Which crank motor to choose? And is Active Plus better than STEPS E6000?

[E-Wheels]

Wow €3,200 is a bit rude!!. I paid AUD3,600 (€2,025)

In my search for an ebike for my 70km daily commute I was hoping to find one with a DD rear hub, but options are very limited in Australia
In the end I had to make a compromise (as most ebikers have done) and choose from the ebikes that were available locally and bought the Merida

At the time of buying I wasn’t, and to be honest, I’m probably still not completely confident of a centre drive holding up for my long distance commuting where I average 17,000km/year
Time will tell

What sold me on the Merida was;
1- the E8000 system and range
2 - it was ready out of the box as a commuter with rack, lights & mudguards
3- Shimanos build quality and reputation of reliability (hopefully)
4- local after market support with no questions asked 2 year warranty

With the 2 year warranty I figure that if the drive/s fail at any time within this period then it will be replaced with another and I will at least get 2 years riding and support

In the mean time I will continue to look for an ebike with a DD rear hub
I’m a firm believer in the N+1 theory as long as I have room in my garage

As soon as I got my ebike I added a Kinekt seat suspension post, Brooks B17 saddle and Ergon grips for extra comfort and converted the existing wheels to tubeless

I found the main advantages the E8000 system offered over others I researched and test rode is the long range and that when pedalling past the 25km/hr limiter the drive has very minimal (if any) drag and pedals like a normal bike
I come from years of commuting on road bikes, so it was important to me the feeling of riding an ebike had to be as close as possible to riding a normal bike
With the E8000 I get this and can continue to ride with a cadence of 90+ as the E8000 loves to spin and suits my riding style
To date I haven’t managed to spin the drive fast enough to a point where it stops adding assistance, even at 130+ cadence in low gear before hitting the 25km/hr limiter
I ride 99% of the time in Eco and average 5Wh/km so the 70km/day commute is easily achieved on a single charge from the 500Wh battery

Good luck finding your ideal ride

 

[Nefarious]

And if you get your DU replaced within the 5 years, you get brand new 5 year warranty on the new unit. It's the law. It's a tough market for the manufacturers/distributors/dealers here.

Sounds good to me!

 

[TomNO]

Wow €3,200 is a bit rude!!. I paid AUD3,600 (€2,025)

In my search for an ebike for my 70km daily commute I was hoping to find one with a DD rear hub, but options are very limited in Australia
In the end I had to make a compromise (as most ebikers have done) and choose from the ebikes that were available locally and bought the Merida

At the time of buying I wasn’t, and to be honest, I’m probably still not completely confident of a centre drive holding up for my long distance commuting where I average 17,000km/year
Time will tell

What sold me on the Merida was;
1- the E8000 system and range
2 - it was ready out of the box as a commuter with rack, lights & mudguards
3- Shimanos build quality and reputation of reliability (hopefully)
4- local after market support with no questions asked 2 year warranty

With the 2 year warranty I figure that if the drive/s fail at any time within this period then it will be replaced with another and I will at least get 2 years riding and support

In the mean time I will continue to look for an ebike with a DD rear hub
I’m a firm believer in the N+1 theory as long as I have room in my garage

As soon as I got my ebike I added a Kinekt seat suspension post, Brooks B17 saddle and Ergon grips for extra comfort and converted the existing wheels to tubeless

I found the main advantages the E8000 system offered over others I researched and test rode is the long range and that when pedalling past the 25km/hr limiter the drive has very minimal (if any) drag and pedals like a normal bike
I come from years of commuting on road bikes, so it was important to me the feeling of riding an ebike had to be as close as possible to riding a normal bike
With the E8000 I get this and can continue to ride with a cadence of 90+ as the E8000 loves to spin and suits my riding style
To date I haven’t managed to spin the drive fast enough to a point where it stops adding assistance, even at 130+ cadence in low gear before hitting the 25km/hr limiter
I ride 99% of the time in Eco and average 5Wh/km so the 70km/day commute is easily achieved on a single charge from the 500Wh battery

Good luck finding your ideal ride

Thanks, very helpful!

