Will e-bikes ever enjoy mainstream popularity in the UK?

[Kudoscycles]

I have identified a critical marketing mistake by all ebike suppliers,Kudos included. We all are thorough about describing the specification of each bicycle...by way of example, Gears-Shimano M430 Alivio 44/32/22 or Suntour XCR-RL 26. This is fine for the knowlegeable converted but mind blowing confusion to the person having a first look at ebikes.
Accepting this my new catalogue is concentrating on selling a lifestyle,selling a scene to each type of bike,suggesting the advantages and use of an ebike,primarily in photo format. Also selling the beauty of the area we live in and how the ebike enhances the joy of that environment-the couple on a Sunday ride,the easy commute to work,meeting a friend at a cafe,riding down to the local.
I am being open about this because I hope my competitors also think about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the bike,for that is the only way we will introduce new people to the joy of electric bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[morphix]

Is there a possible business opportunity here? Are there few ebikes because there are no repairmen, or no repairmen because there are no ebikes? Like all businesses, there would be problems, notably getting hold of spares and or information in a timely manner. There are numerous bike shops who will not touch ebikes. They could become your friends, passing on jobs to you in exchange for an occasional bottle of whisky. It would be tough getting started, but if you were reliable, and reasonably priced, you would soon build a name for yourself. Remember you would still be free to refuse any job you did not like the look of.
It is the sort of business that would suit someone working part time, or a retired person. Initial capital investment would be fairly low, consisting of some tools and test gear, and a garage or even a garden shed. Working from home keeps overheads low, and saves commuting. It would be useful to have some statistics showing what faults cause the most frequent problems
It could also be a sideline for a LBS that is feeling the recession. Any thoughts?

I agree neptune, I think e-bikes opens up a whole range of business opportunities, it really is an industry which has massive growth potential much like the car industry with a big supply chain for parts and services. And because it's more eco-friendly than cars, there's also the recycling side of things, especially on batteries..with compatibles being made available for certain bikes, much like toner/ink for printers.

You could have specialists for kits fitting, training/trail places..and hire places are taking off..then there's the charging side of things and some places trying to establish storage and charging networks...(but Lyn and I have that covered ;-) even social events and are becoming popular, maybe owners clubs and membership etc.

Let's see what else.. insurance.. bike protection and security... new innovations for lighting and electronics (like the speedict project)...loads of things really.

I mentioned earlier the idea of a buying consortium idea to get access to cheaper parts and avoid costly and long delivery time problems from BMS/GreenBikeKit (and other firms) in China..using combined sea freight shipping, which would make self-building even more accessible and affordable for all.

 

[muckymits]

Contract on its way.....

Lynda

Contract? Is this like that master and slave one you made me sign the other month?

 

[funkylyn]

Contract? Is this like that master and slave one you made me sign the other month?

SSSSSHHHHH............yes.......now just sign it.......

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

I have identified a critical marketing mistake by all ebike suppliers,Kudos included. We all are thorough about describing the specification of each bicycle...by way of example, Gears-Shimano M430 Alivio 44/32/22 or Suntour XCR-RL 26. This is fine for the knowlegeable converted but mind blowing confusion to the person having a first look at ebikes.
Accepting this my new catalogue is concentrating on selling a lifestyle,selling a scene to each type of bike,suggesting the advantages and use of an ebike,primarily in photo format. Also selling the beauty of the area we live in and how the ebike enhances the joy of that environment-the couple on a Sunday ride,the easy commute to work,meeting a friend at a cafe,riding down to the local.
I am being open about this because I hope my competitors also think about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the bike,for that is the only way we will introduce new people to the joy of electric bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

OK Im getting serious again....now THAT is a really really good idea of yours Dave........probably the reason why I am still planning businesses in garden sheds and you have a luxury yacht

Lynda

 

[morphix]

I have identified a critical marketing mistake by all ebike suppliers,Kudos included. We all are thorough about describing the specification of each bicycle...by way of example, Gears-Shimano M430 Alivio 44/32/22 or Suntour XCR-RL 26. This is fine for the knowlegeable converted but mind blowing confusion to the person having a first look at ebikes.
Accepting this my new catalogue is concentrating on selling a lifestyle,selling a scene to each type of bike,suggesting the advantages and use of an ebike,primarily in photo format. Also selling the beauty of the area we live in and how the ebike enhances the joy of that environment-the couple on a Sunday ride,the easy commute to work,meeting a friend at a cafe,riding down to the local.
I am being open about this because I hope my competitors also think about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the bike,for that is the only way we will introduce new people to the joy of electric bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Good approach Dave and I think that is what is needed more in marketing eBikes..think about the LIFESTYLE BENEFITS rather than the actual product itself.. for me, like many owners, buying an e-bike was a life changing experience.. many might see them still as an expensive toy or gimmic, rather than a viable transport method and all the benefits of saving money, keeping fit and flexibility they offer etc. I think they are very empowering and the idea of being able cover vast distances not normally possible in very little time, hop on and off trains with them etc, is very appealing to many who like to travel or just explore the countryside.

