Why doesn't Pedelecs do more E-Bike reviews?
- Thread starter E-Wheels
- Start date
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Can you believe any of them? Some people give good honest full reviews, others conveniently leave out or tone down negative factors. I know that there's people on this forum that are always extolling the virtues of their own bikes, but they forget to mention reasonably serious problems that they had, which the dealer sorted out.
Secondly, there's stooges on the forum masquerading as normal users, saying how great certain bikes are.
Another thing is that people are always talking about the bike without putting it in the context of the rider. "It flies up hills with no effort". Not surprising with a fit 7 stone rider - different story with a one legged 110 kg rider.
The same with range. Thats a completely personal thing and has little to do with the bike.
I thought one of the best things was when we had the Redbridge event. Pedelecs forum Admin asked various people to compare different bikes.
Secondly, there's stooges on the forum masquerading as normal users, saying how great certain bikes are.
Another thing is that people are always talking about the bike without putting it in the context of the rider. "It flies up hills with no effort". Not surprising with a fit 7 stone rider - different story with a one legged 110 kg rider.
The same with range. Thats a completely personal thing and has little to do with the bike.
I thought one of the best things was when we had the Redbridge event. Pedelecs forum Admin asked various people to compare different bikes.
Last edited by a moderator:
The problem that I find is that choice of bike is such a personal matter. Rather like choosing a car.
My first and main bike is a Tonaro crank driver. I detested the pedelec magnet ring so I removed it and it is throttle only now.
But oddly enough, when I bought my Woosh Gale folder (hub motor), I find that on that bike I prefer to use the pedelec magnet ring and not the throttle so much.
So, one person, two different bikes and two different preferences. I cannot explain why, just me I suppose.
As to the cycle parts, modern cheap derailleurs and brakes are a huge advance on what we had in the 1950s that I personally see no point in buying top of the range components. But there again, I only use my bikes for shopping and pleasure trips, no off road (except the Gale which I have ridden along beaches) so my demands on the components are far less that those of an e-MTB rider for instance.
My first and main bike is a Tonaro crank driver. I detested the pedelec magnet ring so I removed it and it is throttle only now.
But oddly enough, when I bought my Woosh Gale folder (hub motor), I find that on that bike I prefer to use the pedelec magnet ring and not the throttle so much.
So, one person, two different bikes and two different preferences. I cannot explain why, just me I suppose.
As to the cycle parts, modern cheap derailleurs and brakes are a huge advance on what we had in the 1950s that I personally see no point in buying top of the range components. But there again, I only use my bikes for shopping and pleasure trips, no off road (except the Gale which I have ridden along beaches) so my demands on the components are far less that those of an e-MTB rider for instance.
In the fairness of reference... @Gtech_David and @JuicyBike
To show how things can be twisted and manipulated to suit, you don't really need to go any further than this misleading head to head review by Juicy Bike, between the Gtech eBike City and the Juicy Sport Lite. This only came to light, whilst doing a bit of research on the Gtech range of bikes.
https://www.juicybike.co.uk/head-to-head-gtech
There are several discrepancies with this review and I might well add my own thoughts comparing the two bikes, but from sitting here having never seen or ridden either, the Juicy Spot Lite in no way can be compared to the Gtech eBike City. Chalk and cheese springs to mind.
Just to highlight a couple of points to begin with though.
Juicy state a range of 30miles and that a 36v 360wh battery is fitted as standard. This is not correct, as the OE bike spec for the Juicy Sport Lite is quoted as having a 20 mile range with a 36v 300wh battery. Options are then available over and above this spec. To achieve the quoted 30 mile range adds £99.00 to the bike cost, this in turn takes the quoted price of the bike from £985.00 up to £1,084.00 That in turn makes the Gtech £89.00 cheaper including delivery. Even if you added the Gtech optional mudguards and lights to the price of the Gtech, it is still £29.10 cheaper than the Juicy Sport Lite.
Next is bike weight. Juicy have quoted an overall weight of 23kg, which isn't so far off a third of a bag of cement heavier than the Gtech, but have then for some weird reason tried to compensate for this heavy weight, by quoting a stripped down weight of 19kg and claimed that "it’s clear that the difference is not as stark is it first appears". Conveniently Juicy have chosen not to deduct the battery weight from the Gtech. Vey misleading!