I just found it on sale at a local dealer for about 2550 EUR, which is still kind of high, but I might just pull the trigger on it. Haven't decided yet. Of course it's nice that it comes with factory mounted lights and mudguards, but, actually, I'm sceptic about the mudguards, as the rear one on my previous bike broke in the middle after about 2 years, just happened while riding, guess because of the stress from bumps etc. It was also a factory mounted mudguard, made by SKS, but it was some specialized/OEM model which you couldn't buy as a consumer, and you couldn't just mount any aftermarket mudguard as there was a special channel in it for the cables that go to the battery (mounted in the rack) and rear light, and the mounts were tricky too I remember. It also looked like a bit of a mess to replace even if I managed to get ahold of one. In that case, I would have preferred to have just some inexpensive aftermarket mudguards that you can replace easily yourself when they break, but in this case I had to deliver it to the dealer and make them take in on warranty, which is a mess and takes time, which is not good when you use the bike every day for commuting. But the lights were realy nice, just press a button and that's it, no charging or replacing batteries etc. Rack I don't use anyway. So if I could save "100 bucks" on not having factory mounted mudguards/rack/lights, I probably would take that option.

I'm in exactly the same situation as you were - I used to commute with a regular bike before switching to e-bike, and I want it to be as close to the real deal as possible. I just don't believe the CX offers this, although I have not tried it myself.

Thanks for the tip on seat suspension post, I actually have not seen one in real life, or even heard of one before, but I did suspect something like this exists, but have never looked into it. I might just add one to my next bike, as the roads are very uneven/bumpy over here.

Nice pic, btw. I wish I had such views on my commute.

 

[TomNO]

Just wanted to give an update, maybe it will be helpful to somebody else in similar situation.

I received my old bike back from the workshop. They replaced the whole motor (the good ol' E6000). I tested it on my usual route the next day, and I must say that it seems to be a bit quieter, but still quite loud. I don't know, there are so few E6000's on the roads over here that it's hard to compare. Maybe that's just how they are, or maybe I'm overloading it, considering the amount of steep hills, my weight, weight of the bike etc. I don't know. But none of the CX's or PW's I have met on my route have made so much noise.

Anyway, I finally got to test the new Bosch Active Line Plus motor, on a Cube Touring Hybrid One. Here are my thoughts:

Pros:

The Active Plus is almost dead silent, much quieter than my E6000. Most of the time I couldn't hear it at all. Very nice.

The assistance felt very smooth and natural, compared to the E6000, which has a more noticable "push". It just felt a bit more natural, although E6000 may be a bit more fun to ride. Also, the assistance "faded out" smoothly between 26 and 27 km/h, so the cutoff was not as noticable as on the E6000.

The chain moves if you pedal backwards, which is a nice feature which makes cleaning/oiling chain easier.

Cons:

Lacks power on steep hills or/and high cadence. On flats and small hills, there was no problem, there was plenty of assistance/torque, however, I then took it up a long, steeper hill (sorry, unknown grade), and it felt underpowered, at least compared to my E6000. I managed to keep the speed steady at 16-17km/h, confirmed by GPS. However, I drove up the same hill with my E6000 just 20 minuters earlier, and was able to keep steady 23-24km/h. I don't know if it was because of too high cadence, which was a bit over 100rpm, because I know this motor only supports up to 105rpm, so maybe it provides significantly less torque at the high end of the range. It would be nice if the manufacturers published torque curves for their motors...

The Active Line Plus is big and heavy. This is supposed to be new generation motor, but it's larger and approx half a kilo heavier than E6100, E7000 and E8000. Also, in my opinion, it's ugly, but I must admit that Cube have done a great job integrating this motor in their bikes.

Overall, I am disappointed with the Active Line Plus motor. I really wanted to like it, as it's so quiet and smooth, and there was a good deal on the Cube, but it just feels like a downgrade (power wise) compared to my old E6000. So I guess I will have to stick with Shimano and keep looking for deals on E8000, or wait till E6100 and E7000 hit the market.

