Whisper UK customer serveice

[jimmyengland1000]

Understood Frank.

To me almost the whole e-bike market seems to be a little bit sloppy in many areas, just a reflection of the small size of the operations in most cases I feel.
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Also, I think that any new technology can attract fly-by-nights and people who are just in it to make a quick buck and move on. Things can become the rage for a while, with any old loser flogging them and then disappearing. The unfortunate thing is that the piece of technology suffers in reputation and becomes synonymous with conmen. Usually, after a while, only reputable and decent sellers stay in the business and then it stabilises into something more respectable.

At the moment, my own view of the e-bike market is that it's a minefield for the purchaser with bikes of dubious quality, exaggerated claims of mileage and power, retailers who flout the UK trading laws, quibbles and equivocation about guarantees, misleading and incorrect information being bandied about in order to evade responsibility, inflated selling prices and people who are impolite and rude to purchasers and potential buyers.

I believe that things will change and that there is a niche here for someone who knows how to talk to people (ie with honesty regarding the product, delivery time and performance) and who is genuinely customer-focussed and in it for the long-term. In fact, I may have some news to post on this site in a few months regarding this (no, it's not me...)

 

[Cyclezee]

100% agreed John,
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WOW. ..just goes to show the power and enthusiasm of electric bikes when even in adversity of mechanical failures/warranty issues and other such topics it can bring two arch rivals.. together...in full agreement....
who needs pot lol....

I don't know what medication you are on Keith, but I would check that you are taking the correct doseage!
I am not and never could be a rival to Flecc. The fact is, I agree with 99% of Flecc's opinions and comment.
However I just can't resist a childish tendancy to play Devil's Advocate occasionally.

John

 

[flecc]

By the way, I've heard that an e-bike is sold at £225 in China (to importers here), so, if manufacturers are operating at 100% park-up, we are looking at a production cost of £112 or so. Then there is shipping to here, import duties and VAT payable on the total.

The manufacturer markups in China are generally very much lower than that, sometimes a source of resentment against their importers in fact. Of course there can be the odd exception.
.

 

[flecc]

100% agreed John,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW. ..just goes to show the power and enthusiasm of electric bikes when even in adversity of mechanical failures/warranty issues and other such topics it can bring two arch rivals.. together...in full agreement....
who needs pot lol....

John and I are certainly not arch-rivals Keith, I think we understand each other perfectly. We have never been in disagreement about good customer service, only about the customer's part in that in some respects, and the way customers behave in respect of retailers behaviour.
.

 

[flecc]

How can you be sympathetic to Whisper UK

I believe normally the correct route would be through the German Supplier,

Rob

Question and answer Rob. Thank you.
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[rob]

Also, I think that any new technology can
At the moment, my own view of the e-bike market is that it's a minefield for the purchaser with bikes of dubious quality, exaggerated claims of mileage and power, retailers who flout the UK trading laws, quibbles and equivocation about guarantees, misleading and incorrect information being bandied about in order to evade responsibility, inflated selling prices and people who are impolite and rude to purchasers and potential buyers.
QUOTE]

Well said, your 100% right.

With regard to Whisper UK, I've been frustrated at the non-existent customer relations, the lack of information and back up. When all the time they all new about the fault on these bikes.

It's a shame as the bikes are good, once the wiring fault is corrected. If they had the right client friendly approach and customer relations they could do well.

I would have took your advice, fixed the fault myself and enjoyed riding the bike. But after receiving an extremely rude e-mail from David Miall, I feel determined to make an issue and pursue this all the way.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Warantees

Hi Guys

I really do not want to get into any sort of slogging match here, they don't do anyone any good and put manufacturers off becoming involved in the Forum......... as you will all have noticed.

The warrantee issue is clear, any bike bought from Germany should have a warrantee issued from the supplier i.e. E-Wheels Germany. As Flecc most eloquently pointed out the the profits in this case are with Germany and it is within our agreement with them that they will deal with their own customers. How could we possibly be expected to deal with all the queries from all Wisper customers all over the word? This is why we have dealers.

However in the case of these few German bikes we have agreed with Frank owner of E-Wheels Germany that we will help his customers as a goodwill gesture and not under his warrantee.

As mentioned earlier, I will not get into unproductive fights with people like Rob on the Forum. Rob incidentally threatened that if we did not do everything he asked for he would discredit us on Pedelecs! I guess he is carrying out his threat, no wonder others are reticent to get involved with the Forum.