I find it weird that Juicy even chose to compare the two bikes at all, and have ticked what they see as negatives, where as in the probable design brief of the Gtech and to potential buyers, those negatives could easily be seen as a positive.
Just two examples are the gears and chain. Those could easily be considered a negative given the role that the Gtech is expected to perform.
For reference the Juicy Sport Lite can be found here. https://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/sport-lite
.
To show how things can be twisted and manipulated to suit, you don't really need to go any further than this misleading head to head review by Juicy Bike, between the Gtech eBike City and the Juicy Sport Lite. This only came to light, whilst doing a bit of research on the Gtech range of bikes.
https://www.juicybike.co.uk/head-to-head-gtech
There are several discrepancies with this review and I might well add my own thoughts comparing the two bikes, but from sitting here having never seen or ridden either, the Juicy Spot Lite in no way can be compared to the Gtech eBike City. Chalk and cheese springs to mind.
Just to highlight a couple of points to begin with though.
Juicy state a range of 30miles and that a 36v 360wh battery is fitted as standard. This is not correct, as the OE bike spec for the Juicy Sport Lite is quoted as having a 20 mile range with a 36v 300wh battery. Options are then available over and above this spec. To achieve the quoted 30 mile range adds £99.00 to the bike cost, this in turn takes the quoted price of the bike from £985.00 up to £1,084.00 That in turn makes the Gtech £89.00 cheaper including delivery. Even if you added the Gtech optional mudguards and lights to the price of the Gtech, it is still £29.10 cheaper than the Juicy Sport Lite.
Next is bike weight. Juicy have quoted an overall weight of 23kg, which isn't so far off a third of a bag of cement heavier than the Gtech, but have then for some weird reason tried to compensate for this heavy weight, by quoting a stripped down weight of 19kg and claimed that "it’s clear that the difference is not as stark is it first appears". Conveniently Juicy have chosen not to deduct the battery weight from the Gtech. Vey misleading!
I find it weird that Juicy even chose to compare the two bikes at all, and have ticked what they see as negatives, where as in the probable design brief of the Gtech and to potential buyers, those negatives could easily be seen as a positive.
Just two examples are the gears and chain. Those could easily be considered a negative given the role that the Gtech is expected to perform.
For reference the Juicy Sport Lite can be found here. https://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/sport-lite
.
Last edited:
I think you're right Eddie. The two bikes are Chalk and Cheese by comparison.
That article from last summer (when prices were very different) was firstly, tongue-in-cheek and secondly a response to so many requests from customers asking "how does it compare with the GTech?", brought about from a massive advertising campaign which did commendably raise the profile of electric bikes and lead to a large increase in enquiries in our physical shops.
It's not enough though to simply explain away the differences as Chalk and Cheese, when a real person is seriously enquiring about whether a bike will be a sensible purchase.
So we used a table of the features as the main basis for the comparison.
Perhaps we should have focused more on the ability of each bike in the hills.
Incidentally, it would be worth adding that right now, using the "Pedelecs" discount code at our website gives £100 off any of our upgraded bikes.
See this link
That article from last summer (when prices were very different) was firstly, tongue-in-cheek and secondly a response to so many requests from customers asking "how does it compare with the GTech?", brought about from a massive advertising campaign which did commendably raise the profile of electric bikes and lead to a large increase in enquiries in our physical shops.
It's not enough though to simply explain away the differences as Chalk and Cheese, when a real person is seriously enquiring about whether a bike will be a sensible purchase.
So we used a table of the features as the main basis for the comparison.
Perhaps we should have focused more on the ability of each bike in the hills.
Incidentally, it would be worth adding that right now, using the "Pedelecs" discount code at our website gives £100 off any of our upgraded bikes.
See this link
Last edited:
Hi everyone,
Do you think a standardized table on this pedelecs forum would help comparisons?
electrical components:
1) Motor: (make and model),
2) battery: (capacity in WH, cell model, charging time, has it got remote diagnostic facility?)
