Will a pedelec work for me?

[Wisper Bikes]

Confused

Hi David,

I live in North Somerset - Priddy to be precise - on top the Mendip hills. Where is the closest dealer?

Also, I am confused about the different models and specs?

What motor does the 905se city have? Is it the 200w or 250w unit?
Likewise for the 905se sport?

Cheers, BM.

Hi BM

Sorry for the confusion, all our motors are 250w.

For full specs please visit Works 905e

Please send me your email address to miall@aol.ocm and I will arrange a test ride for you.

Best regards David

 

[flecc]

Hi Mussels and Elephants thanks for your help, it's one thing us saying the bikes are good, but when it comes from a customer it's carries so much more weight.

Love the inadvertent joke there David, saying that advice from Elephants carries so much more weight.
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[Wisper Bikes]

Weighty problem

Oops I missed that Flecc, If one was being really mean I suppose I would accept that I carry even more weight than Elephants!!!!!!!!!!!

(I thought I would get that in before any one else did!)

Regards David

 

[ElephantsGerald]

Oops I missed that Flecc, If one was being really mean I suppose I would accept that I carry even more weight than Elephants!!!!!!!!!!!

(I thought I would get that in before any one else did!)

Regards David

I don't want to get heavy about this, but I like to think I'm quite diminutive compared to my pachydermal brethren.

Good to know that theres a colossal mass of people who are very happy with the 905SE.

Regards,

Elephants

 

[bogmonster]

I was going to test my route tomorrow on a regular, full person powered bike but the weather forecast is putting me off

So, can anybody recommend an e-bike with amphibious capabilities?

 

[flecc]

Yes, the Kalkhoff Agattu!

This extract from my review and test refers:

"Following the previous day's heavy rain, I knew of a point where there would be deep water to ford, and never having tested a Panasonic unit in that, but knowing how well it's sealed, I headed there next. On the graph above near the 18 mile point you can see a very sharp dip, this being a fold in the Downs with very high level fields either side of the lowest point of this dip in Farleigh Court Road which has no drainage system.

Sure enough it was filled with a several yard wide pond, so keeping the pedals horizontal and pulsing them to give flicks of drive power, I ventured in. It was deeper than I thought, just touching the bottom of the hubdyno and completely submerging the motor unit, so I still got my feet very wet anyway as I forded across. As expected the motor unit didn't notice it, the sealing as perfect as the old model's always was, and measurement to the hubdyno lower edge later showed that the water had reached 12" / 30 cm deep. With motor to ground clearance of 7.5" / 19 cm and lower pedal clearance of over 5" / 13 cm, and a central motor/battery unit away from direct shocks, that waterproofing makes this bike a very good overall choice where rough tracks and standing water are to be ridden."
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[Mussels]

Wisper can supply spokes of course, but St Johns Cycles stock a full range of excellent quality British made short spokes covering nearly all these hub motor lengths. I've used these successfully on e-bikes, both hub motor and small wheel non motor bikes. Here's the link:

SJS spokes
.

I'm getting some spokes from the retailer, he's breaking a wheel to get them so I'm OK for now. Your link doesn't have what I need, they are 13g 200mm - is there an alternative you can think of as these look very difficult to get hold of.

Sorry for the thread derail.

 

[flecc]

I'm getting some spokes from the retailer, he's breaking a wheel to get them so I'm OK for now. Your link doesn't have what I need, they are 13g 200mm - is there an alternative you can think of as these look very difficult to get hold of.

Sorry for the thread derail.

The 14 gauge will do the job ok, I've repaired and rebuilt motor and plain wheels with them.

However, David Miall posted elsewhere the other day that if you get in touch with them direct, he'll fix owners up with the original spokes.

david@wisperbike.com
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[Mattyduk]

quite interested in the Wisper 905SE myself. As i'd said previously I've been riding manual for the last year and whilst it's fine in the Summer (when we get one !), I'd like a bit of help in the Winter.

My previous bike was the Synergie Extreme which bears a similar look (although probably not in real life ! ) to the Wisper.