Suffice to say

1. We have offered to buy the bike back from him at the price he paid for it. He has refused this option.

2. We have asked him on at least 10 occasions to call New Milton so we can talk him through the fix. To my knowledge he still has not done so.

3. I have asked for his telephone number so either Doug or I can call him as above. To date he still has not supplied us with this information.

4. We have offered to fix the bike free of charge in the New Milton. Yes we have asked him to send it to New Milton for the fix. He refuses to bring the bike to us.

I think you all know me well enough now to know I will bend over backward to help anyone. I do however get upset when people are being unreasonable.

I will not get involved with this thread again, however if anyone does have a problem with their Wisper Bike be it from Germany or anywhere else, please do not hesitate to contact me on mial@aol.com (although I have now blocked Rob!) Or leave a message in the Wisper clinic.

As always best regards David

PS can we get Scott to have a look at this, I don't think it's good for the Forum.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Originally Posted by jimmyengland1000

The manufacturer markups in China are generally very much lower than that, sometimes a source of resentment against their importers in fact. Of course there can be the odd exception.
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As Flecc says, the mark ups in China are nothing like 100% (if only ) Nor are they here (again if only ). Secondly you would be amazed at the difference in quality between cheap Chinese bike built for the local market, as of course most of them are and a top of the range export bike. You can buy an electric bike in China for nearer £100.00 not £225.00 but you wouldn't ride it. You can buy a Chinese meal in Shanghai for 20p but you wouldn't eat it!

Best regards David

 

[Django]

To me this is clear cut. If you buy a bike from Germany and have a problem with it, you should return it Germany for the supplier either to fix it or arrange with the manufacturer to have it fixed.

The customer enters into a contract with the supplier while the supplier enters into a contract with the manufacturer.Therefore if there is a manufacturing defect then it is up to the supplier, not the customer, to take that up with the manufacturer.

The fact that Wisper Bikes have offered as a good will gesture to help anyone with a bike from Germany does them great credit.

That said, I don't think this kind of thread damages the forum. We can all read and come to our own conclusions. If people are wrong (manufacturers, distributors or individuals) it soon becomes obvious and where it is the former two that are wrong it is useful in informing decisions and hopefully in improving the way people do business.

Cheers,

Django

 

[rob]

1. We have offered to buy the bike back from him at the price he paid for it. He has refused this option.

The reason I don't want a refund is because I actually Want a Whisper works 905se. I just want one that works!

2. We have asked him on at least 10 occasions to call New Milton so we can talk him through the fix. To my knowledge he still has not done so.

Why do you think you can sort this out better over the phone!

3. I have asked for his telephone number so either Doug or I can call him as above. To date he still has not supplied us with this information.

Why do you think you can sort this out better over the phone!

4. We have offered to fix the bike free of charge in the New Milton. Yes we have asked him to send it to New Milton for the fix. He refuses to bring the bike to us.

300 Mile round trip to New Milton or £70 p&p, to fix a manufacturing fault!

Yes E-Wheels in Germany are responsible as the supplier and I was in the process of sorting this out with E-Wheels, when Frank owner of E-Wheels Germany advised that Whisper UK would help his customers.

As the problem is a manufacturing fault, E-Wheels are entitled to have the manufacturer resolve the fault, presumably this is why Whisper UK have agreed to help his customers. Alternatively the bikes would be shipped back to Germany and then back to New Milton then back to Germany then backs to the customer! At the cost of the manufacturer.

We all now know what the manufacturing fault is. Surely there are other ways of rectifying this fault, other than retuning the bike to Germany or New Milton! other approved repairers perhaps!

Regardless of where I purchased the bike and how much I paid for the bike, I should be entitled to a fully working Whisper Works 905se.

 

[rob]

1. We have offered to buy the bike back from him at the price he paid for it. He has refused this option.

The reason I don't want a refund is because I actually Want a Whisper works 905se. I just want one that works!

2. We have asked him on at least 10 occasions to call New Milton so we can talk him through the fix. To my knowledge he still has not done so.

Why do you think you can sort this out better over the phone!

3. I have asked for his telephone number so either Doug or I can call him as above. To date he still has not supplied us with this information.

Why do you think you can sort this out better over the phone!

