Which motor for cycle courier build? (60miles per day)

Hey everyone!

 

I work full-time as a cycle food courier for deliveroo. I work 6 days a week and average 60+ miles a day.

I live in Brighton, so there are a lof of hills, some of which are 12%.

 

I'm in the market for a new bike with DIY ebike conversion or prebuilt ebike. I don't really have budget limitations, but the total cost of ownership (buying price+maintainance+replacement parts) over 30k+ miles should be as little as possible.

 

My requirements:

- very reliable at 60+ miles per day

- low maintainance system

- low rolling resistance

- decent climbing ability on 10% hills

- decent acceleration in stop&go traffic

- most importantly: 100% legal (i want something that has a 250w sticker on it)(i know, police usually don't care, but they will once i'm involved in an accident. I don't want to risk that)

 

I worked on bikes a lot, so I'm quite experienced with that, but not much with ebikes yet - but willing and motivated to learn and experiment (I love tinkering)

 

Most bike shops recommend bosch cx systems, but i'm a bit concerned about the running cost of middrive systems, since they are so complex. Any experience from high-milage users? How often does the chain+cassette need to be replaced?

 

Also i hate the thought of being forced into the Bosch (or any manufacturer) ecosystem and needing to buy their overpriced batteries/parts.

 

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

 

tyvm in advance!

I'd go for a front BPM on a steel fork, rear rack battery.

BTW, the BPM motor needs a new set of ball bearings every 4,000 miles and a new clutch if you carry a lot of weight and ride in all weather.

Could you elaborate why you recommend the BPM front motor over something like the SWX02 48V rear motor?

 

How reliable are BBS01 middrives for professional use?

Could you elaborate why you recommend the BPM front motor over something like the SWX02 48V rear motor?

 

How reliable are BBS01 middrives for professional use?

there is always risk of broken spokes with geared hub motors because of the very high torque that these motors generate, made worse by their own weight. The inertia of the system cause spokes to snap when hitting potholes.

The simplest solution is to give the motor some suspension that will lessen the upward acceleration when the wheel hits a pothole. If you go for a rear motor, you need a full-sus bike.

The 48V SWX02 has a smaller and lighter core compared to the BPM, the clutch unit is less substantial for wear.

Thank you for your help.

 

Since you're selling them: How reliable are BBS01b middrives for professional use? What kind of parts of the middrive do have to be replaced regularly?

I would not recommend BBS01B for work.

it's not powerful enough, spares are expensive and more prone to water damage.

BBSHD would be a better choice but it's expensive.

Two battery packs over one extra large ones if you can charge at work

lower weight

I'd go for a front BPM on a steel fork, rear rack battery.

Oh, i just noticed this on the Woosh-website: "Please note that the BPM motor is marked 350W and NOT road legal."

 

I definitely need something road-legal. Road-accidents are only a matter of time when you're riding 50+ miles per day and i don't want to be involved in an accident with an uninsured, road-illlegal vehicle.

of course you have to take this issue into account. I tend to answer on technical considerations.

I definitely need something road-legal. Road-accidents are only a matter of time when you're riding 50+ miles per day and i don't want to be involved in an accident with an uninsured, road-illlegal vehicle.

 

You are absolutely right and are very sensible not to go down the dongle route with the kind of weekly distances you cover.

 

I met an old work mate by chance yesterday, he is now an accident investigator for the Police. I had my e-mtb with me and he told me he had only had one accident to investigate so far involving an e bike, he started with the Police nearly two years ago.

 

The first thing they did with the bike was to check to see it had not been modified in order to get over the speed restrictions.

of course you have to take this issue into account. I tend to answer on technical considerations.

 

Tyvm for your help, but now we're back to 0.

 

To everyone: Any other suggestions?

vulcanears,

 

I was very pleased with my FreeGo Eagle, which I had for 6 years until I replaced it with an Oxygen S-Cross MTB.

 

The latest Eagles have the far superior hydraulic disc brakes as opposed to cable operated discs.

 

There is a 4 month old one here that may be worth a look:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/freego-Eagle-electric-bike/253862289479?hash=item3b1b5f2047:g:U98AAOSwSflblpQM

 

Do ask which battery is fitted (8ah, 10ah or 16ah). It is probably 8ah or 10ah.

 

You can visit Easy Pedal Bikes in Eastbourne and see/and test ride one, or another make:

https://www.easypedalbikes.com/

Edited October 9, 20187 yr by Eagle

Test ride a bike with a Bosch Performance Line CX motor. I have a Cube Kathmandu which is one of the cheapest bikes with the CX motor, and after an initial glitch which has now been sorted I am thoroughly enjoying it. Good spec for the price from a reputable manufacturer, and the motor is an incredible assist on Turbo going up the steepest hills. I have no problem getting 60-70 miles out of a charge (500 kwh battery), and I'm an overweight medium fit 64 year old with a gammy heart.

The CX drive will be good on hills but hard on drive trains, unless using Nuvinci or Rohloff hubs.

 

Shimano STEPs is not bad climber, batteries are 20-30% cheaper than Bosch and can be used with Nexus or Alfine 8 hubs. Wouldn't recommend 11spd has some reliability issues.

