Why so few hub geared bikes with belts ? Looking at Kalkhoff

[nigelbb]

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I am now the happy owner of a Woosh Sundowner for £500. It looks brand new without a mark on it with only 98 miles on the clock. It must have been stored in a spare bedroom for the last few years. It doesn't have a belt drive but it's almost exactly what I wanted in a bike. Oddly it's missing the all enclosed chain guard that it would have had originally.

I took it out for an 11 mile ride last night. There was still plenty of battery life left when I got home at least according to the LCD. It's light for an ebike & with the upright riding position & swept handlebars very much more comfortable to ride than my hybrid & I don't get the pins & needles & numbness in my wrists & hands that I get on the hybrid. The motor provides slightly less assistance than the XF07 on my hybrid but that's all to the good as it makes me pedal a little harder than on the hybrid so I get a bit more exercise.

I can get a new 8.8Ah battery off eBay for £180 or Jimmy will re-cell the old one to 14.5Ah for £300 but I'll see what sort of range I get out of the original battery before deciding on a purchase. I would like to get a chain guard though.

 

[sjpt]

Sounds as if you hit very lucky. I hope the battery proves to have lots more life in it, and the bike even more.

Enjoy.

 

[nigelbb]

Sounds as if you hit very lucky. I hope the battery proves to have lots more life in it, and the bike even more.

Enjoy.

In the end I thought that £500 was a fair price. It might have only cost £699 new but there aren't any new ebikes to be had for that price nowadays except apparently the Kudos Safari & this is a lighter & arguably better bike. We have also had great experience with service from Woosh. Southend is only an hour's drive from us & we already have a Woosh hybrid conversion each plus my partner has a Woosh Petite that she loves.

 

[Nealh]

Hatti will be very pleased that her bikes are able to achieve good used prices.
Contacting them may produce a chain guard you never know !!!!
The battery may well still give good service, use it gently don't discharge it too deeply to start with.
In normal times the bike although in near mint condition wouldn't be worth the 500 but some bike are scarce or any due to arrive in the country will be pre-ordered and sold already.
As with any buy if it is of a certain design/type you are looking for then value doesn't come in to it if you are happy with it.

 

[nigelbb]

Hatti will be very pleased that her bikes are able to achieve good used prices.
Contacting them may produce a chain guard you never know !!!!
The battery may well still give good service, use it gently don't discharge it too deeply to start with.
In normal times the bike although in near mint condition wouldn't be worth the 500 but some bike are scarce or any due to arrive in the country will be pre-ordered and sold already.
As with any buy if it is of a certain design/type you are looking for then value doesn't come in to it if you are happy with it.

A Santana or Big Bear would be £1000-£1100 so even with a re-celled battery I would be saving money plus most importantly at the moment I can’t buy a Santana or Big Bear for immediate delivery.
We paid £450 a few months ago for my partner’s Woosh Petite via a customer advert on the Woosh website. That too was in excellent condition too with 500 miles on the clock. The battery in that seems OK. We have done a couple of 25 mile rides & it still appeared to have plenty of juice left.
So we have 2 almost unused bikes for the price of one new one so I think we have got value for money.

 

[vfr400]

A Santana or Big Bear would be £1000-£1100 so even with a re-celled battery I would be saving money plus most importantly at the moment I can’t buy a Santana or Big Bear for immediate delivery.
We paid £450 a few months ago for my partner’s Woosh Petite via a customer advert on the Woosh website. That too was in excellent condition too with 500 miles on the clock. The battery in that seems OK. We have done a couple of 25 mile rides & it still appeared to have plenty of juice left.
So we have 2 almost unused bikes for the price of one new one so I think we have got value for money.

As I always say, all ebikes work and all make you happy when you ride them. The worst thing is not having an ebike.

 

[nigelbb]

I took the Woosh Sundowner out for a 22 mile ride yesterday & on my return there was one third battery left according to the meter so it looks like the battery isn't in too bad shape. After we stopped halfway I encountered an Error 23 which some quick Googling revealed could be a disconnected motor connection which indeed it was & I would have realised if I had looked at the front wheel. I must have caught the cable as I parked the bike.