4. We have offered to fix the bike free of charge in the New Milton. Yes we have asked him to send it to New Milton for the fix. He refuses to bring the bike to us.

300 Mile round trip to New Milton or £70 p&p, to fix a manufacturing fault!

Yes E-Wheels in Germany are responsible as the supplier and I was in the process of sorting this out with E-Wheels, when Frank owner of E-Wheels Germany advised that Whisper UK would help his customers.

As the problem is a manufacturing fault, E-Wheels are entitled to have the manufacturer resolve the fault, presumably this is why Whisper UK have agreed to help his customers. Alternatively the bikes would be shipped back to Germany and then back to New Milton then back to Germany then backs to the customer! At the cost of the manufacturer.

We all now know what the manufacturing fault is. Surely there are other ways of rectifying this fault, other than retuning the bike to Germany or New Milton! other approved repairers perhaps!

Regardless of where I purchased the bike and how much I paid for the bike, I should be entitled to a fully working Whisper Works 905se.

 

[flecc]

Regardless of where I purchased the bike and how much I paid for the bike, I should be entitled to a fully working Whisper Works 905se.

If you'd taken the full refund Rob, you could then subsequently have ordered a new one.

That way you have the Wisper (without an "h" ) which worked correctly.

Come on, admit it, you never thought of that.
.

 

[rob]

refund £800

new bike £1200

 

[flecc]

UK price yes, and I bet that's the sort of price in Germany now too, with that first batch not to the required spec offloaded on ebay.
.

 

[rob]

I would be very supprised if they are being sold in Germany at all!

 

[flecc]

I would be very supprised if they are being sold in Germany at all!

I think they will be Rob. Germany is an expensive market and a £1200 equivalent e-bike would be very normal there. The high end Kalkhoffs are the same price there as here, though they are made there.
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[jimmyengland1000]

I would be very supprised if they are being sold in Germany at all!

They are still being sold in Germany and are listed regularly on eBay. Given the simplicity of the repair, I'm very surprised you haven't just done it yourself. Any number of people on this forum can now talk/e-mail you through it and there are clear instructions on how to do it on this forum.

If you paid £800 for the bike and Wisper UK offered you £800 for it here, I think that's pretty fair, to be honest. As Flecc said, you could just go and buy another one from Germany with the refund but... because it may still have the same fault, it doesn't really get you anywhere. 30 minutes maximum and a soldering iron does though, if you opt to fix yours.

I think that, at the end of the day, one should be pragmatic about it. Yes, the 'German' bikes had a fault but at least it can be fixed very easily. They are substantially cheaper than here in the UK and are really worth the money, I'd say. So, rather than take on Wisper and cause yourself a lot of grief, why don't you just fix the bike? Loads of other people have done this and are pleased with the results. I did 15 miles on mine today and it's fantastic to ride. You'd be able to ride yours too in the knowledge that you got it at a good price....

 

[Jeremy]

As someone unconnected with Wisper, but who has followed this thread (and the others) from time to time, I do think that your expectations are a bit high, Rob.

You bought a bike at a knock down price from overseas, presumably to save a few quid. You find that it has a fault, so rather than follow EU law and take it up with the supplier (with whom you still have a contract) you decide to short-circuit things and go direct to the manufacturer.

The manufacturer knows that the German supplier has had a few bikes that are mis-wired and who has chosen to offload those on the market at a reduced price, rather than acknowledge/fix the problem. As a good-will gesture the manufacturer offers to help out those UK customers that opted to save a bit of cash by grey importing (as I understand the law Wisper are not under any obligation to help you out, even though they may have an obligation to help their German dealer out).

Rob, the law is quite clear. You have a legal right under EU law to have your bike put right. To claim your rights under the law all you need to do is send the bike back to the dealer you purchased it from (not Wisper UK, as your contract isn't with them, it's with the German dealer). The German dealer is obliged to fix the problem and return the bike to you under warranty. I would expect that you would have a reasonable claim to have your postage costs refunded.

If you choose to take up the kind offer by Wisper UK to sort out your bike as a good will gesture, then you actually don't have any rights to claim anything from them, as you have no contract with them.