Also it's never a better time to own one now with the financial squeeze many are under, the rising cost of petrol and insurance etc..many are looking to reduce household expenditure and do their bit for the environmental.

 

[Ajax]

And! In addition to all the above, the complete lack of a support network of firms who can fix the things when they go wrong, which in my experience they frequently do. In my city c.60,000 pop. there is not one e-bike repairman. If my daughter (for whom I act as unpaid mechanic) had been on her own, both the e-bikes she has owned would have been scrapped within a very short time, for want of repair. A great hobby, challenging and technically interesting, but everyday mainstream transport for the masses, no I don't think so. AG

Looks alike an opportunity to me. AA for electric vehicles anyone?

It might start with a site where you registered your e-bike and maybe received a decal to stick on your bike. A standard logo, which e-bikers everywhere could look out for.

All these registered users might lead to a support network which was funded in part by the major e-bike importers, so that their customers, whomever they were, had somewhere local to turn to for assistance. Then with enough registered e-bikers from all spheres of e-bikedom, you might get recognition in other quarters for this sector of transport.

As an example, government would have a figure to work with, ditto any other organization which might spring up on the back of this initiative. It has to start somewhere, so why not in the form of an AA for e-transport?

 

[morphix]

Looks alike an opportunity to me. AA for electric vehicles anyone?

It might start with a site where you registered your e-bike and maybe received a decal to stick on your bike. A standard logo, which e-bikers everywhere could look out for.

All these registered users might lead to a support network which was funded in part by the major e-bike importers, so that their customers, whomever they were, had somewhere local to turn to for assistance. Then with enough registered e-bikers from all spheres of e-bikedom, you might get recognition in other quarters for this sector of transport.

As an example, government would have a figure to work with, ditto any other organization which might spring up on the back of this initiative. It has to start somewhere, so why not in the form of an AA for e-transport?

I've been making some contact with government departments about e-bikes, both of terms lobbying for more support for the industry and in my role with CycleCharge in seeking funding and government backing, and it's surprising their lack of interest and the wall I've come up against to-date. Apart from the Cycle to Work scheme, all they seem to be interested in with e-bikes is regulation. I dont think the government (for whatever reasons) yet sees e-bikes as part of the "greener economy" solution they're striving to achieve with their ambitious Co2 reduction commitments. They're also ignoring all the potential social benefits and the potential for reducing traffic on roads (a big problem the government is facing) and reducing NHS costs/lost work time through better public health. I've tried to argue these points but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I do think the government could do a lot more to help the industry grow. Maybe BEBA will have more luck as it grows in forging links and opening dialogue with the Department of Transport and other government agencies. Or it may just be the case as usual, that we have to organise it and do it ourselves as an industry.

It's been said too, that we as a country could be leading the world in introducing new technologies to the market if the government really got behind the industry and made more funding/tax incentives etc available to businesses.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Ajax.....www.fietsned.nl....mobile bike repairman,I know the guy who runs it,very succesful business. They also offer an introduction and setup for ebikes,charge euro 50.....many ebike suppliers use fietsned to deliver/setup/maintain ebikes....they are very good.
Some guy tried to start the same here,saw him at the London Cycle show a couple of years ago but the business looked amateurish and underfunded.
I would deliver every new Kudos bike through such a business if it was properly organised.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[morphix]

Ajax.....http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/www.fietsned.nl....mobile bike repairman,I know the guy who runs it,very succesful business. They also offer an introduction and setup for ebikes,charge euro 50.....many ebike suppliers use fietsned to deliver/setup/maintain ebikes....they are very good.
Some guy tried to start the same here,saw him at the London Cycle show a couple of years ago but the business looked amateurish and underfunded.
I would deliver every new Kudos bike through such a business if it was properly organised.
Dave
Kudoscycles

