Which conversion kit for a touring bike?

[TwoWheeling]

Hello!

I'm a complete newbie so please forgive my ignorance to the world of e-bike

I'll just try and explain my situation and what I'm looking for in the hope that someone might have some useful advice...

I currently own a Dawes Galaxy touring bike, used for generally getting around within a few mile radius. I have done a few longer tours (60-90 miles per day/2-6 days) on it and used to commute to work a few times a week however due to injury, it's been a little while.

Injury now healing, I would like to get out and ride more, however my work commute is just that bit too long and hilly to do everyday, especially out of practice.

I'm looking to fit a kit to assist my daily commute and for primarily hill help on longer distance tours. The trip to work and back is about 20 miles with a few burning climbs (~10% so not actually that bad). Assistance would be mostly on the hills but also generally just to speed up the journey.

Since I would still like to do a lot of my flat cycling without assistance I'm hoping to get something quite lightweight. Budget is negotiable, but probably no more than about £500, I'm fairly frugal so always prefer a cheaper deal.

I'm edging toward hub motor over mid-drive since it seems to fit my requirements (moderate hills and limited assistance) and from what I understand mid-drive is not a common retrofit. That is my take on it using very little knowledge on the subject though so please do say if you disagree.

I've looked at the Dillenger 250w 10Ah - this seems fairly good though a little on the heavy side and top end of ideal budget. I've also seen a few chinese knock-offs on ebay but this seems like a bad idea...?

I'm an engineer by profession so fairly mechanically minded and should be able to fit and wire up the kit myself.

Please can anyone offer advice on whether they think this is a good way to go, or any other/better suggestions?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Nealh]

Hello TW , I see you have found us after seeing you on the dark side at ES.
Mid drives are quite common though price wise with battery will be over £650.
For the lightest hub you need a geared hub most will be about 3.5- 4.5 kg then 1/2kg for the electrics and up to 3kg for a battery. Batteries are available in UK.
Sellers of hub kits Woosh bikes , Panda e bikes, Cyclotricity and a few others.
All components can be bought from decent China sites like PSWPower, BMS Batteyr and Greenbike kit. From China the Q100 or Q128 are good and fairly light as far as hub motors go.
Direct from the maker Xiongda you can get a very light sub 2kg kit for about £150 without a battery ,thread link http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/lightweight-trekking-bike-build.28276/

Post up any links to get the low down from the forum to what to get and not to get as will save you some wasted money.

 

[rich_r]

For reference a Panda Pro 250W front hub kit and a 10.4Ah bottle battery have added 8 kg to my bike. I got the kit when it was on offer, and the battery from Germany, so the total spend was under £400.

I'm not saying that that particular kit would work out best for you, but it maybe gives an idea of prices. If you buy direct from China you can knock a good chunk off that, but beware of shipping and import costs.

 

[Nealh]

Riding without assistance does mean you will feel the extra weight of the kit on the bike so the lighter the better.
Assuming you have cassette gears then you will need a cst hub to utilise them otherwise you will have to get freewheel for other rear hub types. Alternately you could get away with a light front hub as in d8veh's lightweight build.

 

[Warwick]

From a fellow tourer's perspective, I'd suggest a front hub/frame battery kit. I tour with rear panniers only, and a rear hub/rear rack battery combo would add significantly to the load carried by the rear wheel. I've just converted a bike for touring with the FWD/frame battery set up, and it is very well balanced compared to the rear hub Oxygen I also have.

I bought a Panda Pro 250W kit & a battery to suit from BGA Reworking. The latter is 17Ah and copper-wired with Panasonic cells, so I'm hoping for a decent range. Total spend was just under £600, with £375 of that on the battery. It's nowhere near as powerful and fast as the Oxygen, but speed is not the major factor when touring, as you know. Seeing as you are reasonably savvy, the Panda Eco kits are slightly cheaper, but the display is rather limited. The Panda Pro kit was about as plug & play as it gets.

 

[TwoWheeling]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

What you've said seems to make sense. For touring I will be laden up with rear weight, I also use rear panniers for my work commute and carry 5kg+. Mid-drives do seem quite pricey, particularly for my first foray into electric biking. So I'm inclined to agree that front hub motor is the way to go...

On that, the two that seem most suitable are the Panda Pro and the Q100. I've seen that the weight of the latter is just 2kg which seems very light, however I can't find a weight for the panda without battery to compare?

https://www.pandaebikes.com/shop/conversion-kits/panda-250-pro-silver-ebike-kit/

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/420-q100-36v250w-350w-front-e-bike-kit-with-led-meter-ebike-kit.html

There is around £70 price difference between the two once delivery is factored in, so not much in the grand scheme.

