Wiring a brake-cut out to controller question

[morphix]

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help me with this little problem I'm having making a new wire loom for a controller.

I have a Brushless DC controller (9-pin HAL sensor style) which looks like a pretty standard small KU63 BMS-style. However it has a slightly different PCB layout and came from a different supplier (has model number "ST24ZWS-IID16" on housing). It came supplied with the common KT-LCD01 v2.5 LCD console (see below for pics of both).

I'm trying desperately to recreate one as a favour for a friend. I've managed to get the LCD working fine, as that's very easy from the colour coding of the wires.

The difficult part, is working how how the throttle, PAS sensor and brake-cut out sensor connect to the harness/controller.

Looking at the controller itself, it only has 2 cables out (8-way and 3-way) excluding the DC 24V input and the 9-way motor HAL sensor connector.

So we have a maximum of 11 wires out from the controller (8+3) for:

1. LCD console (5-way)
2. Thumb throttle (3-way)
3. PAS sensor (3-way)
4. Single in-line brake cut-out sensor (3-way)

Incidentally, all 4 of the above were working on this bike with this controller, prior to the wire harness being lost.

Observations:

1. The 3-way cable connector out from the controller unit has white/black/red wires.
2. The 8-way cable connector out from the controller unit has white/black/red/grey/yellow/blue/green/purple.
3. The throttle cable has black/red/white.
4. LCD console cable output has red/black/blue/yellow/green.
5. Brake motor cut-out sensor has black/red/white.
6. PAS sensor has black, red (and either green or blue).

Questions:

1. Since there's only one 3-way connector out, and it's white/black/red, it could be either the brake sensor or the throttle sensor, as both colours match. Which is more likely and is there a way of telling? (I have a multi-meter and basic electronics know-how).

2. Is it likely, that the original wire harness somehow either coupled the throttle+PAS sensor (when in use, both PAS and throttle could be used together, ie you could pedal with assistance AND use the throttle at same time, else you could switch independently to one mode on the LCD console, thereby disabling the throttle/PAS).

OR

3. Is it more likely, that the brake-cut sensor was wired into both the PAS/throttle negative (black) wire on the harness to cause a motor power feedback cut-out to the LCD console, and didn't touch the controller itself?

I'd welcome your thoughts/suggestions! I'm really scratching my head with this one, and don't want to risk damaging the controller, as it's the only one I have and I'm facing a tight deadline with this...the person needs it for next Monday!

Thanks in advance,

Paul

P.S. As an aside. I'm trying to make the controller cabling neater, sturdier and water-resistant than it is at present. I'm intending to put inside an IP62 plastic case with just 2 cables out using grommets and IP62 connectors. Is this a bad idea, as the aluminum housings of these controllers serves as a heat-sink? Would it be wiser to put the entire aluminum housing inside a new plastic housing, rather than just mount the PCB by itself?

Note: where you see bare tinned wires coming out of the controller above, they originally went into an 8-pin screw-thread connector on, which connected to the wire harness. 5 of those wires go to directly to the LCD (this I have confirmed), but the other three (purple/grey/white) I have no idea where or what they connect to.



Thanks,

Paul

Here's some more info on the controller:

The outside of the controller housing has the following:

Brushless DC Motor controller Model: KT24ZWS-IID16
Brake Input: low-level
Speed set: 1-4.2V
Max Current 13+/-1A

The PCB is marked with the following: 086-0521265576493 WWW.SZKTD2.COM KTE-S3-E3

The LCD console is the KT-LCD1 V2.5 4F model.

 

[morphix]

Here is an original drawing of the wire harness, although it never had two brake cut-out sensor connectors (only one):

From this drawing, we can conclude that the 3-pin socket from the controller is for the PAS sensor. That leaves the throttle and brake cut-out sensor to be figured out, how they manage to share only 3 wires on the 8-core cable.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I also have a controller with mystery wires

I have a cable that came with the 09 controller that looks like that. There are two twin wire brake connectors but those wires will be spliced and only one pair will come out on the controller end. They should be yellow and black.

I think that all the blacks will be spliced into one so yellow black brake. PAS signal could be on brown. Red, white and black can also be the external speed sensor as well as throttle...

 

[morphix]

I also have a controller with mystery wires

I have a cable that came with the 09 controller that looks like that. There are two twin wire brake connectors but those wires will be spliced and only one pair will come out on the controller end. They should be yellow and black.

I think that all the blacks will be spliced into one so yellow black brake. PAS signal could be on brown. Red, white and black can also be the external speed sensor as well as throttle...

Thanks Kiwi!

Short of experimenting with your line of thinking, I don't think there's much else I can do really. Since these controllers are only cheap, it's worth a shot I guess. It will take me just as long to get a new cable loom as it will a controller, so may as well give it a try...

 

[morphix]

UPDATE: I'm making some progress with this. The 3-pin connector out from the controller is definitely for the PAS. And the throttle seems to use the common +5v -5v red and black wires and the common white wire which the PAS sensor uses, as far as I can tell.

I've got the motor spinning, now just need to figure out the brake motor cut-out sensor part!

 

[emot7791]

Here's some more info on the controller:

The outside of the controller housing has the following:

Brushless DC Motor controller Model: KT24ZWS-IID16
Brake Input: low-level
Speed set: 1-4.2V
Max Current 13+/-1A

The PCB is marked with the following: 086-0521265576493 WWW.SZKTD2.COM KTE-S3-E3

The LCD console is the KT-LCD1 V2.5 4F model.

Hi, i´ve a PCB with the same markings. But the outside of the controller housing has the following:
Brushless DC Motor controller Model: KT36ZWS-XFC06E
Brake Input: low-level
Speed set: 1-4.2V
Max Current 14+/-1A

I think the wiring could be the same. But the colours of the wires are often
differently. Did you still need help?
Then I take pictures from the platine and label the soldered cables.

Maybe you can mark the connections for the display. They are missing at my pcb

Regards Tobi

 

[manman94]

Hi hopefully some here can help me in the photo I have circled the two brake connectors,as you see there are 3 wires but my bike has on 2 wires which are red and black how could solve this problem any help much appreciated

 

[saneagle]

Hi hopefully some here can help me in the photo I have circled the two brake connectors,as you see there are 3 wires but my bike has on 2 wires which are red and black how could solve this problem any help much appreciated

The two wires connect to the red and blue wires in the three pin connectors. You don't need two connectors The wires from each are soldered to the same point and the brake switchers work as either/or, so you can join both together in parallel. The two wires on each brake can be connected either way round, so red to yellow and black to blue or black to yellow and red to blue.

 

[manman94]

Thank you sir

 

[saneagle]

Thank you sir

 

[manman94]

Once again thanks for your patience and understanding greatful for all your help.
It's good to learn but sometimes difficult.