Will the end of full speed throttles in January 2016 cause a rush to buy.

[flecc]

I am assuming that all the froth generated in this thread has been in vain?

The updated EAPC guidelines on the Government website state as follows

EAPC requirements
The requirements are:

• the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
• the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
• the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts

The bike must also have a plate with the details about the manufacturer. It must also display either:

• the motor’s power output or the manufacturer
• the voltage of the battery or maximum speed of the bike

https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

There is no mention of throttles whatever and as my E Rider bikes meet this specification I am assuming there is no impediment to continuing to sell them without modification?

Ken

Not froth I'm afraid Ken, I wish it were. The problem is that the EU law has primacy in this area. As a result this is the view if the DfT:

Extract from Impact Assessment of the EAPC amendment regulation 2015

1.5 The GB Regulations do not prohibit vehicles from being classed as EAPCs if they have "Twist and Go" capability - i.e. vehicles fitted with a motor which can provide power assistance at any time without the rider pedalling (to the extent that such vehicles still meet the criteria in 1.2). However this type of product is now within the scope of EU Regulation 168/2013 and so will need to be type or individually approved for use on roads.
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[HJHdrYU]

On the other hand, I think the change in law will spurn manufacturers to improve on the pedal assist casesam.co.uk system.

 

[trex]

what's wrong with the pedal assist system? people mourn prematurely the passing of the 'twist and go' throttle. I can't see anyone in the UK getting into trouble for having one of those on an otherwise EN15194 bike.

 

[anotherkiwi]

What I don't get is how do us Europeans get along without a throttle? There is a whole continent over here without throttles, maybe the UK being not so far offshore could join it someday?

I see a lot of elderly tourists (mostly German or from Paris - another country as well...) on holiday here with their non throttle pedelecs. They seem to be doing just fine. I understand that technically, once you get used to it, having a throttle could be an advantage for the mobility restricted (who still have a sense of balance). But the absence of a throttle apparently hasn't stopped a boom in pedelec sales all over Europe.

 

[JohnCade]

Some of the Chinese systems on many UK bikes are very slow to kick in and can take half a crank revolution. That makes hill starts and quick getaways across traffic problematical. So throttles are useful with those bikes. My first ebike was like that and those were the only times I used the throttle.

That isn’t an issue with my current TS bike which gives power at a pedal push. So maybe newer rotation sensor bikes sold here without throttles will have a more sophisticated pedal control in future eliminating the need for them in most cases, other than rider disability.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree, on most bikes for most people there is no need for a throttle, especially if they have one up to 4mph to help get them moving.

We at Wisper, preempted the situation and produced the 905Torque and 705Torque, these bikes have a torque sensor as well as speed and cadence. Our Torque bikes turn on the power as soon as pressure is applied to the pedals. When the bike is stationary the system will recognise this and offer more assistance to get the bike moving from stand still. So a throttle strictly speaking is not needed.

However... we and a lot of other companies, offer cheaper bikes with simple cadence sensors, Such bikes really do benefit from the use of a throttle as the bike's motor will not turn on for up to a whole rotation of the pedals. For instance when you start cycling you would not get any assistance for the first few yards, when on a hill this is most inconvenient. The power will also cut off as soon as the pedals stop turning, only turning on again after up to a full rotation.

As well as the above, the throttle makes cycling more inclusive, there are a lot of people who throughly enjoy electric cycling, who either cannot comfortably make a full rotation of the pedals or who need to have a short rest every couple of minutes or so. All these people are being actively discriminated against.

We have happily lived with the throttle for the ten years I have been in the business, I have never heard of a safety issue with respect to throttle use. Whereas I have heard of problems with the power turning on unexpectedly when a rider starts pedaling. As Flecc says if the bike has been set to full power, for some, this can be quite alarming. A throttle is a great way of controlling the power.

On the bright side, it does seem, currently, that a throttle may be used as long as the pedals are rotating in a forward direction.

All the best, David

 

[shemozzle999]

What I don't get is how do us Europeans get along without a throttle? There is a whole continent over here without throttles, maybe the UK being not so far offshore could join it someday?

I see a lot of elderly tourists (mostly German or from Paris - another country as well...) on holiday here with their non throttle pedelecs. They seem to be doing just fine. I understand that technically, once you get used to it, having a throttle could be an advantage for the mobility restricted (who still have a sense of balance). But the absence of a throttle apparently hasn't stopped a boom in pedelec sales all over Europe.

With every boom you are going to get a bust when those existing Pedelecers you have seen are no long able to provide enough constant input into the pedals. They will then join the millions of people in Europe who have never had the opportunity to join in this revolution in cycling because of the unfair restrictions imposed.

 

[flecc]

With every boom you are going to get a bust when those existing Pedelecers you have seen are no long able to provide enough constant input into the pedals.

But I'm betting there won't be any such bust in the Mainland EU. The Dutch who have moved into pedelecs in such a big way commonly cycle unpowered into their 80s and even 90s, and it's that elderly population who are many of the new pedelecers.

Although I think the regulations should permit independent throttles, I'm with anotherkiwi in thinking the lack of throttle issue is greatly exaggerated. The EU regulations don't require constant pedal power input, just turning them is sufficient and there are plenty of e-bikes that cater for that.