I really can't see what is so difficult to understand about this. For example, my car had a minor fault fixed under warranty last Friday. My contract is with Toyota GB Ltd, so it is they who fixed the problem, free of charge to me. I know full well that they passed on the charge to Toyota in Japan, who will have refunded them the cost. Had I purchased the car from Toyota Netherlands, then I would only have a direct claim against Toyota Netherlands. Toyota GB Ltd would be under no obligation to help me, even if Toyota Japan would ultimately pick up the tab. This is how the vast majority of guarantees work in law, both in the UK and the EU.

Personally I don't like to see this forum used to try and blackmail a supplier who seems to be bending over backwards to be helpful, even when he is under no obligation whatsoever to deal directly with UK customers of his German dealer.

Jeremy

 

[jimmyengland1000]

As Jeremy says, the grey import aspect of things means a bike at £900 instead of £1200. It's more than a few bob.... it's lots of them, isn't it, and why not? For a saving like that, it's worth snipping a wire and moving a block connector, surely?

I must say that David Miall was very helpful when I contacted him. I explained that my Wisper is a used 'German' one and that it behaved oddly. I was really pleased to find that David contacted Dick Lai in China the same day and Dick replied to me within a few hours with clear instruction and photos on how to fix the fault. He did this knowing that 1. it was a used bike (so absolutely no warranty obligations there) and 2. that it was a 'German' one (annoying for Wisper UK to be undercut by their own product). But he still helped and all of us 'German' Wisper riders have benefited from it.

 

[frank9755]

I really didn't want to extend this thread as I am a bit sick of it but there are some things that I feel are getting confused so please forgive me making one more post.

As a consumer you have two forms of protection.
1. Statutory rights to return it to the retailer if not in good condition when sold
2. Manufacturer's warranty

If something you buy is not working properly or broken on arrival, you take it back to the shop - in this case e-Wheels aka Wisperbikes.de. No question. If its genuinely broken they pay the transport too. This is no. 1 above. I don't want to talk abuout this as I don't think there is any argument. Rob, I think you are in this category and your recourse is to e-Wheels.

I in fact did fix one or two minor problems (including the wiring fault) and did not for a second consider sending the bike back to Germany, claiming on a Wisper warranty or anything of the sort - and personally feel it would be daft to do so.

No 2. is different. If during its lifetime it develops faults there is the manufacturer's warranty. I understand EU law says that where the same product is sold in different EU countries a consumer can get it fixed at the manufacturers expense via a dealer of their convenience. The manufacturer can not use petty blocking techniques like requiring you to go via the dealer you bought it from as a way to weasel out of their warranty oblingations by making it more hassle than it is worth to claim. In this example, if my battery which worked when I got it had subsequently failed I would have wanted to send it to David in Kent to make a warranty claim. If David in Kent said 'no you must send the whole bike to Hamburg' I would have rightly felt he was trying to make it hard for me to claim and he is not allowed to do that.

For me this was only ever a theoretical argument as, unless my battery was one of the ones which died after a couple of weeks (as can happen with Lithiums - NB I have no knowledge of this having happened with a Wisper one), I would fix the bike myself using the same sources that JimmyEngland has identified. I only thought about it when Wisper (unwisely in my opinion) made a public statement to the effect that they would not honour warranty obligations on German bikes. To leave that unchallenged would be to accept it.

Wisper (again IMHO unwisely) tried to bluff their way out of this by saying the bikes were different from those sold in the UK (which would have meant there was not the obligation to handle warranty claims via the UK dealer arm of Wisper), that they had a 200 Watt motor, etc, but the slight flaw with that argument is that we all know the bikes are the same and Wisper has not tried to assert this recently which is A Good Thing.

I believe it is all now sorted out and Wisper's position appears to me to be more than helpful. I now have no hesitation in recommending them.

I think Wisper made a couple of tactical errors, and Doug's dafter emails and posts irritated me slightly, however I do not hold any grudges, it is a new industry and people are learning. Within a short space of time Wisper has created a global manufacturing and sales & marketing business. Really that is an amazing achievement and somethings are bound to go off track on the way.

Earlier in the thread people talked about poor customer service in the industry, but I don't think it is realistic to expect mature market service in an early stage industry. Suppliers compete on getting the product to market not answering the phone in 3 rings. That will happen in 5-10 years time. For now if they don't return your email, call; if they don't return your call, call back - be realistic!

My personal experience mirrors JimmyEngland's - its a great bike and has had only minor faults, the worst of which is lack of torque arm, which is covered in an earlier thread!

Frank