Which cheap bike?

flecc · Feb 27, 2009

The other way round I'm afraid, there's little that's any good at those prices.

The Meercat Metro was a Tesco exclusive version of the Izip and you might as well rule it out straight away. It's very heavy being all steel with lead acid batteries, and with that old design motor system the range often only scrapes to 10 miles with new batteries. It seems Tesco have abandoned it.

The £399 folder is at a very low price for what is effectively the £699 Powacycle Puma, but these folders are very low geared because of the tiny wheels, limiting the speed you can pedal to, though the motor can take you to around 15 mph. I see there's only one left at that price.

To be really serious about buying an effective e-bike you need to spend about double these amounts and that's still only getting you in at the ground floor. These very low prices have their catches, for example the folder's lithium battery type lasts about two years at the most and often less, and you don't know if you can get a replacement when the time comes with sell off bikes. The Puma battery probably fits but it costs £259 currently with postage, not much less than the bike.
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Hooligooner · Feb 27, 2009

I have the iZip so can add a little.

As Flecc has said it is a hugely heavy bike, but you may not realise how noisy the motor is either, it sounds like a milk float.

That said I have been very satisfied with mine, although my riding style is to add some reasonable effort of my own in. It may be a little underpowered to get up some of the steeper hills without rider assistance, or a little slow in motorbike mode on the flat.

£289 is very cheap, almost a disposable electric bike, as long as you go into it with your eyes open you could get a reasonable bike for the money but don't expect much in the way of after sales service or quality gear.

If you're anywhere near South Bucks, you can have a go on mine...

UrbanPuma · Feb 27, 2009

Cocodude, I have a powercycle puma folding bike which is identical to the electro-city you are considering. I have achieved a maximum range of 16 miles on a single charge, without heavy rider input.

Its not great on hills but as you say, you will rarely be tackling them. It can manage slopes but you need to be in a high gear and put in more leg power to reduce stress on the motor .

I've had the bike for 1.5 years and have had no problems with it. I am however, a light user and only ride for leisure purposes, therefore consuming 127 miles in total. I'm hoping to get out more now the weather is improving and will report on range achieved then.

It rides like a dream but the gearing is low. You can boost speed with the throttle, which i tend to do. I cycled around Gurnsey last summer doing a total of 12 miles on a charge and it was a wonderful experience, using mostly pedelec mode and throttle intermittently.

For the price, i would recommend it. It is great fun. I also took part in the London Freewheel with it and it coped very well. You can take it anywhere too. Do let us know what you end up purchasing.

All the best!

Urbanpuma

ranavalona · Feb 27, 2009

As someone brand new to e-bikes I'm certainly not qualified to argue with fleccs assertion that cheap bikes are not worth buying.

However, fact is that four hundred quid-ish was all I could justify paying to ease my sixty four year old knees' on their three mile commute, and after much looking around I opted for the Alien Odyssey. After a slight initial hiccup to get a replacement for the battery pack damaged in transit - great support from Bob, the seller - I have to say I'm mightily pleased! I can pedal or not, as I wish. The other evening I did the entire trip without pedalling once, including the half mile drag up a 1-in-12, just to see if it would. In the milder weather this morning I even regretted not having a longer ride!

Of course I don't know how long it will last, and I'm already prepared for the probable battery replacement after a couple of years, but at the moment I'm a complete fan!

Alien - AlienOcean Home do a folder with similar spec, the Lynx at £399, which you may want to seriously consider.

But, of course, no guarantees from me on longevity, (although the seller gives a warranty on major parts).

nin26 · Feb 27, 2009

Crikey - I've just been looking at that site - the Alien Unisex Special looks pretty good to me for the money. Nice to see replacement parts for sale too. It certainly looks a little heath robinson compared to the more mainstream (and more expensive) e-bikes, but I'm not sure I could justify twice the price and more just for a prettier bike. As far as I can see, the only gamble is longevity of the motor - which is the bafang jobbie that some of the big guns use isn't it?

Anyone else had any experience of them?

keithhazel · Feb 27, 2009

nin26 said:
Crikey - I've just been looking at that site - the Alien Unisex Special looks pretty good to me for the money. Nice to see replacement parts for sale too. It certainly looks a little heath robinson compared to the more mainstream (and more expensive) e-bikes, but I'm not sure I could justify twice the price and more just for a prettier bike. As far as I can see, the only gamble is longevity of the motor - which is the bafang jobbie that some of the big guns use isn't it?

Anyone else had any experience of them?

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i did buy a folder from Bob a coiple of years ago when he first set out,it had a fault and no quibble refunded and had it collected, i have only heard good things about his customer service and positive about what he sells...

flecc · Feb 27, 2009

ranavalona said:
As someone brand new to e-bikes I'm certainly not qualified to argue with fleccs assertion that cheap bikes are not worth buying.

But I didn't say that!