It was a hulking monster (35kg!), lead acid battery and very dodgy brakes !

I was going to wait for the new Infinium/Powabyke as I wanted something that was not only a massive leap from the Extreme but also looked quite different.

Hmm, tough one. I've only got a 3.5 mile each way commute, so I imagine with the SE I might get away with 1 charge a week (35 miles). Come on, someone convince me

 

[bogmonster]

quite interested in the Wisper 905SE myself. As i'd said previously I've been riding manual for the last year and whilst it's fine in the Summer (when we get one !), I'd like a bit of help in the Winter.

My previous bike was the Synergie Extreme which bears a similar look (although probably not in real life ! ) to the Wisper.

It was a hulking monster (35kg!), lead acid battery and very dodgy brakes !

I was going to wait for the new Infinium/Powabyke as I wanted something that was not only a massive leap from the Extreme but also looked quite different.

Hmm, tough one. I've only got a 3.5 mile each way commute, so I imagine with the SE I might get away with 1 charge a week (35 miles). Come on, someone convince me

How do you fancy trading commute?

I think if I had 3.5 miles each way and didn't want the bike for longer leisure use I would go for the cheapest option going but I'm tight fisted like that. That would be a cheepo pair of trainers for me and a nice walk

 

[flecc]

Hmm, tough one. I've only got a 3.5 mile each way commute, so I imagine with the SE I might get away with 1 charge a week (35 miles). Come on, someone convince me

It's actually more possible that 35 miles straight off. Lithium batteries generally prefer and easy life and respond well to rests, giving a little charge recovery each time. As to 35 miles on the 905se, it depends on your riding style, but many others achieve it.
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[Gyro]

Hi I hope you dont mind me joining in here!
I had a test ride on an Agattu (as reccommended to me by flecc in a different thread) on Sunday at Frodsham just off the M56 courtesy of Ian of Go Green Cycle Company.
The bike was fantastic It took my 5'8" 95kg to the top of Frodsham hill with relative ease & although the very steep bits were harder work I remained in the saddle and peddled to the top I was elated. The gentler but still significant slopes were a breeze! I wouldnt have got past the first 100meters on an ordinary bike even with lots of gears.
I have possibly tested the best bike first, time will tell.
I now wish to try out the wisper 705 I prefer step through due to medical issues and wonder if this has similar performance to the wisper 905.
I live in Suffolk so Cambridge is an option for a test but I don't think they stock the 705. (any other options, Dave?) I also want to try out some cheaper models like the lower range Izip's as we will mainly use when out with the campervan. Usually in hilly areas. Any further comments please. Though the performance of the Agattu is fantastic & would probably be my first choice it is more than I can really afford, considering the limited use it would get. I'm also considering putting a trailer on the bike so the pooch can join us, though that's a maybe.

Keith

 

[flecc]

Hub motor bikes are generally at a disadvantage on steeper hills Keith, since the motor is geared for the legal speed which is a bit high for hill climbing. The Agattu drives through the gears of course, so the motor is always geared to suit the gradient as the rider changes gear.

The 705 is lower powered than the 905se so is probably less suitable for those steep hills, though lesser ones will be no problem.

I noticed a senior member whose journey requirements has changed is selling his recent Agattu for £800, and it occurs this could be a solution for you. It's a 49 cm step through, so the right size and type for you. Here's the link to the advert in our classified section:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/2632-kalkhoff-pedelec-agattu-49cm-sale.html#post34068

You can PM him as requested from this link:

Citrus Private message
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[bogmonster]

quite interested in the Wisper 905SE myself. As i'd said previously I've been riding manual for the last year and whilst it's fine in the Summer (when we get one !), I'd like a bit of help in the Winter.

My previous bike was the Synergie Extreme which bears a similar look (although probably not in real life ! ) to the Wisper.

It was a hulking monster (35kg!), lead acid battery and very dodgy brakes !

I was going to wait for the new Infinium/Powabyke as I wanted something that was not only a massive leap from the Extreme but also looked quite different.

