade with you, especially a locking one without any obvious justification for being in possession of it you are running the risk of being arrested. No ifs or buts. Simply stating 'I am a professional *whatever*' wont help unless it can be confirmed at the roadside or you are in possession of something else which backs up your claim. A big van full of carpet would help, but then most carpet fitters dont use Leathermans either so it would rest on how the bobby feels at the time.

Personally I wouldnt carry any locking blade on me unless I could prove there and then that I needed to. Non locking blades (such as swiss army knives) are a bit different but you still need justification as its a bladed article. The necessity is a lot less though. For someone going to/from fishing it wouldn't be a problem but the same guy might have issues with a leatherman as the obvious question would be 'what can the leatherman blade do that a swiss army knife can't' in a fishing environment.

In the same context, I think its highly dicey to be carrying a leatherman for 'cycling purposes'. What can you do with the blade that you couldnt do with a non-locking one?...

 

[SteveRuss]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound argumentative.

Actually you didn't at all.

I just thought I'd chuck that in just in case I came across as an authority on the subject for some reason !!!

 

[Alan Quay]

Funny enough, after 15 years of exposure to harsh environments (I.e my pocket) the only thing that's failed in my leatherman is the knife locking mechanism. So technically, it's probably legal to Cary without specific need/justification.

I'm happy to keep carrying mine. The risks far outweigh the benefit to me.

 

[SteveRuss]

Simply stating 'I am a professional *whatever*' wont help unless it can be confirmed at the roadside or you are in possession of something else which backs up your claim.

My view is that this is in fact not the case in my current understanding. If you have one (the items we're discussing) then don't take it out other than too and from a place of work unless the item in question is a common item in your workplace.

Stanley knives are probably a better example of where this may go wrong for us..

 

[Planemo]

Sorry, what bit do you think is 'not the case'? I think I am misunderstanding something.

I understand that if no one ever sees it then theres not going to be a problem but I dont think thats what you mean.

 

[Alan Quay]

I guess its a grey area.

Did you know that many police officers carry a leatherman (or similar) ?

I guess their argument for carrying such a device would be along the lines of 'I never know what I'll come up against while out in the beat, so I come prepared for every eventuality'.

I feel the same way. My leatherman has saved the day on so many occasions that it has become as essential to me as wallet/watch/phone.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned, or perhaps my rural location affects my need to be self reliant. Perhaps it because I'm an engineer.

I'm starting sound like I might end this post by saying '....from my cold dead hands....'

Oh, I nearly did!

 

[Black Dog]

I carry a Leatherman everywhere, although usually in a bag rather than on my belt. I always thought it was totally legal as the blade is under 3". However, reading that link I realise it is in fact a locking knife and I need 'good reason' to carry it. Since I don't often carry a knife to a museum for display purposes, I don't use it for work, and I am not a Sikh, I'm technically breaking the law. I'm assuming that 'because it's bloody useful in a million and one ways, I have no intention of hurting a soul, and I have never been convicted of a crime in my life' isn't a 'good reason' in the eyes of the law. I can only hope that any policemen who sees it with me is able to use a bit of discretion. Perhaps I am a bit naïve in this.

 

[Planemo]

Yes, well aware that many police officers carry locking blades. But then I dont imagine that any would have issues justifiying doing so either so its a moot point.

Im not for a minute suggesting who should or shouldnt carry a locking blade, and I am certainly not going to pass comment on the justification you have posted re yourself. I am just stating that I wouldnt carry a locker personally unless I could justify it (well) at any given point (no pun). In any event, I would certainly have the right hump were I to get nicked for carrying a locker when a folding pocketknife would have sufficed.

I very much take your point about being 'old fashioned' though. My old man is the same, although he takes it to the limit(and beyond) when it comes to various laws of the land. Cant teach an old dog new tricks and all that...

 

[Planemo]

I can only hope that any policemen who sees it with me is able to use a bit of discretion. Perhaps I am a bit naïve in this.

It'll be fine. Just explain that you need to carry a locker because you dont want to risk a flickback on a folder whilst using the blade to cut your nails. Your honour.

 

[SteveRuss]

Sorry, what bit do you think is 'not the case'? I think I am misunderstanding something.

I understand that if no one ever sees it then theres not going to be a problem but I dont think thats what you mean.

Sorry. I kind of miss read your comment. I think that proving you're traveling to and from work with something else you may be carrying would probably help the situation.

Getting caught with one is pretty unlikely as the police can't just rifle through people's pockets without reason although I have seen police at some London railway stations doing just that. I've been searched entering a tube station for no reason other than wearing a rucksack. I let them search it that once but I'm more sensitive about my rights these days.

 

[Planemo]

Although current rights are admittedly somewhat different to the Ways and Means Acts used of old, is is not strictly true that an individual can only be searched if they present immediate suspicion to a specific police officer.

Sec60 for example is a stop and search power that allows indiscriminate searches and can be invoked by a senior officer if there is belief that a certain area is susceptible to violent acts. Nearby to a football stadium for example.

Sec44 is another indiscriminate search power which comes under the terrorism act and can be invoked, as you would expect, to any area susceptible to terrorism. Your search at a London tube station maybe? I would suggest that you did the right thing to acquiesce at the time...

Of note (depending on when your tube search was) is that when Sec44 was first introduced a blanket footprint of the entire Greater London area was authorised for 10 years so being near stations/high areas of violence didn't even come into it. Although the ability to invoke such a broad area was repealed in 2012, the act is still live but now generally applies to designated, smaller areas.

I guess my point is that a Sec44 or 60 could be authorised in any area at any time and it is entirely likely that a member of the public will not have a clue it is in place. Just something to be aware of if you are adamant that you are carrying your locking blade because it provides you with something 'handy' which a folding one won't.

I fully appreciate your view regarding being sensitive about your rights, but I for one am extremely glad that both the above policies exist.