Who knows where the throttle goes?

[homemoz]

So, yesterday was a bright sunny day and my wife's first try out of the MU P8 conversion (CH White & son). The verdict - "Nice bike, shame about the throttle." Her feeling is that the throttle rotates the wrong way, hence putting strain on the wrist joint. On the Mu the throttle rotates towards the rider, hence flexing the wrist joint. The argument is that if it is rotated away, then the wrist would be extended and the position more ergonomically sound.

What are other members views? Is it better to have a throttle that rotates away from the rider & which is the usual setup? In our case this would mean switching the throttle to the left side and the gears back to the right. Is it worth the hassle? Also, I suspect our aching wrist problems are made worse by the throttle being a partial grip and not full-size. Does anyone know whether it is possible to fit a replacement throttle which is easier to use - if so, where from? it seems a shame that a really decent bike is spoilt by such a small thing.

Last but not least has anyone have experience of the urban mover UM 24 folder? We would like a second folder for my wife to use, but it would need preferably to have both pedelec and throttle options (or pedelec only) and a decent range. The Quando 11 would have been ideal but is only throttle operated, I think. Unfortunately, we need folders due to lack of storage space - no garage & no room for an outside store. I'm put off the Synergie due to the very low gearing and and think the same would hold true for others of the same type.

All advice appreciated.

 

[flecc]

The Quando II has a pedelec mode, but the throttle still has to opened for power in that mode.

The worldwide standard for throttle opening is the top of the throttle twisting towards the rider, and I would hate it the other way, twisting the wrist the other way is far less natural I think.

Also, having a throttle different from standard is potentially dangerous for an experienced rider who will react automatically in the standard twist direction.
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[homemoz]

Thanks Flecc. I know that AtoB magazine - switched the throttle round on their brompton test, but can see the problem with an instinctive response. When you say that the the Quando has a pedelec mode but the throttle needs to be open - doesn't that defeat the purpose? Wouldn't it be just as easy to use the throttle per se?

 

[flecc]

Yes it would in a sense, but there's two reasons for that setup on the Quando, which also has a throttle only mode.

First there's the pedelec incorporated so that it can be sold in continental Europe where pedelec has to be used.

Second is the problem of the power and acceleration of the Quando, which is way above average for e-bikes. If one was on full power pedelec only, it could be dangerous in confined conditions such as dense traffic. A press on the pedal and it can shoot off the mark in a disconcerting way when the throttle is fully open, so the throttle wired in line keeps that under control.

In some respects it's not an entirely satisfactory arrangement, but no-one has yet devised a smooth control of power from the pedal pressure on wheel hub-motor bikes, so this is a compromise for a high powered bike.
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[Beeping-Sleauty]

Throttle swap

So, yesterday was a bright sunny day and my wife's first try out of the MU P8 conversion (CH White & son). The verdict - "Nice bike, shame about the throttle." Her feeling is that the throttle rotates the wrong way, hence putting strain on the wrist joint. On the Mu the throttle rotates towards the rider, hence flexing the wrist joint. The argument is that if it is rotated away, then the wrist would be extended and the position more ergonomically sound.

What are other members views? Is it better to have a throttle that rotates away from the rider & which is the usual setup? In our case this would mean switching the throttle to the left side and the gears back to the right. Is it worth the hassle? Also, I suspect our aching wrist problems are made worse by the throttle being a partial grip and not full-size. Does anyone know whether it is possible to fit a replacement throttle which is easier to use - if so, where from? it seems a shame that a really decent bike is spoilt by such a small thing.All advice appreciated.

Having moved my throttle from the right hand, which rolled inward toward me per 'standard practice' over to the left hand, i find this is more comfortable & creates less fatigue, the other plus is that it is then possible to still have control of the throttle whilst indicating to turn right.

having the gears reversed takes a few days to re-learn, but after getting used to them, i found this was also more comfortable as the gears need more strength to control and being right handed, this suited me.

alternatively, there full length throttles available, think this is one:

Electric bike twistgrip throttle. on eBay, also Other Bike Parts, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 15-Apr-08 16:07:50 BST)

also i added a cable tie to the partial throttle, this allows me finer control with my index finger & thumb and allows fingertip lock to hold the throttle on.

hope this helps,
beeps

 

[flecc]

The braking aspect is worth bearing in mind.

Throttles evolved the way they are so that when braking is needed, shutting the throttle rolls the fingers towards the brake lever, not away from it which would be illogical and delay braking.

The alternative with a contra-rotating throttle of letting go to allow the throttle to spring back while reaching for the lever is not really what one wants to do in an emergency braking situation when instinct is to hold onto the bars.

Of course some e-bike brakes have brake lever cutouts, but many don't, motorcycles don't, and lever cutouts fail anyway. Two of the four on my bikes don't cut power any more, so they aren't entirely dependable.
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[Ian]

This is the throttle on my Ezee Torq. Originally a full length twistgrip it was modified using inspiration from Fleccs Torq site and combined with ergonomic grips (which do not twist), in addition the return spring was weakened by simply drilling a new hole for one end to locate in. As can be seen the natural way to operate it is between thumb and forefinger although due to the weak return spring it is easy and comfortable to operate with the thumb alone. Alternatively it can be held in a fixed position by moving the hand slightly to the right so that the palm grips both the fixed and rotating portions as one. Unlike with a full length twistgrip the wrist plays no part in its operation so does not become fatigued.

 

[barnabear]

Homemoz, you still want ownership experiences of UM24?

 

[pwylie]

Homemz, I have just taken delivery of a retrofit Heinzmann with the throttle forward to spped up set up you describe.