I think that's a good idea and good business.. like a delivery and installation/bike check service..you could quickly establish a network that covers all areas of the UK...you could either specialise in certain brands of bike and work with those companies to sell your service at the point of sale...or just do a general service that covers all bikes and market it on eBay etc.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have a friend who sells 10,000 ebikes per year in holland,all through internet or mail order advertising,they are mainly simple step through bikes,in various sizes,price point is cheap euro 799.00.
The bikes get distributed from a number of warehouses throughout Holland.
When a bike is sold the nearest FietsNed mobile man picks up the bike,delivers it to the customer,sets the bike up,checks the customer is happy with the operation. Shortly after purchase the mobile man returns,checks customer is happy,adjusts gear/brake cables etc.
If anything goes wrong with the bike FietsNed returns whilst the bike is in warranty and repairs according to fault,the ebike supplier continues to offer spares support but not labour support.
The ebike supplier includes an allowance for this service in the original sale price of the bike.
The system works very well but in Holland they have the volumes to make the system viable,here we just dont sell enough bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

So how do the millions of Hub bike users in China manage ?

They don't ride the e=bikes they sell to us. What they call an e-bike is something like a scooter, 20 mph, often two three or even four on board, powered with a motor of around 700 watts rating so they never pedal, and mostly equipped with SLA batteries (though that's changing). In addition, because there are hundreds of thousands of these things everywhere, they do have repair facilities.

 

[morphix]

I have a friend who sells 10,000 ebikes per year in holland,all through internet or mail order advertising,they are mainly simple step through bikes,in various sizes,price point is cheap euro 799.00.
The bikes get distributed from a number of warehouses throughout Holland.
When a bike is sold the nearest FietsNed mobile man picks up the bike,delivers it to the customer,sets the bike up,checks the customer is happy with the operation. Shortly after purchase the mobile man returns,checks customer is happy,adjusts gear/brake cables etc.
If anything goes wrong with the bike FietsNed returns whilst the bike is in warranty and repairs according to fault,the ebike supplier continues to offer spares support but not labour support.
The ebike supplier includes an allowance for this service in the original sale price of the bike.
The system works very well but in Holland they have the volumes to make the system viable,here we just dont sell enough bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

I think a cheap good bike will always capture sales rather than trying to convince buyers to part with more cash..the way the market seems to be going in UK is that bikes are getting cheaper and cheaper.. the type of operation in Holland would be difficult to do in UK I think with so many different tastes and such a wider market...unless you were already well established with big sales volume as you said, or a network of people around the UK to cover different areas. I've said in the past that a good business model for e-bikes to keep them accessible and affordable (but still profitable for businesses) is to take a modular approach and that would mean letting customers choose what they want or don't want at the time of ordering.. battery size, service support, extra warranty etc.. this is the way of other industries now in so far as warranties are concerned..even eBay (or their partners) have started doing warranties on second hand electrical items.. so with e-bikes you could offer an add-on extended warranty and you include free collection/delivery x number of times a year in the price if anything goes wrong.

 

[flecc]

It would be useful to have some statistics showing what faults cause the most frequent problems

In order of occurrence from observation over the six years of this forum:

1) Connection loss on hub motor e-bikes. Common causes, Damp ingress/connection corrosion, loss of connection at an inline connector, severed motor cable connection, Hall or phase wire open circuit, brake cut-out operating incorrectly.

2) Low voltage cut-out due to battery nearing end of life. This is often misinterpreted as a system fault, particularly on bikes like some Powacycle models with crude controllers that don't latch off at the cut-out, so switch in and out of power as load is applied or removed.

3) Throttles on bikes equipped with them. A surprising number of these fail, mostly due to cheap construction.

4) Displaced/damaged pedelec disc or sensor mount.

4) Controller failure.

5) A collection of other faults such as: Failed motor Hall sensor, open circuit motor windings/internal connections, shredded motor gears, mechanical failures in Tongxin motors.

The sophisticated crank drive units are generally very reliable and hardly ever suffer internal faults. The first generation Panasonic unit on the Lafree and early BikeTec Flyers had a few known possible faults, most repairable with the advice from my Panasonic support website, but they incur a considerable time penalty for labour charges. On the later Panasonic units, the initial ones with a single chain guide sprocket can suffer from chain jumping if the setting of this is incorrect, again advice on my site, but later ones with the two sprocket guide have this designed out. Bosch, Daum and Impulse units drive through the chainwheel so don't have this associated problem. Overall the modern crank drive units just suffer from some higher transmission wear, a bicycle fault rather than e-bike fault issue. With their lower power and superior management, they also enjoy much longer battery lives.

 

[neptune]

Re selling the lifestyle rather than the product. In the Advertising Industry they have a saying.

Sell the sizzle, not the sausages.

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

funny, just said same on post relating to Daisy Goodwin's article in the Sunday Times