Hmm, tough one. I've only got a 3.5 mile each way commute, so I imagine with the SE I might get away with 1 charge a week (35 miles). Come on, someone convince me

MattyDuk,

Sorry, my last reply was quite flipant - grumpy, having a bad day! For what it is worth I think I am going to get the Wisper. Its about the only option that is fast enough and has enough capacity for my needs. I am tight fisted and think that if could get away with it I would look for a cheaper option such as an Alien kit on my existing bike. My bike is a bit too old and cranky for that and the alien kit only has a 10a battery. Alternatively if I had a shorter commute and fewer hills (sub 15 miles) I think I would go for a folder such as ther Dahon with the 24v Alien kit. Somebody on the forums did a very nice conversion. Sub 10 miles and I would cycle an ordinary pushie. I guess with a shorter commute and a real desire or need to an electric bike I think I would wait for a month or so and see what the new models have to offer. I suspect that they would not be as good as the Wisper so it would come down to price.

Horses for courses I guess. The Wisper is the only real option I can find that fits my specific needs so a Wisper it shall be for me. Given your commute I think you have more options open so it might be worth thinking about other nice to haves?

Would a folder be useful?
Do you desire help with very steep hills (from what I have read a Panasonic based machine is the winner here)?
Do you want to keep as much cash as possible to spend on beer instead
How important is speed?
How much effort do you want to put in?
Do you want a bike that is as close to a regular bike as possible with just a little help when the going gets tough?

I know little about electric bikes but I do know that I asked myself all of the above questions. Unfortunately for me there were conflicts, the perfect bike does not exist for my needs so I comprimised and weighted the decision the points that were most important to me.

My reasoning is as follows:

Want folder but can't find one that will do the combination of speed, distance and hills.
Don't need a bike to cope with mega hills so don't need the Panasonic that would be too slow elsewhere. But do want 36v.
Want to keep as much cash as possible and the Wisper is not the most expensive unit.
Happy to put some effort in - actually, I am wondering if I have gtone too far and the bike will be too moped like for me

Before I finally make uo my mind I will try a Wisper and see how I get on with my old bike - cycling my old bike without a motor is the cheapest option Did 10 mile tonight up and down lots of hills in just over 30 mins so with a bit of practice...

But if it's convincing you want, get one, get one, get one...

BM

 

[Gyro]

Many thanks flecc

 

[JohnInStockie]

Don't need a bike to cope with mega hills so don't need the Panasonic that would be too slow elsewhere. .....Happy to put some effort in - actually, I am wondering if I have gtone too far and the bike will be too moped like for me

Just for referece BM, whats been said about the Panasonic's is for the basic model. If you were to get a Pro-Connect for example, and then put a 16T cog on it, you would be flying far faster than anything except a deresticted Torq 1 could give you, and it would demand that you put some effort in. FYI I am doing my 22 mile commute on a Pro-Connect with an 18T cog and am doing it in about 1 hour 20 mins including stops, or less, with normally 33%+ of the battery left, and I am not pushing myself at all hard, and never go below 4th (of 8) gears even up railway bridges, never stand up at all either.

If I went down to a 16T, I know the range would be effected, maybe down to only 15% left perhaps, but so would my time, but what effect on the battery life long term I dont know.

Just so you know there are more than 1 option, especiall if you are considering 'putting something in' yourself as you said.

John

 

[ElephantsGerald]

quite interested in the Wisper 905SE myself. As i'd said previously I've been riding manual for the last year and whilst it's fine in the Summer (when we get one !), I'd like a bit of help in the Winter.

My previous bike was the Synergie Extreme which bears a similar look (although probably not in real life ! ) to the Wisper.

It was a hulking monster (35kg!), lead acid battery and very dodgy brakes !

I was going to wait for the new Infinium/Powabyke as I wanted something that was not only a massive leap from the Extreme but also looked quite different.