There are factory STEPs bikes with Alfine 8spd that have autoshifting, motor shift gears for you. Manual shifting is with buttons.

Also Bosch bikes ( Activeline Plus) offering this.

 

Maintenance is hub oil change every 5000kms for Alfine and cheap single speed chain, rear sprocket. Maybe cheaper to run whole drive train into ground which could be +10000kms before needing chain, sprocket and chainring.

 

Big plus of hub is being able to change gears when stopped, something you will need to do lot of in city.

 

Shimano have released a 5spd 60nm rated Alfine hub this year. Ideal for Bosch Performance line 63nm motor and Shimano new E7000 60nm motor, may be OK with CX if you don't use Turbo.

The CX drive will be good on hills but hard on drive trains.

 

Can you be a bit more specific about this? How many miles on average can one expect from a drive train when using a CX motor before considering replacement?

 

I have read in several posts on this forum that the CX motor is hard on drive trains but I have not read anything specific. I know it depends on how one rides (mechanical sympathy etc) but on average how long is a drive train meant to last.

 

I had my second service on my CX motor mtb a few weeks ago. I had done 1500 miles. The mechanic told me the chain had stretched a bit but still had plenty of life in it. I never start off in turbo, and always ease off pedalling when changing gears. I also lube the chain either after every ride if its a long one (30 miles) or every two rides if I do around half this distance.

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

I talked to a bike mechanic yesterday and he advised me not to buy a Bosch system for professional heavy duty use, because the repair-cost and general running cost would be to high. Although they are certainly a loot of fun!

 

I also don't like the idea that i have to throw away the whole motor+controller+display when i damage the frame. Or throw away the whole bike when the motor is out of warranty and motor-repairs are not cost-effective any more.

 

I'd rather go with a DIY version.

Would the idea of a bbs01 with a rear hub gear Alfine 8 or similar be a possibility you can convert the bike of your choice , with only one cog at the rear wear is less I have a rear tensioner on mine. The lower initial cost of a diy conversion helps , and if you keep the motor greased and water tight most appear reliable unless you abuse it

Some users on here have thousands of miles on bbs01 motors even if you bought a spare it would still be cheaper than a new Bosch and a second battery by a reasonable amount

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

I talked to a bike mechanic yesterday and he advised me not to buy a Bosch system for professional heavy duty use, because the repair-cost and general running cost would be to high. Although they are certainly a loot of fun!

 

I also don't like the idea that i have to throw away the whole motor+controller+display when i damage the frame. Or throw away the whole bike when the motor is out of warranty and motor-repairs are not cost-effective any more.

 

I'd rather go with a DIY version.

 

Not sure if you or your mechanic are aware but Bosch motor overhauling has been helped by another new forum member > http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/hi-from-the-bearing-man.32768/#post-462000

How about one of Brighton Ebike 250w high torque systems

 

In simple terms they have the more robust guts of a 500w version . So over engineered for a 250w system which builds in a whole lot resilience

 

I also live in Brighton and have burned out nylon gears in hub motors on some of our steepest hills

 

I used to take a kit and run it on the edge ....but suffered too many failures

 

I like this motor , yes over engineered for 250w legality but it ain’t gonna die to easy

 

I also pair with alfine 8 hub for stop start niceness

 

 

 

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I should add that I use for leisure and commuting averaging 20miles per day

 

I’m on 2.5k with no issues

 

 

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KirstinS's advice is good but unfortunately these kits are thin on the ground at the moment:

https://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/

 

There is also Woosh of course:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit

Darren from BrightonEbikes seems to be very busy at the moment. He used to respond to message very quickly, but at the moment, no responses at all.

 

So regarding extra running costs of a hub motor: am i correct to assume that the 100Nm torque middrive will wear out drive trains pretty quickly?

So new cassette (30£)+ new chain (20£)+ front sprockets (40£) every 1500 miles or so? how many miles would you estimate?

Can you be a bit more specific about this? How many miles on average can one expect from a drive train when using a CX motor before considering replacement?

 

I have read in several posts on this forum that the CX motor is hard on drive trains but I have not read anything specific. I know it depends on how one rides (mechanical sympathy etc) but on average how long is a drive train meant to last.

 

I had my second service on my CX motor mtb a few weeks ago. I had done 1500 miles. The mechanic told me the chain had stretched a bit but still had plenty of life in it. I never start off in turbo, and always ease off pedalling when changing gears. I also lube the chain either after every ride if its a long one (30 miles) or every two rides if I do around half this distance.

With lot of MTBing my CX gets 1200kms from KMC e11 chain €25, change at 0.75mark. Replace cassette €40 very 3 chains and chainring €8 very chain.

 

My wifes STEPs commuter got 2500kms from 9spd chain.

 

9spd chains and cassettes are reasonably cheap compared to 11spd and probably harder wearing, so expect longer life.

 

Cassette wear depends on riding, lots of flat riding will wear a 1-2 higher gears used at 25kmh cutoff. Hill climbing will spread wear around cassettee.

 

Ignoring 0.75 wear mark will give lot higher mileage, just keep riding till something stops then change complete drivetrain..OK for commuting but wouldn't recommend it for MTBing.