Whoosh bikes and the law

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

There is a very practical point guys....these bikes don't have a date stamp...there are thousands of e-bikes in use legally with throttles....do you seriously think that the police are going to do a timeline on every bike that has a throttle,firstly to determine the way the throttle works and then the age of the production of the bike.
No.

don't grandfather rights work the otherway round though?

So in the case of a bike with a throttle being involved in an accident, wouldn't the rider have to prove they have the rights, not the other way round? They aren't automatically given.

So if you bought a bike that is essentially illegal, you'd not have a way of proving you were covered by the rights if it was ever investigated, would you?

 

[trex]

Col, the way you phrase the previous post appears to imply that twist and go throttle is simply illegal. I don't know if you have read the whole thread, but the DfT have recognized their benefit and not shown any intention to make them illegal, only require that they be type approved.
The way I read it, if the bike is TA'ed before 1/1/2018 then the bike with twist and go is treated exactly like any other EAPC. There won't be any need to invoke grand fathers rights. The reason for the DfT to give 1/1/2018 as the new deadline is to allow enough time for testing facilities to be set up. Until then, I assume that the police will continue to ignore the twist and go throttle.

 

[anotherkiwi]

You have quoted from the test proceedures of EN15194 EPAC standards.

Before the bicycle can be classified as an EPAC it has to pass the Framework Regulation 168/2013 exemption rule 2(h) defined above and repeated below which does not allow the above hence my belief that only a change in the Framework Regulation can solve this impasse.

(h) pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h;

But with a start up assist "button" you must be pedalling for it to work. The German law is the clearest on this with start up assist to 6 km/h for pedelecs and 20 km/h for s-pedelecs. Walk along mode gives 6 km/h without pedalling but as it only provides about 40 W (in my case) the bike won't move, or barely, with a rider on it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

To be complete, my controller (common Chinese) has modes for start up assist in the advanced parameter settings where a throttle only works if you are pedalling i.e. PAS has detected it. Then the throttle gives 100% power up to the legal cut off speed of 6 km/h (in reality defined by the user so could be 25 km/h) for start up assist mode. The Chinese have read the law and implemented it but these functions are often disabled by default by the kit importer (in my case Cyclotek).

 

[Kudoscycles]

So the poor old police now have to determine whether the e-bike they have stopped is it legal or illegal,your local bobbie has to determine...
1. Is it an S-class bike?
2. Does it have a motor with a nominal rating above 250 watts?
3. Is it fitted with a speed cheating dongle?
4. Does the power cutoff at 15,5 mph?
6. Does the throttle operate above 4 mph ?
7. Does the throttle operate above 4 mph when the pedals are turning?
8. Was the bike manufactured before 1/1/2018?
9. Is the bike entitled to throttle grandfather rights?
And so on......
Understand I am against all illegals but you cannot expect to send every bobbie back to police college just to learn about the legalities of e-bikes.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

Slow day, fine quota not met, they will find something...

 

[the_killjoy]

Oh you cynic.

 

[anotherkiwi]

realist sir!

 

[flecc]

Understand I am against all illegals but you cannot expect to send every bobbie back to police college just to learn about the legalities of e-bikes.
KudosDave

In practice the only officers who deal with pedelecs are the traffic division ones, usually following an accident.

The average bobby couldn't care less. Since all parking duties were removed from police responsibility long ago they see such things as beneath them.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

To place a EPAC on the market it must obey exemption 2(h) i.e. no independent throttle, if it doesn't then it will be classified as a motor vehicle and the entire supply chain will now be liable under 168/2013.
The member states also have new responsibilities to ensure any breeches are monitored and reported to the EU and instruct their allocated enforcement bodies to uphold the Regulations.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Col, the way you phrase the previous post appears to imply that twist and go throttle is simply illegal. I don't know if you have read the whole thread, but the DfT have recognized their benefit and not shown any intention to make them illegal, only require that they be type approved.
The way I read it, if the bike is TA'ed before 1/1/2018 then the bike with twist and go is treated exactly like any other EAPC. There won't be any need to invoke grand fathers rights. The reason for the DfT to give 1/1/2018 as the new deadline is to allow enough time for testing facilities to be set up. Until then, I assume that the police will continue to ignore the twist and go throttle.

Yes, sorry was assuming that Type Approval hadn't been gained, I assumed this for 2 reasons, 1) its impossible to get currently, and 2) I suspect lots of people won't bother.

 

[trex]

Col, most of woosh's customers are elderly, so it's important for them to get TA for their Petite and Gale.

 

[gray198]

I think that as usual they are making a mountain out of a molehill. What difference does it make if the throttle takes you to 15mphbas opposed to pedalling. In my ( limited ) experience the throttle can be slower. Having said that I only use mine for sometimes starting off where it is on a slight gradient, probably safer in a traffic environment. Maybe it will also come in useful for someone who may be tired at the end of a ride.

gray