The motor is definitely a bit less powerful than the XF07 on my hybrid but as long as I keep up momentum it's not an issue. On a couple of hills I was in first gear & maximum on the motor boost but at least I didn't have to get off & push It's no bad thing as it gives me a little more exercise. The throttle is handy for a speedy getaway when pulling out at road junctions. I have adjusted the handlebars so they are more upright & swept back. This is so much more comfortable & nicer for leisure cycling as you get to see the countryside instead of the road & avoids a crick in the neck.

 

[Nealh]

Well done Nigel, you got what you wanted and Woosh are nearby should you encounter any issues.

 

[ElectricJoe]

Hi, I have just ordered Volt Axis, although it’s a folder it has a Gates belt drive, Shimano Steps crank drive and Shimano D2 hub gears. Should get it tomorrow if this could be of interest

Hi Trek, where did you order it from? Volt don't seem to make it any more, at least I can't see it on their website.

 

[ElectricJoe]

It seems to me a very weird thing to do to fit a dynamo to an electric bike. People think that the dynamo makes electricity for nothing. On an electric bike, the dynamo is taking power for the lights from the battery with an efficiency loss, so you might as well save your money and take the electricity directly from a battery and get full efficiency for it.

Does that have to be correct? It could be the dynamo only takes power from the riders pedalling (like it does on an ordinary bike)

 

[Samcycles]

Hi Trek, where did you order it from? Volt don't seem to make it any more, at least I can't see it on their website.

Still available and delivery in 1 week. Looks like a cracking high spec folder and great to see Volt opening their new UK factory.

One moment, please...

 

[ElectricJoe]

Still available and delivery in 1 week. Looks like a cracking high spec folder and great to see Volt opening their new UK factory.

One moment, please...

Thanks. Its there i just couldn't see it !

 

[vfr400]

Does that have to be correct? It could be the dynamo only takes power from the riders pedalling (like it does on an ordinary bike)

There are two sources of power, which are your pedalling and the motor assistance that combine together. That power can be shared between propelling you forward and turning the dynamo to work the lights.

The idea of an electric bike is to get easier pedalling by adding power from a motor to yours. Surely, if that's your idea, why would you want to make pedalling harder with a dynamo? If you're pedalling with the same effort when the lights are on as when off, the power for the dynamo is coming from the motor and battery. The only way to get power to the dynamo without taking additional power from the motor and battery would be to pedal harder than when the lights are off.

Basically, you're taking power from the battery to drive the motor, which pushes the bike forward and turns the dynamo, which makes electricity for the lights.

Tests have shown that a modern 5w hub-dynamo takes about 8w of pedal power to work it. The average non-sporting ebiker pedals with about 60w to 100w, so that 8w is something like 10%. In other words, you can increase the power from the motor to compensate as long as you're not already on max power, or you can pedal 10% harder.

If you run your lights from an independent battery, you can have them on or off without any difference other than the weight of the battery, which would be about the same weight as the dynamo.

Finally, most 5w dynamos and their compatible lights can provide enough power for riding on lit roads, but for cycling on unlit roads and cycle paths, they're not enough.

 

[Trek]

Hi Trek, where did you order it from? Volt don't seem to make it any more, at least I can't see it on their website.

Hi, ordered it direct off Volt web site, was in stock Volt Axis delivered within a week.

 

[J.B.]

I have kalkhoff as its in for repair i don't know what motor it has but its done 6500 miles. Its nexus 8. Never been happy with the hub. To take the wheel off removing the cable is reasonably easy, reasserting the cable is not. So I have marathon plus tyres and slime in the inner tubes. I wouldn't worry if its chain or belt. I just asked the bike shop to change the chain as its bit slack (no elliptical bottom bracket). I also have two ordinary bikes both travelmasters with Rohloffs, one belt one chain. I wouldn't rate one better than the other. Chain one has done 20,000 kilometres before I bought it and I have done at least 5,000k. Same chain but the bottom bracket is elliptical (you can tighten the chain by turning the bottom bracket).
Go for nexus 7 if its avaliable And if its easier to reassert. I have seen a 11 speed hub once on an ebike but along time ago. I had no problems with them.