3) power control: (torque, rotational or both, has it got legal throttle)
4) cabling: (has it got modular cabling, is it user serviceable)
Mechanical components:
1) dimensions: (L, H, W, wheel size)
2) weight: (as configured, stripped of accessories: without frame lock, pedals, rack, mudguards and lights)
3) frame: (material, is it hydroformed? has it got smooth welding?)
4) frame size: (as measured from bottom bracket to top of seat tube)
5) fork: (fork type and model)
6) gears: (bottom bracket type, crankset model, number of teeth, derailleur model, chain model)
7) brakes: (front and rear, model)
8) rims: (size, material, type, model)
9) tyres: (size, material, type, model)
10) seat post: (size, material, type, model)
11) saddle: (material, type, model)
Do you think a standardized table on this pedelecs forum would help comparisons?
electrical components:
1) Motor: (make and model),
2) battery: (capacity in WH, cell model, charging time, has it got remote diagnostic facility?)
3) power control: (torque, rotational or both, has it got legal throttle)
4) cabling: (has it got modular cabling, is it user serviceable)
Mechanical components:
1) dimensions: (L, H, W, wheel size)
2) weight: (as configured, stripped of accessories: without frame lock, pedals, rack, mudguards and lights)
3) frame: (material, is it hydroformed? has it got smooth welding?)
4) frame size: (as measured from bottom bracket to top of seat tube)
5) fork: (fork type and model)
6) gears: (bottom bracket type, crankset model, number of teeth, derailleur model, chain model)
7) brakes: (front and rear, model)
8) rims: (size, material, type, model)
9) tyres: (size, material, type, model)
10) seat post: (size, material, type, model)
11) saddle: (material, type, model)
Why would you weigh a bike without some of its parts??
Initially I worried a lot about keeping the weight down, my first bike was only 20.5 kg and I know that it is easier to chuck around on the road. Number Two is much heavier (someone nicked the bathroom scales so can't put a number to it) and I have adopted my riding accordingly concentrating on getting from A to B in comfort. Why would you weigh a pedelec? We know that a pedelec is going to be much heavier than a bike.
- almost all pedelecs now on the market are between 20 and 25 kg.
- a 5 kg advantage is important if you are going to be racing, not many pedelecs are used for racing...
- the exception to the above is folding bikes which need to be light enough to be lifted into cars/trains/houses/...
- another special case is the fast commuter where the motor is only used off the line and to help on hills, all other riding is done beyond the cutoff
We often read in these pages "I need it to be light enough to carry up the stairs of my flat/house every day". A full sized pedelec is never going to be adapted for that, you really need secure parking elsewhere than upstairs. On the odd occasion I carry my bike up the three flights of my old, narrow, wooden staircase for maintenance/repairs but, when I can, I prefer to do this work on my GF's patio. It weighs about 3 kg more than when it didn't have a motor on so it is doable but it isn't much fun, mostly because of the size, not the weight.
A commuter should be weighed fully equipped, what is the use of knowing its weight without everyday stuff on the bike? Also one should take into account the weight and distribution of cargo, I much prefer nothing on the bike and everything in the trailer.
That's my couple of 0.01€
- almost all pedelecs now on the market are between 20 and 25 kg.
- a 5 kg advantage is important if you are going to be racing, not many pedelecs are used for racing...
- the exception to the above is folding bikes which need to be light enough to be lifted into cars/trains/houses/...
- another special case is the fast commuter where the motor is only used off the line and to help on hills, all other riding is done beyond the cutoff
We often read in these pages "I need it to be light enough to carry up the stairs of my flat/house every day". A full sized pedelec is never going to be adapted for that, you really need secure parking elsewhere than upstairs. On the odd occasion I carry my bike up the three flights of my old, narrow, wooden staircase for maintenance/repairs but, when I can, I prefer to do this work on my GF's patio. It weighs about 3 kg more than when it didn't have a motor on so it is doable but it isn't much fun, mostly because of the size, not the weight.
A commuter should be weighed fully equipped, what is the use of knowing its weight without everyday stuff on the bike? Also one should take into account the weight and distribution of cargo, I much prefer nothing on the bike and everything in the trailer.
That's my couple of 0.01€
For a fairer comparison.
A lot of our customers like well padded, well sprung comfy saddles.
Some weigh about 1kg more than others.
