Which bike for off-road?

[eddieo]

1. Because you can
2. You have to get up the hill in the first place
3. You have to get back up the hill to do it all again
4. Repeat 3
5. Then it could take you to work

It seems so far that branded ebikes have mainly been built for the road and that MTB's have been ignored - until now

I dont think many e bikes are up to the job....In Italy its all downhill, they have chair lifts to get you up to the top

If you want a quality all rounder then I guess its the 906

 

[Gepida uk]

This is close the second debate I'm having with myself:

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide a bike built for the job at more expense than a conversion but with lower componentry than the Marin.

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide possibly a longer warranty, depending on the bike (Wisper at 2 years on battery).

Buying a purpose made ebike will provide the opportunity to use a bottom bracket motor which is possibly more suitable offroad (but that debate has already started) and less or equal weight than a Marin (base bike is around 15Kg, 23-25Kg converted)

The Marin as a fantastic bike unassisted, as an average fit rider, it might compromise the ride, so I might want to save it for unassisted rides.

So the question remains, convert or buy branded, if buy branded, which one?

The 906xc tourer looks to be a nice bit of kit, it has a front hub, why? What is special about the Dapush motor?

We also give a 2 year warranty on our Gepida battery!

 

[nitrambo]

FYI: The Bafang QSWXK motor (which will take a 6 bolt disk brake) is also slightly lighter (approx 500g) than the QSWXB2 motor.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

We also give a 2 year warranty on our Gepida battery!

Yes Aid but a little tiny 2 year Warranty to go with the battery!

All the best David

 

[eTim]

If i was going off-road as much i would off looked at one of these. I think Caph who is on the forum as one & has used it off road & posted on here last time this thread came up. Powered and Electric Bikes Largest Range In UK (& look at the Galileo Full suspension Mountain Bike)

Looks like a nice bike, 24v, 10ah, 200w motor and 7 speed, I'm not sure how that would translate to hill climbing ability! Probably not great and might be a disappointing purchase in the long run. OK about town and country with rolling hills and bumpy roads.

 

[Scatty]

Looks like a nice bike, 24v, 10ah, 200w motor and 7 speed, I'm not sure how that would translate to hill climbing ability! Probably not great and might be a disappointing purchase in the long run. OK about town and country with rolling hills and bumpy roads.

7 speed sure it said 21 speed ? . Mybe Caph can join in & tell us how hes getting on with his i know he's had it a while reading some of his earlier posts & the off roading he has done. So Maybe wont be too much of a dissappointing purchase.

 

[eTim]

7 speed sure it said 21 speed ? . Mybe Caph can join in & tell us how hes getting on with his i know he's had it a while reading some of his earlier posts & the off roading he has done. So Maybe wont be too much of a dissappointing purchase.

I should clarify, 7 speed refers to the number of cogs on the cassette, with a 3 ring front sprocket that will give 21 gears.

I found this vid that shows the sort of off roading I'm talking about, it's an advert for bike trailers so just ignore the trailer bit (for now )

YouTube - Aevon on the GTV 2009

and here YouTube - Off-road bicycle trip with the Aevon trailer

 

[eTim]

Just confirmed that the Alien kit will not support a disc brake on the front hub motor. I would have to change the brake to V or caliper which I'm a bit reluctant to do. So I would need to source the disc motor version. Does anyone know if a more powerful version of this motor will support a disc ?

 

[Herb]

Try this

Der Umbausatz

Herb

 

[nitrambo]

Or this

BMSBATTERY - The Art Of LiFePO4

then select Hub Motor category

 

[eTim]

Thanks for the links. This is getting interesting, I hadn't realised there was so much choice out there and so relatively cheap. I reckon a bespoke non UK legal kit consisting of powerful motor, large capacity battery, charger, controller, throttle, import charges and wheel building (LBS) for around £500 all in is possible. A UK legal kit would be a bit cheaper.

So next question, for a hub motor which wheel would take the least amount of knocks and provide less stress for the motor, given the Marin has full suspension? Which wheel would provide the better traction for hill climbing in off road conditions?

 

[NRG]

I would be a bit cautious about BMSbattery, some reports over on ES suggest they don't understand English that well and people have received the wrong parts. Also they are just a shop window / reseller for the main supplier Ecitypower.com. However, some have a good experience but its best to be fore warned...

I'd talk to Frank at Das Elektrorad von Frank Scheftlein: Komplette Pedelec- / Elektrofahrrad Umbausätze und Ersatzteile von Bafang, Puma (eZee), Tongxin u.a.

 

[piotrmacheta]

I have converted my Specialized Epic full sus bike to electric by putting an eZee hub on the front and have regularly gone out on the ridgway with it in all sorts of muddy stuff and used it in the snow earlier in the year. I found that the front loses traction very easily but the 2 wheel drive does help, particularly in getting you through a load of soft mud.

I've never tried rear drive but feel the 2WD is probably better overall as long as you're gentle on the throttle. I'd be interested to find out what you end up doing.

