Which are you?

After reading the SMIDSY related article

 

Eye-tracking research reveals drivers fail to spot cyclists | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

 

I wondered what type of cyclist are you when it come to visibilty?

 

This?

[ATTACH]5531.vB[/ATTACH]

 

or this

[ATTACH]5532.vB[/ATTACH]

 

I am of the hi viz variety.

 

I do get annoyed when I see (or don't see more to the point) joggers, walkers or cyclists who think it's 'cool' to wear black or dark clothing when using the road.

 

at times in the past I have been so adamant about being seen that at night, I have had lights fixed on my bike that direct light onto me from the handlebars at the front and from the rear rack at the back. Together with my hi viz full sleeved bright green reflective jacket it could be 'noticed' for miles, even before a cars headlights picked me out.

 

I don't cycle much at night now so don't have to do that but I would if I did.

After reading the SMIDSY related article

 

Eye-tracking research reveals drivers fail to spot cyclists | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

 

I wondered what type of cyclist are you when it come to visibilty?

 

This?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5531[/ATTACH]

 

or this

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5532[/ATTACH]

 

I am of the hi viz variety.

 

I do get annoyed when I see (or don't see more to the point) joggers, walkers or cyclists who think it's 'cool' to wear black or dark clothing when using the road.

 

at times in the past I have been so adamant about being seen that at night, I have had lights fixed on my bike that direct light onto me from the handlebars at the front and from the rear rack at the back. Together with my hi viz full sleeved bright green reflective jacket it could be 'noticed' for miles, even before a cars headlights picked me out.

 

I don't cycle much at night now so don't have to do that but I would if I did.

 

Neither - I wear enough reflective elements to catch a car's headlights, reflectaspokes on my wheels and use very good quality lights. That'll have to do.

 

Expecting all cyclists wear a 'fruity uniform' of banana yellow or bright orange if they're out in public is taking things too far. This is just as good if not better solution to passively relying on motorists to respond to your best intentions and hopes :

 

DISC HORN 36V HIGH TONE 420Hz DURITE 0-642-36 | eBay

 

From what I've seen of Britain's roads, wearing hi-viz clothing isn't going to get them to "see" what they subconsciously don't want to have on the road in the first place - and that is more of the problem. But whatever gives people peace of mind is fine.

Edited April 25, 201312 yr by 103Alex1

When I was 18 (Many many years ago!) I did a SMIDSY, I turned right against an oncoming cyclist who I did not either see or notice.

I was shocked. Fortunately he was not injured but I had to pay for another front wheel for his bike.

Ever since that incident, I have paid particular attention to bikes and motor cycles and I wonder if the driving instructors and testers could pay more attention to the problem. Many driving tests will not encounter bikes so the examinee will not be tested on this point.

You can be certain that if a number of hopefuls fail their test simply for not being bike aware, things will improve.

Having said all that, I think the problem is psychological at its roots. Perhaps bright colours will not work and we need to use nature's warning signs.

Large 'Eyes', yellow and black wasp like stripes, blood red etc.

I fall some where in between as im not convinced all Hi-vis actually improves visabilty and potentially gives a false sense of "Im so hi-vis that cant fail to see me attitude".

 

eg a High Vis bib waist cost open at the front is next to useless.

 

However on my motorcysle I do wear a totally white helmet as it seem to stand out far more than any other colour (more so than even a flo/hi vis one)

 

Safest thing to do is to learn the police motorcyclist hand book and its observation / defensive riding methods most of which just as easily apply to cycling. Far more likly to save your life then any item of clothing.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Handbook-Motorcycling/dp/011341143X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1366898417&sr=1-1&keywords=police+motorcycle+roadcraft#_

I've only ever used ordinary street clothes when cycling and in 67 years of it have never been in a collision with another vehicle or pedestrian. I only see limited evidence of high-viz in the main cycling countries where they commonly ride in normal street clothing.

 

Maybe attitude has something to do with my apparent immunity, I think it's my responsibility not to get into collision situations. If other road users take care to avoid me, well that's a bonus, but I don't depend on them for that.

When I wear my hi-viz in the daylight, it's like an invisibility cloak, except that thoose that do see it tend to be very cautious. Maybe they think I'm a policeman or something.

 

At night-time, it's so reflective, even with street-lighting, that it'll wake up the doziest of dunderheads. See how much brighter it is than the high intensity rear llights:

 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/lights/jacket.jpg

Dave's post above reminds me to add to my preceding post that I don't cycle after dark. Then hi-viz would obviously be a big benefit and fairer to drivers.