I'm also interested in the Xiongda, but struggling to find any information about it? I'm around 65kg so shouldn't need too much power up the hills so this may work.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Forget about a front motor. There's complications in fitting them, they're noisy and they lack grip when climbing hills. Instead go for a rear one and a mid-mounted battery.

The Q100 is 2.2kg. The Panda one will be over 3kg. It's only worthwhile using the Q100 if you're considering a lightweight build. Every kg counts, but if you have a heavy bike with a heavy battery, a bigger motor can give you more power options.

 

[Warwick]

I don't think a pannier-laden bike would have any grip issues on hills. The weight distribution advantages outweigh anything else from a touring perspective.

The OP is only 65Kg and is looking for gentle assistance, so a front motor would suffice, IMO.

There's a (long-winded) account of my ongoing Panda Pro kit project here: http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/panda-pro-orbit-orion-conversion.28218/

 

[Nealh]

I run two cst's with panniers and weight is no issue on the rear. My oxydrive boardman I use for up to 90 mile outings and carry extra batts for range in panniers along with all my other kit.

 

[rich_r]

Until my bottle mount lithium battery arrived a couple of days ago, I was using sealed lead acids on a pannier rack. That's six 5Ah batteries gaffer taped together and held down with two bungees - 14kg in total. I weigh around 110kg.

No problems with grip with a 250W front hub motor going up hills despite all that weight at the rear end of the bike. That's on normal roads though - I guess on steep mountains roads or loose surfaces things could be different.

Having said that, if I decide to convert my other bike, I'll probably go for a rear cassette motor. But mainly because I want to retain the quick release on the front wheel.

 

[TwoWheeling]

So, it turns out Warwick is close by and he kindly offered to let me try out his Panda Pro installation, thanks so much that was very helpful!

I was really impressed with the level of assistance so I don't think I need anything more power wise.

I was also impressed with the build quality of the panda, not sure I have faith that the Q100 would match up. So given I can't see any other advantages of the Q100 over the PP, I think I will go ahead an order the Pando Pro.

Which leads me on to battery. It seems like my best option here is to email Jimmy at BGA reworking and tell him what I'm looking for. I was thinking of getting a small battery for commuting then at some point a larger one or an additional small one for touring. However looking at the weights it seems like the difference between 10aH and 17.5aH is only around 500g - so I may just go straight in with a 17aH and take the 500g hit for the ride to work.

 

[Warwick]

Jimmy's 17Ah battery that he made for my Panda Pro kit is impressing me with its range so far.

 

[TwoWheeling]

Do you have contact details for Jimmy? I emailed the standard BGA address but no response so far, not sure if that is the best way to get in contact

Also what is the lead time on his batteries usually?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

He did mine next day, but I guess he might be a bit busier now.

 

[Warwick]

http://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/ is the website. I called and asked to speak to Jimmy & got put through each time.

He had mine delivered to my doorstep in under a week.

 

[Warwick]

One thing I've noticed with my Panda Pro kit is that the speedo & distance gauges are both almost exactly spot on, or <1% off, if Strava is right. My Oxygen is >5% inaccurate. I know that boils down to tyre size, but 5% is pretty far out.

 

[Bablefish]

Ok as I started this thread, I thought I would give an update on what I have gone for.

In the end I have decided to go for a BBS01B 36v 350W, DPC14 colour screen, a 14.4ah battery and brake sensors.

I ordered this last night and I'll give some updates with the fitting process

 

[John L]

I hope it goes well for you

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Bablefish]

Ok,

I've started my conversion and had a couple of issues so far.

1st I could not get my bottom bracket out, I bought a tool on Amazon and I don't think it was a good one as it kept slipping, so had to get my LBS to loosen it for me.

2nd problem is the battery, I need to install 2 new rivnuts as the current ones are too low down.

Has anyone any tips for drilling the new holes, the tube has a rounded triangular section and the holes need drilled on the point.

Also, are there any brackets going about to suit triangular section as I am worried that there is not enough section for the battery to sit on.

3rd, I went for the magnetic brake sensors, how have people attached these to the brakes, they come with some 3M adhesive, but that wont last very long.

How do people permanently mount these. Also the magnet is quite a bit lower then the sensor, how far can the magnet be from the sensor.

 

[Nealh]

For the brake sensor the magnet needs to be within 1-3 mm of the sensor ( a case of trial and error), epoxy resin/ Araldite type can be used for glue.
Use masking tape and mark the hole position for the rivnuts, with a centre punch make an indent to center the drill bit.
If you can't get a drill in there then a Dremmel tool may be easier.
For the frame you will have to probably design some hardwood formers to the shape or get something 3D printed for the mounting bracket, if you know a machinist then possible to get some made in aluminium.