 

[Andrew harvey]

I can say that E-city power have given me reasonable service. They have a shop on E-bay.com.
Of the options they offer the best in my opinion for off road would be the SKXW for the front, this motor has side entry cables not shaft entry with a sensorless controller that should be more robust;
Or for the rear;
The Bafang BPM motor for power, they happily run at least 48v and can take more, or the 250w (small) Cute motor, this is an Ananda motor, if you don't need absolute power. The choice is between 8 speed on the Ananda and 6 maybe 7 at a push with the Bafang.
I'm using a SKXW currently with a new power controller, effectively a varible output cruise control.
I've tested this unit with different controllers, a 500w 35A, 350w 25A and now a dinky little 350w with a 15A current limit. The 500w controller came from E-city power and has developed erratic tendencies, but the makers have combined a sensored and sensorless controller in one, Maybe just a little to complicated. On the road I like the 15A limited controller, it has less torque in the high power setting but I normally climb hills at middle or low power, you lose little in assistance just speed. For of road a higher rated might be better.

Tim I think it was you who asked who builds Bionx here, I do I have a bike shop, ther is also a picture of one we built earlier, it's second hand now, the owner has gone manual again. It's just a Dawse XC base model with dual discs. I brought it home tonight the picture shows the start of the of road section of my route. I haven't been of road since the start of November;
That muds sticky doesn't half slow you down!
One thing I have found in the past off road particularly when the goings soft you use at lot more of your battery, as much as 30% more. I covered 10 miles coming home and used 4 out of 6 bars on the battery meter, it hasn't been charged for a few weeks so it was probably down anyway. So you should expect to get lower range in bad conditions.

 

[eTim]

I can say that E-city power have given me reasonable service. They have a shop on E-bay.com.
Of the options they offer the best in my opinion for off road would be the SKXW for the front, this motor has side entry cables not shaft entry with a sensorless controller that should be more robust;
Or for the rear;
The Bafang BPM motor for power, they happily run at least 48v and can take more, or the 250w (small) Cute motor, this is an Ananda motor, if you don't need absolute power. The choice is between 8 speed on the Ananda and 6 maybe 7 at a push with the Bafang.
I'm using a SKXW currently with a new power controller, effectively a varible output cruise control.
I've tested this unit with different controllers, a 500w 35A, 350w 25A and now a dinky little 350w with a 15A current limit. The 500w controller came from E-city power and has developed erratic tendencies, but the makers have combined a sensored and sensorless controller in one, Maybe just a little to complicated. On the road I like the 15A limited controller, it has less torque in the high power setting but I normally climb hills at middle or low power, you lose little in assistance just speed. For of road a higher rated might be better.

Tim I think it was you who asked who builds Bionx here, I do I have a bike shop, ther is also a picture of one we built earlier, it's second hand now, the owner has gone manual again. It's just a Dawse XC base model with dual discs. I brought it home tonight the picture shows the start of the of road section of my route. I haven't been of road since the start of November;
That muds sticky doesn't half slow you down!
One thing I have found in the past off road particularly when the goings soft you use at lot more of your battery, as much as 30% more. I covered 10 miles coming home and used 4 out of 6 bars on the battery meter, it hasn't been charged for a few weeks so it was probably down anyway. So you should expect to get lower range in bad conditions.

Andrew - how much would you charge for a 350w Bionx conversion?

 

[Stumpi]

Andrew - how much would you charge for a 350w Bionx conversion?

I'm interested in a price as well

 

[eddieo]

and me........

Andrew, in your 3 pics the first 2 showing controls they are not the BionX unit are they?

 

[eTim]

Some interesting news - Last week I had a test ride on a Bionx powered Trek (7.3) that my LBS is selling. I hadn't thought much about it until now and I've just called them to get some prices and talk about stripping the kit to fit to the Marin (I discovered that they have been fitting ebikes for 10 years now, why do they keep this quiet?).

It's the Bionx 250w with the rack mounted battery, the battery could be refitted to a seat mounted post quite easily or adapted for use in a rucsac, the controller doesn't have the throttle control (I'm not sure if this can be retrofitted), the motor will also need a 9 speed freewheel to match the Marin, at the moment he can supply the Trek to me next day for £1500. I'm not 100% sure about the battery, I'm sure it is the 36v 10Ah version (there is the possibility that it's the 24v version), but I need to confirm this with them. The base bike is woth £3-400 new so that could be easily sold for £200 on the bay.

I'm comparing the LBS cost with the cost of importing the 250w kit from the US which works out around £1500 including shipping, VAT and duties and will take around 10 days.

I've asked him for more discount and volume discount if any of you guys are interested. I'll also ask him about the warranty should the bike be stripped.

It's looking promising - Wait out...

 

[eddieo]

If they can get the kit with rack battery why not the in frame version. far more stylish IMO.

what was the 250 watt trek bike like? I have the brochure here from my LBS who has Giant e bikes and thinking of stocking Trek e as well

for hill climbing and off road I would think the 350 watt would be a lot better

 

[eTim]

If they can get the kit with rack battery why not the in frame version. far more stylish IMO.

what was the 250 watt trek bike like? I have the brochure here from my LBS who has Giant e bikes and thinking of stocking Trek e as well

for hill climbing and off road I would think the 350 watt would be a lot better

I only did a short ride, but it felt really good, the torque system really worked with my pedalling and I got up to max speed no problems.

The LBS read the battery spec out of the manual at 40v 6.5ah, 44 cells, not sure how this translates on the road. A thread in another forum mentioned this could be the 350w motor branded as their 250w HT motor. The derestrict codes are available apparently. I think I will need another test ride this weekend and take the Marin along to make some judgements.

BTW the price is down to £1375 with 10+% discounts on multiple orders, so it's getting cheaper!