Having never had a motor bike I have not found it a problem - have done abot 50 miles so far. One observation is that if you ride with thottle most of the time open you can put a lot of pressure on the throttle mech & your wrist. I had to re-fix the thottle which slipped because of this.

 

[homemoz]

Hi barnabear,
If you have experience of this bike, I would be interested. We had been looking a second electric folder for my wife. She is adamant that it is pedelec and not reliant solely on throttle control. Not sure now whether it is just better to buy a decent full size bike.

 

[barnabear]

Hi homemoz,

Generally I have been happy with my UM24, but with some issues.

I have the LiPol battery and I now do an 8 mile journey to work with about 660 ft of hill climbs (and corresponding 540 ft of descents) in about 38 minutes. This was a journey that used to take me about 55 minutes at best on an ordinary bike as I was not able to keep going on some of the hills. I also arrive in better condition.

Given my weight and the hills, I find that the range with LiPol is only about 12 miles so I'm really glad that I upgraded to LiPol rather than the then standard NiMH battery.

I keep a spare charger at work, so the battery recharges at my desk in about four and a half hours ready for my journey home.

So the UM24 has allowed me to cycle to work on a regular basis whereas it was not a pratical alternative for me on a conventional bike. However there are other bikes around which would also have satisfied that requirement.

The UM24 is a folder, which is comparatively rare for an electric bike and it's quite quick to fold up. However it doesn't fold particularly small - I think the wheelbase is quite long.

The flip side of that is that the UM24 is very stable for a folding bike. In fact I compared it with one of the larger wheeled UM's and I preferred the ride of the folder. I didn't like the handlebar style of the larger UM's, the UM24 having a much straighter handlebar. The stability of the UM24 makes for a relaxed ride - I tried a conventional folding Dahon once and it was very hard work as it seemed pretty unstable.

The gearing is stupidly short - my legs twiddling round and round without actually doing any useful work. So I tend to use the twist throttle on the flat and downhill, but pedal hard on the uphill sections.

The front brake is pretty jerky - like the rim is not particularly smooth.

I had a very long wait between ordering and receiving the UM24 due to the lack of availability of the LiPol battery.

Customer support from Urban Mover is notoriously poor. I have an ongoing issue with spoke failures in the rear wheel - that's the main problem. I don't feel that UM have taken ownership of the problem. Provided you are well below the maximum load of 90 kg spoke failures may not be a problem for you.

The UM24 standard equipment seemed to change. It now comes with the Torque Sensing cranks/chainwheel and the rear wheel lock as standard but without the handlebar throttle control. My dealer was somewhat horrified and basically told UM that he wouldn't be able to sell bikes without the throttle control (much of his clientel are elderly not able to pedal effectively). So they supplied the parts for him to retrofit which he did for free. So I got the best of both worlds. Check the standard equipment configuration before making a buying decision.

Spares are generally hard to obtain, there was a problem with the spring loaded battery contacts on the bike. I took the bike in for repair and the dealer only managed to get replacement because a new bike arrived damaged so he cannabalised it. Similarly this was how he got me the spare charger the same way. It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.

The throttle control on the handlebar has a 3 second delay which many find annoying. This is true across the UM range. The throttle control is also quite stiff.

There have been times when the motor has cut out (no assistance) for periods of say 10-20 seconds. It's a real weird, but using the twist throttle seems to reset the problem state. Don't understand it, but other people have experienced this across the UM range. Happens maybe on average once every 30-50 miles.

The bike is really really useful for my 2 mile journey into the centre of town to go shopping. It takes me about 10 minutes, and parking is free and very easy.

So a range of technical issues - it's a brilliant concept and generally well engineered but with some technical flaws.

Not sure I would buy a UM24 again, mainly because of the issue with the spokes and the lack of effective customer support. It is useful that it folds as if I ride it to work and then it's raining when it's time to go home I can take the bus instead then drive in the following day and put it in the boot of the car.

So a bit of a mixed bag. I love it when it works, but am frustrated by reliability issues particularly the spoke failures.

I may be looking for a replacement bike in April 2009 under the Cycle 2 Work scheme. Having proved the concept, I may be investing say £1,500 in a Kalkhoff or similar.

 

[homemoz]

Thanks barnabear.
We have also joined the cycle to work scheme and I was thinking of getting a bike which would double up as an occasional leisure bike for my wife to use. The thing that I would find difficult with the UM 24 is the low gears, which is a problem in most of the electric folders on sale. I am fairly fit and like to peddle with some powered assistance, rather than the bike do all the work. I could see this being more of a problem if the UM range now come without a throttle option.

On balance my current thinking is to convert a Dahon folder using a suitable kit to get a bike with a good range of gears - rather like the Dahon MU P8 conversion that we already have but as a pedelec rather than throttle only (not through the cycle to work scheme) or get either the Halfords Carrera Sparc or Powacycle Salisbury as a general workhorse.

Would you consider posting a review on the forum - the information would be really useful to anyone else thinking of buying a UM 24 and decent reviews are really hard to come by?

 

[frank9755]

The braking aspect is worth bearing in mind.

Throttles evolved the way they are so that when braking is needed, shutting the throttle rolls the fingers towards the brake lever, not away from it which would be illogical and delay braking.

.

Good point.

I had been passively wondering which way round a thumb throttle should go, since fitting one to my Tongxin motor bike 6 months ago. That bike had twist gear shifters (which I prefer) so a thumb throttle was needed. I fitted it so it twisted the same way as a normal throttle - push down/towards you to go - but kept thinking that it might be more comfortable the other way round. However having read this I think I was right to put it that way, as I wouldn't want to catch it while going for the brake.