 

[HH66]

Hi,
I see from this thread that you took a Cube Touring Hybrid One for a test ride. I know you were mainly comparing the Bosch motor to your current bike but I'd be interested to know what your impressions were of the bike in general as I'm thinking of buying one. I'd only use it for leisure cycling so being able to climb hills at 15+kmh is plenty for me and I'd be happy with the Bosch motor. I just wondered how the bike handled and what the build was like.
Thanks

 

[Stradaman]

Just wanted to give an update, maybe it will be helpful to somebody else in similar situation.

I received my old bike back from the workshop. They replaced the whole motor (the good ol' E6000). I tested it on my usual route the next day, and I must say that it seems to be a bit quieter, but still quite loud. I don't know, there are so few E6000's on the roads over here that it's hard to compare. Maybe that's just how they are, or maybe I'm overloading it, considering the amount of steep hills, my weight, weight of the bike etc. I don't know. But none of the CX's or PW's I have met on my route have made so much noise.

Anyway, I finally got to test the new Bosch Active Line Plus motor, on a Cube Touring Hybrid One. Here are my thoughts:

Pros:

The Active Plus is almost dead silent, much quieter than my E6000. Most of the time I couldn't hear it at all. Very nice.

The assistance felt very smooth and natural, compared to the E6000, which has a more noticable "push". It just felt a bit more natural, although E6000 may be a bit more fun to ride. Also, the assistance "faded out" smoothly between 26 and 27 km/h, so the cutoff was not as noticable as on the E6000.

The chain moves if you pedal backwards, which is a nice feature which makes cleaning/oiling chain easier.

Cons:

Lacks power on steep hills or/and high cadence. On flats and small hills, there was no problem, there was plenty of assistance/torque, however, I then took it up a long, steeper hill (sorry, unknown grade), and it felt underpowered, at least compared to my E6000. I managed to keep the speed steady at 16-17km/h, confirmed by GPS. However, I drove up the same hill with my E6000 just 20 minuters earlier, and was able to keep steady 23-24km/h. I don't know if it was because of too high cadence, which was a bit over 100rpm, because I know this motor only supports up to 105rpm, so maybe it provides significantly less torque at the high end of the range. It would be nice if the manufacturers published torque curves for their motors...

The Active Line Plus is big and heavy. This is supposed to be new generation motor, but it's larger and approx half a kilo heavier than E6100, E7000 and E8000. Also, in my opinion, it's ugly, but I must admit that Cube have done a great job integrating this motor in their bikes.

Overall, I am disappointed with the Active Line Plus motor. I really wanted to like it, as it's so quiet and smooth, and there was a good deal on the Cube, but it just feels like a downgrade (power wise) compared to my old E6000. So I guess I will have to stick with Shimano and keep looking for deals on E8000, or wait till E6100 and E7000 hit the market.

After a month of searching for an Ebike I narrowed my choices down to 2 bikes. 1 with the active line plus and another with the shimano steps E6000 I test rode the bike with bosch motor and i definitely concur with your thoughts, it was quiet, smooth and very natural feeling, (not as fun as the Oxygen Scross I compared it to but a much better overall package) however the bike with the shimano motor was better looking and had better parts but no opportunity to test ride it. This thread was literally the only real life comparison I could find and it definitely helped sway my decision. I ended up buying the bike with the E6000 motor.

Its not arrived yet but ill let you know if i have the same issues you had

Thanks again @TomNO for a thorough write up.

 

[Trevormonty]

The E6000 we had was reliable no problems in 5000kms till sold to friend, maybe upto 7000kms now. Compared Bosch CX wasn't any noisier.

Compared to current generation 2 Activeline the E6000 is superior climber and eco mode is more useful. Lumpier in High mode and sharp cutoff at 25kmh is ignoring in high settings compared to bosch 25-27kmh fade out. When used in Eco on flat 25kmh cutoff is not that noticeable.

I'd thought Plus would've match E6000 for power but sounds like it no better than Gen2 motor. I had my mind set on a bike with Plus motor but never had chance to test one, now glad I went with another CX drive, especially with my hilly commute.