Woosh Whoosh XF kit general advice + cadence vs torque sensor

[stargazer30]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the long post, I'm after advice after doing lots of research and confusing myself on these ebike kits! A bit of background info first to describe the problem/advice needed.

Bike 1 is a Gtech Sport ebike.
Bike 2 is a regular bike, GT avalanche MTB 29r which I plan to convert with a whoosh kit. I have already done a mild hybrid conversion on it. Road friendly 2" tyres, larger front chain ring.

The gtech is the best £500 I ever spent, I put front suspension on it, bought a 2nd battery and was originally just going to just sell the GT MTB. However the Gtech has some problems I want to avoid with this planned conversion on the MTB;

• Rim brakes and the basic sprung forks, my GT has much better components, hydraulic brakes, air forks, internal cables etc...
• Small 200wh battery, I have a spare but carrying it can be a pain
• The big one, no gears + the 2 speed assist setup it has. To be fair its not an issue if you leave it on max and just want to get from A to B, but for me the bike is not a commuter, I want to get some exercise on it and this is where is goes south. On Eco with the fixed speed I can't climb banks as the cadence is too low and I blow out my knees. On Max I can do a 20+ mile ride and not even break a sweat, if I want a work out I need to "look" for hills to overpower the motor at around 12mph when its in its good cadence range. The mode switch is on the battery so you cant easily switch mid ride.

Flip side when I ride my MTB its the opposite extreme, 6 mile ride and I'm knackered and the next day it really sets my sciatica off. Where I live isn't exactly hilly but we are pretty high up so whichever way you go, if my legs tire on the ride out getting home is a killer.

I am thinking that the XF08 kit with a 700c rear wheel/cassette mount will be best for the conversion. I don't want a throttle or brake sensors, I want the install to look as tidy as possible. However I can't decide between the torque crank and the regular cadence sensor. I don't really want a mid drive motor eating my chain and gears.

I like the idea of the crank with the torque sensor so I can get some exercise, my GT is a 1x11 drive with a square taper BB so it should fit.
Problems with this route;

• I can't find much info on torque crank sensors with hub drives? They all seem to be mid motors.
• I have a 38T front ring on the bike currently which is plenty fast enough, but this kit has a 44T ring so my chain will not be long enough (the rear cassette is a 11-44)
• It looks like a regular chain ring? 1x systems need a narrow wide ring, so not sure this is gonna work, dropped chains?

If I go the Cadence sensor route I am thinking it will be similar problem to my gtech, in that its either on or off and peddling harder or easier has no impact at all unless you are above the cut off speed or the motor lacks the power needed on a steepish hill. I have no experience of the whoosh kits though, maybe the controller is smarter?

David

 

[Woosh]

I want the install to look as tidy as possible.

If you choose a cadence hub kit, you can choose the LCD only option and save £15 on unneeded components (sensored brake levers and throttle).
The normal loom is replaced by the thin LCD cable.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-display-only/display-only-option-for-hub-kits

If you choose the torque sensor kit, it comes with just the LCD cable, no loom, no throttle, no brake sensors.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-223-xf08c-ts15ahrack/xf08c-ts-rear-hub-kit-26700c-with-15ah-rack-battery

It looks like a regular chain ring? 1x systems need a narrow wide ring, so not sure this is gonna work, dropped chains?

That may be a problem. The TSKIT works with 10-speed chains but I haven't tried it with 11-speed chain. This problem is not there with cadence sensor.

 

[stargazer30]

That may be a problem. The TSKIT works with 10-speed chains but I haven't tried it with 11-speed chain. This problem is not there with cadence sensor.

Can the chain ring be changed on the torque crank so I can fit a narrow wide 38t or will it mess up all the sensor readings? If it can’t be changed I guess I can try it and worst case swap out the rear cassette and chain for a 10 speed? Or would that mean new shifters and clutch rear mech too?

 

[Audio2]

I can’t answer your chain question, but our rolhoff bikes had 34 teeth chainrings. With the motor my wife have not found any hills locally need gears that low. So far including a couple of long 1 in 6 hills.

