Which Kalkhoff for off-road

lectureral · Mar 21, 2009

I have the Aggutta - it is very solidly built and I happily take to tracks with it. It has front shocks which helps. The great advantage of the panasonic drive system is that it drives through the gears so hill climbing ability is excellent.

tillson · Mar 21, 2009

I have a Pro-Connect, it is an excellent road bike and I am very happy with it. But as far as I am concerned, you should not take anywhere near anything less smooth than a billiard table unless you want your eyeballs shaken out of their sockets and your skeleton damaged.

I bought a Pro-Connect to use on the road and that is where it should stay. I believe that the Agattu and Tasman are more forgiving.

WALKERMAN · Mar 21, 2009

tillson said:
I have a Pro-Connect, it is an excellent road bike and I am very happy with it. But as far as I am concerned, you should not take anywhere near anything less smooth than a billiard table unless you want your eyeballs shaken of their sockets and your skeleton damaged.

I bought a Pro-Connect to use on the road and that is where it should stay. I believe that the Agattu and Tasman are more forgiving.

I agree with this.

The Pro Connect is very uncomfortable even on ordinary roads. I am going to fit a sprung seat post on mine to ease the discomfort. Can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive, one bolt fixing seat post as there are so many to choose from?

If I go ahead with plans to get a back-up bike to replace my Giant Lafree I am considering an Agattu because of the suspension it has.

oldseal · Mar 21, 2009

I got the XXL version. It is more sturdy for rough terrain. I haven't had it long but first impressions are good!

Fecn · Mar 21, 2009

I have an Agattu and do a lot of riding on the local bridleways and dirt tracks. It is excellent for the job and very comfortable.

Schwinnfan · Mar 21, 2009

Re;
I'm in the Forest of Dean where we have a lot of off-road gritted tracks. I'm using a hybrid non-electric bike now, which is good for exercise but hard work as I've rocketed up to 17st since stopping smoking. I'd like to extend my range and comfort

Jeff, we have just swapped two Schwinns, with no suspension, for two Leicster E from Hilderthorp cycles. They have front suspension and sprung seats and are a Tasmins under another name. They are well specced and the 100 miles i have done already has all been on the paths you describe but in Yorkshire and locally. They are great, comfy, well made and on the first full charge/flatten we climbed up to the aerial near Rivaux Abbey in north Yorkshire and did 30 miles.

I would have a look at this option, similar rivals such as the Giant, I have borrowed and are heavier.

Caph · Mar 21, 2009

If you're serious about off roading then you really should consider full suspension. It has a big effect on the speed at which you can safely ride on uneven surfaces. To me it makes the difference between hanging on for dear life being shaken half to death, and being in complete control of the bike.

Two options spring to mind. Powered Bicycles have the Galileo and the Bariccuda. Sustain Cycles have the Halley. There are probably others out there too.

I've been riding the Galileo for the past year and am very pleased with it both off and on road. I think there are some members on this forum who have been equally pleased with their Halley.

There's a couple of options for consideration anyway.

Fecn · Mar 21, 2009

I believe that's correct. To give you some idea, I'm about 6'2" tall and am quite long-legged. I have the 57cm framed agattu. I have the seat raised about 2 inches which gets me nicely on tippy-toes when I sit on the seat.

DWiskow · Mar 21, 2009

My wife & I both have Agattu's, which we regularly ride off road. I found that the standard tyres just didn't work well particularly going uphill (especially when wet and slightly muddy). More than once the front end has drifted out resulting in me coming off and I also found the back wheel frequently spinning uphill.

As a result, I fitted these . . . Schwalbe - Marathon Plus ATB . . . the same old Marathon Plus (including SmartGuard), but with a more suitable All Terrain tread. I also fitted Schwalbe Inner Tubes with 40mm schraeder Valves at the same time.

Pretty simple to fit, although you do need to make sure the tyre bead is well seated . . . and I had to use tyre levers for the last few inches.

Handling seems to be absolutely fine and off road is much improved.

Andy Grayland · Mar 22, 2009

There is going to be some great offers on Marathon plus and Marathon ATB tyres at Tour de Presteigne. So if you are intending to come to the event hold off buying tyres. Also if you want to try which bike is best off road there will be lots to try there including all the Kalkhoff bikes and others that may suprise you ;-)

stokepa31_mk2 · Mar 22, 2009

WALKERMAN said:
I agree with this.

The Pro Connect is very uncomfortable even on ordinary roads. I am going to fit a sprung seat post on mine to ease the discomfort. Can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive, one bolt fixing seat post as there are so many to choose from?