As Hooligooner says the IZIP can be ok for some, but Cocodude says he wants a range of "at least" 10 miles, so I said forget the IZIP since it can only scrape that for many people with new batteries. Clearly that's no good for him since the range reduces over time as the batteries deteriorate.

I did say "To be really serious about buying an effective e-bike you need to spend about double these amounts" and I stand by that. A year ago there was the odd bike around at £300 to £400 at the bottom of the market, but since then the exchange rates and prices have increased by around 40%.

For example the known budget ebay bikes have increased greatly, The Synergie Mistral was once at £499 but today is £799, and at the bottom of the mainstream, the Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor models once at £499 are now £699. Therefore I wonder about the quality of anything remaining at the old £300/£400 rock bottom prices and the staying power of the suppliers.

The latter may be ok, but I'm certainly not going to stick my neck out by saying they are, having seen so many duds and failed suppliers in the past.

A number of members have had good experience with the Alien kits which do use the quite reliable Bafang motors, but the kits alone are £349 for the low powered 24 Volt one and £399 for the 36 Volt one, so not exactly matching up to £300 to £400 for a complete bike.
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The Maestro · Feb 27, 2009

flecc said:
The other way round I'm afraid, there's little that's any good at those prices.

The Meercat Metro was a Tesco exclusive version of the Izip and you might as well rule it out straight away. It's very heavy being all steel with lead acid batteries, and with that old design motor system the range often only scrapes to 10 miles with new batteries. It seems Tesco have abandoned it.

The £399 folder is at a very low price for what is effectively the £699 Powacycle Puma, but these folders are very low geared because of the tiny wheels, limiting the speed you can pedal to, though the motor can take you to around 15 mph. I see there's only one left at that price.

To be really serious about buying an effective e-bike you need to spend about double these amounts and that's still only getting you in at the ground floor. These very low prices have their catches, for example the folder's lithium battery type lasts about two years at the most and often less, and you don't know if you can get a replacement when the time comes with sell off bikes. The Puma battery probably fits but it costs £259 currently with postage, not much less than the bike.
.

I disagree with much of this. You can get a good bike for £400 that uses components proven over years and hundreds of thousands of miles of use. The Alien bikes mentioned by a previous poster are a good example who do a folder for £399

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alien-LYNX-Folding-Electric-Bicycle-Bike-e-bike_W0QQitemZ150328951531QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Bikes_GL?hash=item150328951531&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1121|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

The electric components on these bikes are solid and more proven than many of the premium brands and although a few peripheral components may not be brilliant they can easily be replaced after a period of time by a local bike shop or by yourself if you want to save money. Cheap frames are usually more durable that expensive ones they are just a bit heavier.

Regarding batteries - you are in even more trouble if you buy a premium bike and the company goes to the wall that if you buy a cheap bike which use more generic parts. The companies selling premium bikes are hardly a sure fire bet either.

In any case you can stick practically any battery on any bike with minor adjustments, just stick it on the rear rack and wire up 2 wires! Why buy an expensive bike where only one battery is designed to fit in a specific space?

I understand that many people are uncomfortable doing any work on their bike themselves but I really don't see more expensive bikes as a safer bet. A £1500 bike will not perform much better than a £400 bike either provided you choose the right one.

Synergie Mistrals are more or less the same price they always were and will probably fall in price as the country goes to the wall. £499 from all reasonable sources.

The Maestro · Feb 27, 2009

nin26 said:
Crikey - I've just been looking at that site - the Alien Unisex Special looks pretty good to me for the money. Nice to see replacement parts for sale too. It certainly looks a little heath robinson compared to the more mainstream (and more expensive) e-bikes, but I'm not sure I could justify twice the price and more just for a prettier bike. As far as I can see, the only gamble is longevity of the motor - which is the bafang jobbie that some of the big guns use isn't it?

Anyone else had any experience of them?

Yes Bafang motor is the dogs danglies. Since most faults with motors show up quickly (e.g. manufacturing fault) you can get it replaced if you get a rare duff one. In the main though they will likely last decades. Water proofing absolutely no probs with them they will even work underwater! Controllers no problems with either and the throttle and electric cut off brake levers are basic but do the job.

With my Alien I have had a couple of faulty batteries though. No problem with Alien with replacements though - next day post. I think I had one from a bad batch. I havent heard of any problems with the 24V battery. I have a 36V one.

flecc · Feb 27, 2009

The Maestro said:
Synergie Mistrals are more or less the same price they always were and will probably fall in price as the country goes to the wall. £499 from all reasonable sources.

Dealers like Electric Bike Sales were listing them at £799 recently and they were out of stock everywhere.

I see that Synergie themselves now have some back in at £499 on ebay now, but that wasn't the position last time I checked, hence my posting as above.

The rest is opinion of course.
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The Maestro · Feb 27, 2009

flecc said:
Dealers like Electric Bike Sales were listing them at £799 recently and they were out of stock everywhere.

I see that Synergie themselves now have some back in at £499 on ebay now, but that wasn't the position last time I checked, hence my posting as above.