 

[Audio2]

You may find my initial thoughts on the woosh XF07 torque vending kit of use. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/woosh-xf07-torque-sensing-kits.38715/

 

[vfr400]

It's a shame that Woosh don't do current control (torque simulation) controllers. I keep telling them but they don't listen. Curent control gives you the possibility to pedal,as hard or easy as you want at any time with a cadence sensor, which is what you're asking for. IMHO, it's the most useful system out of all of them for commuting and generally riding around. Most people don't understand how advantageous it is until they've used it for some time. Every system has advantages in particular situations, but current control with a cadence sensor definitely wins for commuting and touring.

 

[stargazer30]

I can’t answer your chain question, but our rolhoff bikes had 34 teeth chainrings. With the motor my wife have not found any hills locally need gears that low. So far including a couple of long 1 in 6 hills.

My GT actually came with a 30T front ring. I mean I know its a MTB but it was bonkers, on the 44T rear cog even spinning the pedals as fast a humanly possible you were going so slow you'd fall off! GT must have designed it to climb mount everest. The 38T front is a nice size, you can pedal up to 27mph in top gear and on the big 44T rear it'll only do about 4mph but it'll climb anything. Still it would be great to whoosh-a-fi it so I can go up hills at a half decent pace.

 

[vfr400]

My GT actually came with a 30T front ring. I mean I know its a MTB but it was bonkers, on the 44T rear cog even spinning the pedals as fast a humanly possible you were going so slow you'd fall off! GT must have designed it to climb mount everest. The 38T front is a nice size, you can pedal up to 27mph in top gear and on the big 44T rear it'll only do about 4mph but it'll climb anything. Still it would be great to whoosh-a-fi it so I can go up hills at a half decent pace.

You need different gearing when you electrify. 44T chainring is more like it for 15.5 mph assistance and 48T if you derestrict. A 34T/48T double ring is handy if you want to ride without power. I have a 48T/34T double on my bike, and I never have to use the 34T when I have my motor switched on during my rides that are very hilly, and I'm 68 years old.

 

[Woosh]

we are out of Caminos...
Also out of kits except BBS01.
Lishui quoted 6 weeks lead time.
Containers are delayed in Ningbo, delayed in Felixstowe...

 

[vfr400]

we are out of Caminos...
Also out of kits except BBS01.
Lishui quoted 6 weeks lead time.
Containers are delayed in Ningbo, delayed in Felixstowe...

It sounds like you'll be having a good Xmas party this year.

 

[Woosh]

no. Covid put paid to that.
All the new 'Covid effect' orders that I placed since April won't arrive before Christmas so did not benefit from Covid effect as much as it could have been if deliveries had been on schedule.
All my projects are getting nowhere because Chinese factories don't want more orders.
No new frames.
We are also constantly in lockdown because of our age group. Customers are told by Hatti to wait outside, in the street.

 

[stargazer30]

we are out of Caminos...
Also out of kits except BBS01.
Lishui quoted 6 weeks lead time.
Containers are delayed in Ningbo, delayed in Felixstowe...

I’m in no hurry. I have my gtech to keep my going until I can get the kit for my gt or replace both with a new bike.

 

[stargazer30]

Whoosh sorry another question. If I get the kit with the torque crank and I can’t make it work with my group set, is it just a case of fitting a cadence sensor instead and putting my old crank on? (no throttle, just the lcd in my plan anyway)

I think I can make it work now by putting a 10speed 11-34 cassette on the new hub wheel. it should still work with my 11 speed chain, mech and shifter. Saves me swapping the old cassette over and it also solves the chain length problem as no more massive 42t rear ring.

 

[Woosh]

f I get the kit with the torque crank and I can’t make it work with my group set, is it just a case of fitting a cadence sensor instead and putting my old crank on?

The controller on the TSKIT is part of the crankset.

If you decide (theoretically) to change from TSKIT with a downtube HL battery to cadence sensor kit re-using the wheel and battery, you'll have to:

1) replace the battery base with a new one which has the controller for the cadence sensor kit.
2) fit the pedal sensor that comes with the cadence sensor kit.
3) refit your old crankset

The wiring remains same.
Extra cost: about £65.

 

[stargazer30]

Might need to use a mid drive kit after all, turns out the rear disc is a centre lock mount too arghhh :-(
Anyway I've sent you am email with a bunch of pictures, measurements etc.. so you can do an assessment.

 

[Woosh]

a new rotor costs about £10.