If I go ahead with plans to get a back-up bike to replace my Giant Lafree I am considering an Agattu because of the suspension it has.

I always wonder about this comment from pro c owners. I am a former torq and agattu owner but am currently running a felt qx75 which is a rigid bike (non elec) with no suspension in either forks or seat. the rigid front fork is a strait blade design with no reach and yet it is very comfortable even on coventry's less than impressive roads. What is it with the pro c that makes it less comfortable. the qx75 is circa £400 so why should it have a more forgiving ride than a bike which is far more expensive? or is it that the pro c frame is compromised in some way to allow for electics etc.

perhaps a carbon fork on the pro c with zerts inserts might be a better upgrade than a seatpost?

not pro c bashing but just find it an interesting that nearly all who have commented on the forum make mention of eyeballs falling out even on good surfaces.

flecc · Mar 22, 2009

Your QX75 has a very similar frame type to the Pro Connect Paul, and like you I've always found this type of unpowered bike comfortable.

It's probably the increase in unsprung weight that adds discomfort to the Pro Connect.

The whole of a rigid bike can be considered as unsprung weight, and it's the unsprung weight as a ratio to sprung weight that determines comfort amongst other things, the less unsprung the better. The rider's weight can be considered as sprung weight since the body has give through flexibility of muscles, softness of flesh and elasticity of joint membranes.

Since the Pro Connect is around double the weight of the QX75, it's ratio as a proportion of rider weight is that much greater, correspondingly increasing the discomfort.

In essence, 21 kilos bouncing upwards hits harder than 11 kilos doing the same, therefore penetrating more into the soft tissues and reacting more painfully on the hard areas of the body.
.

Andy Grayland · Mar 22, 2009

Does this mean that a step through frame is better than a step over on bumpy ground ? I have often wondered which is the stronger design. You would think the cross bar frame would be stronger due to the rigidity offered by the cross bar but the flexibility in the step through frame could make it stronger and more comfortable. Does anyone know?

flecc · Mar 22, 2009

The diamond frame is the stronger, but the step through usually the more comfortable due to fore and aft flexure absorbing road shocks transmitting between the wheels.

The crossbar is the villain where comfort is concerned, transmitting front road shocks directly towards the rear of the frame while the rear wheel does the same in reverse.

Gents electric assist bikes often have a sloping crossbar to help with the battery mounting, the crossbar then in straight alignment with the rear frame upper tubes, and these are the worst for direct transmission of shocks from front to rear.

And of course the other discomfort elements are the popular alloy frame and forks, alloy being far more rigid and inflexible that the steel of yesteryear. It's a major reason why many still insist on using lightweight steel frames made out of Reynolds 531 tubing and the like.
.

stokepa31_mk2 · Mar 22, 2009

flecc said:
Your QX75 has a very similar frame type to the Pro Connect Paul, and like you I've always found this type of unpowered bike comfortable.

It's probably the increase in unsprung weight that adds discomfort to the Pro Connect.

The whole of a rigid bike can be considered as unsprung weight, and it's the unsprung weight as a ratio to sprung weight that determines comfort amongst other things, the less unsprung the better. The rider's weight can be considered as sprung weight since the body has give through flexibility of muscles, softness of flesh and elasticity of joint membranes.

Since the Pro Connect is around double the weight of the QX75, it's ratio as a proportion of rider weight is that much greater, correspondingly increasing the discomfort.

In essence, 21 kilos bouncing upwards hits harder than 11 kilos doing the same, therefore penetrating more into the soft tissues and reacting more painfully on the hard areas of the body.
.

As usual Tony, that makes complete sense. With my lardy butt on the felt, the majority of the weight is sprung

Fecn · Mar 23, 2009

Jeff Mowatt said:
Is there an advantage in this new F model which appears to have a torque sensor on the pedals yet power the front wheel?

I guess the experience of starting off on a steep hill and flipping over backwards may be a risk with too much power on the rear wheel.

Perhaps another consideration for off road use, for better control on slippery surfaces?

Any thoughts?

Jeff

The F model is nowhere near as good a hill-climber as the crank-drive model as the motor doesn't get to take advantage of the gearing, and therefore can't spend as much time running at it's optimum efficiency. There was a review of the model F in the latest AtoB magazine.

I've ridden my crank-motor Agattu up some super-steep hills around here and can categorically say that there's absolutely no chance of flipping over backwards. The rear wheel looses traction before there's ever a chance of flipping.

Bigbee · Mar 23, 2009

Jeff Mowatt said:
I guess the experience of starting off on a steep hill and flipping over backwards may be a risk with too much power on the rear wheel.

I think you watch too many cartoons!

Which Kalkhoff for off-road

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