 

[Croxden]

I would be very happy to make and sell solid 'plodders'.
the cost of producing a belt drive 3-speed hubgear is little more than a derailleur (about $50 a bike). I made one 3 years ago but it didn't sell well. My guess is people prefer to have 8-speed even if they rarely need more than 3.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/2017/zephyr-c/zephyr-c-1500.jpg

I decided on a GoCycle and that is only 3 speed. Then I looked at the cost of extras. £40.00 for one mudguard, so I've had a change of mind.
I liked this bike in the photo.

 

[Richard Newton]

After a few years off a bike, now looking for an ebike to aid my dodgy knees.
As per title, most bikes seem to have derailleurs, which I hate. Clunky, high maintenance, prone to damage, and just out of place on a high tech bike, rattling a chain around.
But it seems few manufacturers or customers agree, since there are so few hub geared especially with a belt.

As per title, Kalkhoff seem to be one of the few vendors, but they have a very confusing (to me) set of bikes with very similar specs seemingly sold by different bike shops, so hard to compare.

any other makes I should look at? Budget looks like it will need to be £3k.
TIA
Joe

Hi Joe or should I call you Electric
I've got a Kalkhoff Belt drive Enviolo "geared" e bike and it ticks all the boxes for me. To start with it's very new technology with the Enviolo syatem and very well put together. Mine is the Kalkhoff Endeavour 7b Advance belt drive e bike but there are models offered within your budget with belt drive by Kalkhoff. Just bear in mind that if you decide on belt drive then the machine you will eventually settle on will be hub gears of one sort or another because the belt drive cannot be used on a derailleur system of gears. I love mine and would recommend it to the end of the earth and back. It's reliable, easy to maintain, very well built and although expensive well worth every penny. You will hear a lot of guff about the Enviolo system, and that is just what it is guff. Too many people offer an opinion that they really are not qualified to give. You have a test ride on one and you'll see what I mean but do go a fair distance to give you time to sort out what you are doing with it.
If you ant to contact me directly just come back through the site and I'll give you chapter and verse on the bike.
Best of luck.

 

[GSV3MiaC]

Seconded .. I would have preferred the E14 Rohlhoff model, but my belt drive Enviolo performs flawlessly (so far) and the small efficiency loss in the gears is no big issue. Mine is a R&M model, but the belt drive and gears are the same. It does take a while to get used to the system, but being able to change thru (the equivalent of) a dozen gears with one twist of the wrist, even standing still, is joyous.

 

[vidtek]

I took the Woosh Sundowner out for a 22 mile ride yesterday & on my return there was one third battery left according to the meter so it looks like the battery isn't in too bad shape. After we stopped halfway I encountered an Error 23 which some quick Googling revealed could be a disconnected motor connection which indeed it was & I would have realised if I had looked at the front wheel. I must have caught the cable as I parked the bike.

The motor is definitely a bit less powerful than the XF07 on my hybrid but as long as I keep up momentum it's not an issue. On a couple of hills I was in first gear & maximum on the motor boost but at least I didn't have to get off & push It's no bad thing as it gives me a little more exercise. The throttle is handy for a speedy getaway when pulling out at road junctions. I have adjusted the handlebars so they are more upright & swept back. This is so much more comfortable & nicer for leisure cycling as you get to see the countryside instead of the road & avoids a crick in the neck.

It's good it worked out for you Nigel the Sundowner has a great riding position-don't forget your helmet though!

 

[Richard Newton]

Seconded .. I would have preferred the E14 Rohlhoff model, but my belt drive Enviolo performs flawlessly (so far) and the small efficiency loss in the gears is no big issue. Mine is a R&M model, but the belt drive and gears are the same. It does take a while to get used to the system, but being able to change thru (the equivalent of) a dozen gears with one twist of the wrist, even standing still, is joyous.

Amen to that bro. The stationary gear selection is something you take for granted but when compared to other systems it's nothing short of a revelation.
RichardN