I'm betting that in a few years time when the market is used to pedelec only, there won't be any talk of having throttles, just like the rest of the EU.
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[craiggor]

I think its just nice to have option's.I have no cut out on my brake's. First uphill stop I came to and I was shooting over the line because I pedaled.Only done it once more since.I would rather have a cut out for my pedal sensor than no throttle.They come in handy off road when you want a bit of power but can't pedal because you might catch your pedals on something.I'am just keeping a receipt for mine.I don't know what the problem is all the kids are going to be illegally flying drones to close to people and buildings they are not in control over.And doing that while there scooting down the pavement on illegal hoverboards this christmas.

 

[anotherkiwi]

But I'm betting there won't be any such bust in the Mainland EU. The Dutch who have moved into pedelecs in such a big way commonly cycle unpowered into their 80s and even 90s, and it's that elderly population who are many of the new pedelecers.
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There is a really bad bit of journalism in Bike Europe today:

"+16.2 % rise in e-bike sales in Holland in September. Unfortunately there is a drop in city and trekking bike sales to the order of 22%"

Um, er, could it just be that e-bikes are cannibalising sales of other types of bike? Don't they teach math to journalists (I know they don't teach common sense... )

 

[flecc]

Don't they teach math to journalists (I know they don't teach common sense... )

I think the reciprocals of percentages might be beyond them, here I'd like British journalists to learn the English language first.
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[Jimod]

What I don't understand about the throttle debates on here is: 2 of the posters don't want a throttle so they are opposed to anyone else having them. Both of those posters have also made comments which show their true colours.

What possible reason could anyone on here have for wanting throttles banned?

 

[Perseus]

I have had one go on a Kalkhoff and my conclusion was a the throttle would be very useful, almost essential (in traffic and on on hills). The dealer said the trick is to put in a low gear. I also thought from pedal cycling that hub gears are best. I was originally gonna go for a hub bicycle before ebikes became popular.

 

[JohnCade]

I have had one go on a Kalkhoff and my conclusion was a the throttle would be very useful, almost essential (in traffic and on on hills). The dealer said the trick is to put in a low gear. I also thought from pedal cycling that hub gears are best. I was originally gonna go for a hub bicycle before ebikes became popular.

I have a Kalkhoff and I think a throttle on it would be about as much use as a chocolate dildo. The pedal control is the throttle, and in traffic you just use a lower power setting if you’re afraid of running into the car in front. I can hill start on very steep hills with no problems, and I use clipless pedals which need to be clicked in in when I get going.

 

[mike killay]

My guess is that the mighty internet, which is far more powerful than bumptious politicians will have the final say.
I have just returned from Belgium where the increase in use of ebikes since last year is very obvious.
Nearly all used by older people, nearly all Bosch powered.
But one Lady proudly showed me her bike.
It was her old pedal bike which her son had converted for her with a Chinese kit.
It had an 8Fun hub motor and a throttle.
I looked in a couple of bike shops, but they only sold Bosch or Swiss motors/makes.
Wait until China hears about it!

 

[soundwave]

http://www.consultancy.uk/news/2802/europeans-buy-20-million-bikes-a-year-8-million-imports

 

[Jimod]

I have a Kalkhoff and I think a throttle on it would be about as much use as a chocolate dildo. The pedal control is the throttle, and in traffic you just use a lower power setting if you’re afraid of running into the car in front. I can hill start on very steep hills with no problems, and I use clipless pedals which need to be clicked in in when I get going.

So you don't need a throttle, put a disabled person on your bike then see if they can start on steep hills and clamp their feet to the pedals

Just because some don't need a throttle doesn't mean that others don't.

 

[Perseus]

So you don't need a throttle, put a disabled person on your bike then see if they can start on steep hills and clamp their feet to the pedals

Just because some don't need a throttle doesn't mean that others don't.

Good reply. The first ebike I saw was a German import maybe 12 years ago, by a disabled person who got one after heart transplant. Lead acid battery.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

There is a really bad bit of journalism in Bike Europe today:

"+16.2 % rise in e-bike sales in Holland in September. Unfortunately there is a drop in city and trekking bike sales to the order of 22%"

Um, er, could it just be that e-bikes are cannibalising sales of other types of bike? Don't they teach math to journalists (I know they don't teach common sense... )

Am I missing something? EBike sales up 16.2%. City and Trekking bikes (not ebikes) down 22%. Makes sense to me. [emoji848]

 

[JohnCade]

So you don't need a throttle, put a disabled person on your bike then see if they can start on steep hills and clamp their feet to the pedals

Just because some don't need a throttle doesn't mean that others don't.

I agree, and if you bothered to read up the thread to my post at 145 you would see that I wrote that throttles are useful for less able riders. But that was not the point of this post, which was simply that a TS bike like a Kalkhoff does not need a throttle, and it would be useless on it since the TS is the throttle.

If a rider is unable to ride a TS bike then he or she can buy one with a throttle, because they will still be legal next year. Even if in future throttles are restricted to 4mph - and that is still not clear - that will still be enough to get a less able rider started on a hill.