Add a pair of large pedals, a solid propstand, front and rear light with their batteries, full size mudguards, full size chainguard and a frame lock.
Changing saddle, saddle post, pedals and removing non-essential accessories will lighten most of my bikes about 3kgs.
Yes, I too agree. But I think many would accept that any individual reviewing their own ebike would understandably be positively biased towards it (unless - despite having weighed up their own needs and then parted with their own hard-earned cash - the bike then turned out to be a real dog). And with editorial "magazine/web" type reviews, despite usually trying to be more objective/subjective, you soon get the measure of the editor/reviewers' own preferences and bear that in mind when reading.
I very much like and appreciate the effort of the Electric Bike (EBR) video reviews... even though the bikes are American models, and the equivalent European versions are altered in some way, it's a very good measure for newbies of what a bike is about and what it's capabilities are. He did a recent review of a Voltron, and then went on to do a separate in depth video review of the Bafang Max Drive that bike uses... relating it to his experiences with Bosch and other comparable/alternative drives. How else is a newcomer going to get exposure and gain an understanding of such things without reviews (despite there maybe being some bias?). We don't all have the depth of knowledge as clearly many experienced ebike riders on this forum do (and that experience of fellow contributors also makes this site a great place to be).
I'd like to see more reviews here... whatever the authors bias (and if we knew what bikes these authors were themselves riding, their approx. weight and the bikes main use, that might help the reader too).
Yes, but then you'd also have to state the weight of all the different size options. Its a nonsense.
State the weight of the bike sold, so a customer knows what they are buying. You don't state the price with the mudguards off etc etc. So why state the weight un complete.
Then customers can see if they think the extra weight / price of the accessories is worth it.
I added the stripped down weight after reading EddiePJ's post about comparisons.
Should we have more openness about bike component specifications?
I thought it can only be a good thing.
Should we have more openness about bike component specifications?
I thought it can only be a good thing.
Weight's an issue for people powered bikes, because of that fact alone. 
Ebikes, in my opinion, should be comfortable and have a reasonable range.
Looks are subjective and down to individual choice.
If weight was important, stripping down parts and accessories would be doubly so, in trying to achieve that. Weight's not important, strength is.
Ebikes, in my opinion, should be comfortable and have a reasonable range.
Looks are subjective and down to individual choice.
If weight was important, stripping down parts and accessories would be doubly so, in trying to achieve that. Weight's not important, strength is.
It isn't easy being a retailer! Whether to quote "up to" ranges, stripping off all accessories before weighing a bike, even how best to present colour to a distant customer, are all decisions taken during marketing any bike. And as you drill down into the small print other factors, such as when a battery is considered depleted have to be presented and then weighed by any potential customer. Rarely is there a product as complicated and variable as an ebike.
But as purchasing decisions become mainly informed by web analysis, customers are becoming strongly influenced by claims that can be spurious, and there is a massive responsibility on any site that makes a claim to be unbiased.
And a similar level of responsibility for the retailers and manufacturers of course.
Really the limitations of reviews on any site require that any purchaser take a test ride. Especially in a field that includes numerous small indie brands that have to survive the marketing influence of the bigger boys.
But as purchasing decisions become mainly informed by web analysis, customers are becoming strongly influenced by claims that can be spurious, and there is a massive responsibility on any site that makes a claim to be unbiased.
And a similar level of responsibility for the retailers and manufacturers of course.
Really the limitations of reviews on any site require that any purchaser take a test ride. Especially in a field that includes numerous small indie brands that have to survive the marketing influence of the bigger boys.
I'm all for a standardized table of spec for all bikes, as it would have saved having to pull Zak of Byocycles up, as I did here in this thread. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/prototype-ex-demo-ex-display-end-of-season-sale.26217/page-3#post-345344
I don't see the need for stripped down weight though, as any quoted weight should be for the bike as supplied/being marketed.
Juicy Bike, I don't take or see your comment as being "tongue-in-cheek" at all. You are simply trying to put down a competitors product by using misleading information for your own gain, and it is certainly not a professional way of conducting business.
I'm sure that if other companies started to do the same against your products, that you wouldn't see it as being tongue in cheek light hearted fun.
.
Last edited:
Last edited:
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