The rest is opinion of course.
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They were always about £699 from them and didn't they put it up a lot because some TV programme featured them?

Yes I agree its opinion and I certainly wouldn't recommend an ebay bike without making sure you will get support from the seller for a reasonable length of time after the purchase. I think its fair to say that much that is on ebay is junk. However I doubt you'll get better support from 50Cycles, Wisper, Ezee etc. that you will from Alien. Any of them could go bust though. Maybe the Tesco bike is the best. I bet they would give money back no questions asked within 12 months and Tesco aren't going bust!

Alex728 · Feb 27, 2009

I wonder if Synergie and Alien are the same company or related... they both seem to give an address in Inverkeithing Scotland...

flecc · Feb 27, 2009

The Maestro said:
They were always about £699 from them and didn't they put it up a lot because some TV programme featured them?

I don't know, they were the only one featured listing them recently so I went by that. I'm not sure if Synergie actually have them in since they say "at least ten available", rather odd if they'd actually been received in which case they'd know how many.

The Maestro said:
However I doubt you'll get better support from 50Cycles, Wisper, Ezee etc. that you will from Alien. Any of them could go bust though.

I'm not so sure. Wisper have arranged help via local dealers on many occasions, and 50cycles have picked up and returned faulty bikes free of charge on many occasions. Both of those have given extensive help in this forum to many members as well. That sort of service can't be had from ebay sellers and I don't see Bob at Alien watching this forum for owners in trouble as those two firms do

The Maestro said:
Maybe the Tesco bike is the best. I bet they would give money back no questions asked within 12 months and Tesco aren't going bust!

Actually Tesco have washed their hands of them for owners asking for help, so useless beyond 12 months. The one Cocodude mentioned though wasn't from Tesco, it was from Amazon, and I wouldn't think there'd be much support from them and they certainly wouldn't pick up a dud one, so it would be the buyers nightmare to return.
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The Maestro · Feb 28, 2009

flecc said:
I don't know, they were the only one featured listing them recently so I went by that. I'm not sure if Synergie actually have them in since they say "at least ten available", rather odd if they'd actually been received in which case they'd know how many.
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Do you mean the bit where it says in the Auction 'More than 10 available'? Thats just ebay wording, I've seen it many times, I don't know what it means as I only ever list single items. I expect it means that they have a standing stock of 10+ bikes.

I don't know why a seller would have to have a presence on this forum to look out for 'owners in trouble' since they are going to contact him direct initially and only come somewhere like here if they have no joy. I don't see any complaints about Alien bikes on here. I have had a few problems regarding batteries but I can't fault the company. I decided to fiddle with them because I'm really impatient. I actually thing Bob isn't that technical actually and prefers just to replace stuff though I might be wrong. The other firms mentioned are only here for publicity and spend more on marketing and hype than the bikes (imo)

flecc · Feb 28, 2009

The Maestro said:
Do you mean the bit where it says in the Auction 'More than 10 available'? Thats just ebay wording, I've seen it many times, I don't know what it means as I only ever list single items. I expect it means that they have a standing stock of 10+ bikes.

Thanks, I didn't know that, not versed in the complexities of ebay.

The Maestro said:
The other firms mentioned are only here for publicity and spend more on marketing and hype than the bikes (imo)

That may or may not be true, but the various help, support and even collection both direct and via dealers that they give is undeniably far better than any ebay seller can manage. Two of the firms have even given support for second hand bikes which are out of warranty, even to the extent of free spare parts.

For the majority who are non-technical that makes their products well worth it.
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Pedro62 · Mar 1, 2009

hi. You don't get good bikes for cheap. I have had cheap bikes before now and they break and do not ride well. Cheap parts, cheap materials. I bought Ezee Forza and it is the best bike out there. it costs more than 399 but worth it

fishingpaul · Mar 1, 2009

Pedro62 said:
hi. You don't get good bikes for cheap. I have had cheap bikes before now and they break and do not ride well. Cheap parts, cheap materials. I bought Ezee Forza and it is the best bike out there. it costs more than 399 but worth it

Im not quite sure if bikes are produced in the same way,but in the tv and video world many products shared the same case and components, often premium brands had the very same cheap innards as the rock bottom budget no name supplier,some cheap ebikes certainly seem to share the same frame and motor as the more expensive bikes,and some cheaper end bikes have receieved decent reviews,even the more expensive bikes at £1300+ experience breakdowns and have battery problems,many electric bike batteries are lasting less than two years and costing £350+to replace even on £1300+bikes,so if a £400 bike lasted only 2 years and was then thrown in a skip it would probably work out cheaper in many cases than paying over £1000 for a supposed quality bike.which would be worth little more than a replacement battery if you had fitted one to it.for example £400 bike thrown away =£400 loss after two years.£1200 bike + replacement £350 battery after two years would probably be worth around £500 if you sold it =£1050 loss.

flecc · Mar 1, 2009

Mmmmm. After two years riding a Powacycle Puma, I'd probably lose the will to live.

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