Hmm, tough one. I've only got a 3.5 mile each way commute, so I imagine with the SE I might get away with 1 charge a week (35 miles). Come on, someone convince me

Hi Mattyduk,

The Wisper 905SE will easily do 35 miles on a single charge. I can get 40 miles out of mine, and my commute is pretty hilly with 2762ft of ascents (see Wisper 905SE Test).

I don't want to put you off the Wisper (its a fine bike), but with a 7 mile round trip you don't "need" a bike with a really good range. There are plenty of cheaper options with good reviews from other forum members such as the Synergie Mistral (which uses a lithium battery so is much lighter than the Synergie Extreme). As a regular cyclist you might find something like the Cytronex suits you better, and leaves you a few hundred quid better off.

Regards,

Elephants

 

[bogmonster]

Just for referece BM, whats been said about the Panasonic's is for the basic model. If you were to get a Pro-Connect for example, and then put a 16T cog on it, you would be flying far faster than anything except a deresticted Torq 1 could give you, and it would demand that you put some effort in. FYI I am doing my 22 mile commute on a Pro-Connect with an 18T cog and am doing it in about 1 hour 20 mins including stops, or less, with normally 33%+ of the battery left, and I am not pushing myself at all hard, and never go below 4th (of 8) gears even up railway bridges, never stand up at all either.

If I went down to a 16T, I know the range would be effected, maybe down to only 15% left perhaps, but so would my time, but what effect on the battery life long term I dont know.

Just so you know there are more than 1 option, especiall if you are considering 'putting something in' yourself as you said.

John

John,

That is is good point you make. I had considered this but thought that as the bike starts dropping off power assist at about 9 mph (standard gearing) in a series of steps then you would need significant overgearing to still get reasonable assist at 18+ mph? Have I got this wrong?

I do like the concept of a motor that can be geared (especially if it is driven through gears) to alter the speed at which max tourque, max efficiency etc occur. A panansonic type setup that didn't tail off in steps as RPM goes up would fit the bill nicely. Can't find such an animal

The real issue I have is no real life exposure to electric bikes - better go and have a look at some at the weekend....

So all of this begs a really stupid question. With a hub based bike such as the Wisper, with 'off road' enabled the bike under its own steam will reach say 18mph on the flat. Presumably if I put some effort it I can reduce it's current draw. If I put lots of effort in I could increase the speed above 19mph but as this is beyond the speed the motor was designed to run, would it start working against me or would it simply be less efficient?

BM

 

[Mattyduk]

thanks for all the replies (didn't mean to hijack the thread !).

I'll see what's available at the end of September and see if I really need to get another e-bike or am I just being lazy ! It's just that last Winter, when you get all your warm coat/overalls on etc, and the wind's howling, it was a real tough cycle sometimes especially with such a light manual bike that I have at the moment.

I wanted to keep away from the Synergie models, as although I did have a year of use out of it, it had some build issues. Maybe things have improved with the mistral version

I've got a few hills, but nothing really steep. So I guess I'll either go for the Wisper, but I'll take a look at some of the others recommended here.

 

[flecc]

John,

So all of this begs a really stupid question. With a hub based bike such as the Wisper, with 'off road' enabled the bike under its own steam will reach say 18mph on the flat. Presumably if I put some effort it I can reduce it's current draw. If I put lots of effort in I could increase the speed above 19mph but as this is beyond the speed the motor was designed to run, would it start working against me or would it simply be less efficient?

BM

Not a stupid question at all. You won't have to reduce it's current draw since these motors are at their highest efficiency at near to the maximum speed anyway, so also using the least current for the power produced. They are at their most inefficient at a little over half that speed or less as when hill climbing, so using the most current then.

It can be a struggle to pedal over the assisted speed with an internally geared hub motor since you are dragging along the epicyclic gears, most finding it exhausting to maintain speeds above the bike's maximum. The Panasonic unit bikes have the advantage there.

The drop off of power still happens in the Panasonic unit, but it's initial speed point raised. With an 18 tooth on the Pro Connect, it's raised from 9.4 mph to 12 mph, but remember it's a gradual fall. In addition, one can always use the high power mode to readjust the delivered power upwards and compensate.
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