Personally I find the high viz to ubiquitous to be noticed - you are expected , you blend in

 

From he front and back it's all about lights - get good, bright ones

 

From the side is the main danger IMHO

 

I place electroluminescent wire on rims of both wheels. This is bright and , above all, very very unusual

 

Unusual is more effective than bright. At least that's what I reckon

 

And i've been knocked off 3 times on my life .....all in daylight !

I don't wear hi viz, although the jacket I use for cycling is bright green (but bot hi viz).

 

I do have bloody bright lights though!

I did a CBT earlier. Completed it without crashing or going down, left the test centre on my ebike and within 10 minutes I was nearly killed near home by a people carrier. There was a traffic jam on the other side of the road, and this car just pulled out from a side road (the one on the right just past the crossing) extremely rapidly, and turned right without looking obviously, going wide and forced me into the kerb. A car driver in the traffic and a biker behind saw it and they looked horrified. If I didn't have this bad habit of riding close to the kerb I would have certainly been knocked down. If I had reached that point a second earlier I would have been hit from the side.

 

The idiot driving didn't even notice. I managed to catch up with the **** when he got stuck in traffic,and I tapped on his nearside window. The look on his face was as if he had no idea what had happened and he was clearly completely oblivious. I decided to give the finger and made a quick getaway. I'm now wondering if any sort of bikes are worth the risk and if it would be wise to upgrade to a scooter.. Great form of transport, shame about the people you have to share the roads with. It seems to me that no matter what lights or reflective stuff you have, these clowns are blind and won't see you anyway.

Edited April 25, 201312 yr by Synthman

The main problem as I see it (no pun intended!) ,is that road users do not go through a hierarchy of use, back in the days folk hardly had the money or use of motorised vehicles, so you progressed from cycle ,motor cycle , and so on , you may have appreciated the vulnerabilities of other road users ,so took more care, .

 

Now, a 17 yr old can pass their driving test, go out and get a high powered car then hoon around the streets, as long as they can afford it, and many do!

 

The natural law of survival has been compromised.

 

also play stations do not help, they sanitize the dangers of reckless driving.

For me it's not so much the being seen, it's the knowing you've been seen. I always assume that I haven't been seen until I make eye contact or see other signs that a driver is aware of me.

I'm now wondering if any sort of bikes are worth the risk and if it would be wise to upgrade to a scooter..

 

A scooter is probably worse, the T-bone accident is the most common of all motorcycle accidents and accounts for a very high proportion of the circa 40 m/c deaths each year. At least on a bicycle your lower speed makes most accidents survivable.

The main problem as I see it (no pun intended!) ,is that road users do not go through a hierarchy of use, back in the days folk hardly had the money or use of motorised vehicles, so you progressed from cycle ,motor cycle , and so on , you may have appreciated the vulnerabilities of other road users ,so took more care, .

 

Now, a 17 yr old can pass their driving test, go out and get a high powered car then hoon around the streets, as long as they can afford it, and many do!

 

The natural law of survival has been compromised.

 

also play stations do not help, they sanitize the dangers of reckless driving.

 

Kids even miss out on the walk to school these days, with Mum saying it's too dangerous for them to walk, so they go in the Mum Taxi. and it's all those Mum taxi's that are actually the danger to kids walking to school.

To survive on a motorbike you learn not to depend on the good sense or reaction of others. You should ride as if you’re invisible, observing and anticipating at all times.

 

I’d only recommend dressing up in hi-vis to those cyclists who are not that way inclined; who, by the way, should never, ever, be allowed on a scooter or a motorbike however they dress.

At the moment I do not cycle in the dark, so wear bright red. I am thinking of getting hi viz, and would definitely wear this in the dark as well as putting plenty of lights on the bike. I should imagine that whatever we do to make ourselves visible in the dark, accidents are always going to happen.

After reading the SMIDSY related article

 

Eye-tracking research reveals drivers fail to spot cyclists | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

 

I wondered what type of cyclist are you when it come to visibilty?

 

This?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5531[/ATTACH]

 

or this

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5532[/ATTACH]

 

I am of the hi viz variety.

 

I do get annoyed when I see (or don't see more to the point) joggers, walkers or cyclists who think it's 'cool' to wear black or dark clothing when using the road.

 

at times in the past I have been so adamant about being seen that at night, I have had lights fixed on my bike that direct light onto me from the handlebars at the front and from the rear rack at the back. Together with my hi viz full sleeved bright green reflective jacket it could be 'noticed' for miles, even before a cars headlights picked me out.

 

I don't cycle much at night now so don't have to do that but I would if I did.

 

 

I get the impression that those who dress for a speedy commute will travel as fast as they can. Given the recent spate of London cycling deaths and other close shaves, is it time to consider making it a requirement to wear Hi-viz clothing during rush times on the Boris cycling highway and other busy and risky routes in London?

To survive on a motorbike you learn not to depend on the good sense or reaction of others. You should ride as if you’re invisible, observing and anticipating at all times.

 

This is true, when they say 'sorry I didn't see you' it often means 'sorry I didn't look'

I get the impression that those who dress for a speedy commute will travel as fast as they can. Given the recent spate of London cycling deaths and other close shaves, is it time to consider making it a requirement to wear Hi-viz clothing during rush times on the Boris cycling highway and other busy and risky routes in London?

 

There are good reasons why not. Firstly many who are getting killed or seriously injured are wearing multi-colours and/or hi-viz plus coloured sporty cycle helmets which obviously didn't help them.

 

Second is that such cycle wear isn't possible for the hire bikes which are picked up for short journeys by people in street clothing.

 

Third is that in daytime even all-black stands out better than multi-colours in a multi-colour background city.

Cold wet winter nights, I choose a high viz jacket with integral rear led light.

 

Waterproof, comfortable and warm. Not sure if it assists in being more visible but I like it.

After years of cycles and or motorbikes most people develop a sixth sense, mine is more important than any jacket.

 

Whilst I can never afford to be complacent and anyone become a statistic, it is this sense that helps me most.

After years of cycles and or motorbikes most people develop a sixth sense, mine is more important than any jacket.

 

Whilst I can never afford to be complacent and anyone become a statistic, it is this sense that helps me most.

 

Perfectly put.

 

Ultimately the best safety is experience and intelligence combined into action.

With motorcyclists...... they say there are old riders, bold riders, but no old bold riders.

This could easily apply to cyclists as well.

The main problem as I see it (no pun intended!) ,is that road users do not go through a hierarchy of use, back in the days folk hardly had the money or use of motorised vehicles, so you progressed from cycle ,motor cycle , and so on , you may have appreciated the vulnerabilities of other road users ,so took more care, .

 

Now, a 17 yr old can pass their driving test, go out and get a high powered car then hoon around the streets, as long as they can afford it, and many do!

 

The natural law of survival has been compromised.

 

also play stations do not help, they sanitize the dangers of reckless driving.

 

Exactly - how many youngsters these days have grown up using 2 wheelers of any type, particularly in winter? The car drivers that slow down to a sensible speed in icy conditions are those who have ridden motor bikes in winter and have a healthy respect for what might happen - ie skid and fall off. Drivers that don't, seem to think their tyres have magical properties that render them impervious to ice!

This is true, when they say 'sorry I didn't see you' it often means 'sorry I didn't look'

 

I agree totally with what you say, but I make sure that I am very visible, high vis, good 200 lum front lights, same at the rear 2 flashing + the built in lights. I do this as my commute in the winter is down very fast unlit A roads and B roads. I have not even had a close call as cars and lorries can see me for miles, I also ride a cycle the way I rode bikes, treat every car, HGV or coach driver as a blind idiot. On the other hand some cyclists do ask for trouble, I drove HGV's for 20 years and the amount of cyclists that would take a chance and sneak up the left hand side at lights, even if I was indicating was frightening. I feel we all need to take responsibility for our own actions, I hear cyclists slag off drivers and drivers slag off cyclists, why? we all need to share the roads. The old chestnut we don't pay road tax does not cut the mustard any more as there are a growing number of low emission cars on the road that pay 0 road tax.

My 10 pence worth

I cycle for pleasure only these days, weather permitting I'll try to get 2 or more 20mile rides in a week in my hi-vis.

There's one chap I see regularly (or not lol) going the other way on country roads with overhanging trees, he chooses to ride a mat black racer with black Lycra and yes you've guest it a black hat. Now even in strong sunlight, when he's under the trees you can't tell him from the shadows. I've even seen him shaking his fist at a car driver who obviously only just saw him and at the last minuet swerved just missing him.

 

There's another chap that chooses dark clothing, no lights and commutes to work along some fast unlit urban roads, ignoring the cycle paths next to the road. I've just missed him twice this month at 5.30am now I'm extra carful in that area.

On the same road I see mr hi-vis reflective well in advance on the cycle path.

 

Darwin called it natural selection, only the strong (sensible) survive.

Who out of the above riders will get squashed and who's fault will it be.

I'm not normally vindictive but if you don't even try to be seen, you won't just be cool you'll be cold (stone cold)

Edited November 19, 201312 yr by Gringo