Wheel keeps falling off!

[Drake-601]

Don't quite know what todays posts are on about. The pictures clearly show an axle (not axis) that has rotated and pulled the wheel out of the dropouts. The guy in the shop didn't send it out like that. He did not understand how the wheel should be fitted i.e. with torque washers or arms and just went for the more tightnes method. He has probably damaged the wiring, wheel nuts, dropouts and possibly the axle. This is precisely why a lot of bike shops won't touch ebikes.

I think that is the issue, Chris. I've since spoken to someone who suggested similar; that the fella didn't fit the axel properly and I do recall that he struggled like mad re-fitting the wheel after he installed a new mag disk for me a few months back. Still waiting for an e-mail response from http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/ and intend to phone them if they don't respond this morning. Appreciate your post...

 

[mike killay]

I think that is the issue, Chris. I've since spoken to someone who suggested similar; that the fella didn't fit the axel properly and I do recall that he struggled like mad re-fitting the wheel after he installed a new mag disk for me a few months back. Still waiting for an e-mail response from http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/ and intend to phone them if they don't respond this morning. Appreciate your post...

Can you please clarify what you mean by 'Mag Disc'
Do you mean the disc of magnets fitted to the pedal shaft that operates the power assistance system?

 

[Drake-601]

Can you please clarify what you mean by 'Mag Disc'
Do you mean the disc of magnets fitted to the pedal shaft that operates the power assistance system?

Hi Mike. Yes, that's exactly it. When I was having a power loss issue a while back, Woosh and other posters told me that this was likely the issue, which it was! They referred to this part as a Mag (Magnetic) Disk and, so, that's how I now too refer to this part. It does seem to have caused some confusion on here when referring to it with my current problem.

So, rightly or wrongly, my local bike fella took the whole rear wheel off in order to remove the old Mag Disk & sensor block and replace the new one; then struggling like crazy to put the wheel back on "correctly"...or not as it now seems. It ran absolutely fine for almost 2 months before I started getting the issue (3 times in a week) of the wheel then detaching.

I've just spoken to http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/index.aspx and I'm taking it up tomorrow to leave it with him. He said, from my description, that he can't understand the need for torque washers and / or arms as this is not necessary on most e-bikes, which seems to conflict with a lot of advice on here. However, he said it could be that the axel wasn't replaced properly but without looking at it in detail he can't diagnose, of course. Hopefully he can identify the reason for my wheel detaching so often and, if there's damage to the motor wire and any other parts, can fix it. It's then a case of never taking my bike to my local fella...certainly not for anything to do with having to remove the rear wheel!

I used to use Halfords but they often rolled their eyes whenever they had to service a part that involved the removal of the rear wheel. I only stopped using them when they also, sometimes, used to take ages to book me in becuase of-being busy / seemingly short staffed and, so, I thought I'd try this guy who is much closer to me. In future - and because I don't appear to have anyone near me who will touch e-bikes (even Cycle Republic who also service bikes bought from them - I'll take it to Halfords for now if there's a need to remove the rear wheel.

Sadly I don't have the skills / expereicne / tools to do this myself and perhaps I need to look into gaining all of those now...

 

[Nealh]

I have to say that sadly Drake has ventured in the unknown in to where to get his bike repaired by someone with little knowledge of ebike repairs in general.
A pas/magnet disc never needs the requirement of removing a rear wheel as only the cranks/ drive train need removing to replace said item.

E- bike are not a lot different from normal pedal bikes, they have two wheels , brakes, saddle and handle bars it is just the knowledge of electrics and fitting of said wheels/components that let them down. Shops like these turn the work down instead of thinking it's only a bike with motor fitted as mostly the work is quite simple if you know what is required.

 

[Nealh]

Drake most bikes don't need torque washers or arms, but those bike with hubs motors front or rear benefit from the additional securing to prevent just the issue you have experienced.
Some hubs are more powerful then others.

 

[Nealh]

This strikes me as a great opportunity for Pedelecs to may launch a scheme of "local heroes for e-bikes"

In the same way people buy and sell here, if we had a special thread where people could submit requests for assistance along with the first part of their post code, they could then arrange through PM get some help. 4

Just thinking out loud.

I have been asked by a retailer to fit the odd kit to a bike for customers, generally though I'm not interested in going down that route or my time is needed elsewhere.
Though locally I'm more then willing to offer advice or practical help and on here of course.
More often then not I need to see the issue as long range fault/issue finding can become blurred with wrong in exact info supplied.

I have only a small space available in my garage to work so generally not practical for more then just doing maintenance of my little fleet of bikes, though am open to someone dropping a bike off for a few days for me to take a look.

 

[KirstinS]

I've helped fit kits and cheapo Chinese hub bikes and run a very minor sideline in fixing kits that No one else will look at.

I want to keep bikes on the road and not the scrap heap. I charge but little. Usually after less than 40 quid my customers either have a fixed bike or they know what the issue is and decided not to repair (not cost effective )




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[Ajax]

Hi Ajax.

No, it was a new mag disk that he had to fit after I bought it for him (old one had an nick in the wire of the sensor that sits next to the mag disk) but he did then struggle like mad getting the rear wheel back on a few months ago and I think that's where my recent problems began and surfaced; probably not fitting the axle properly in some way.

Oh i see now. In that case there should have been no need to remove the rear wheel. The PAS is usually fitted behind the chainring. That said your bike may have been the exception (kind of like my stuck bottom bracket .

 

[mike killay]

I've just spoken to http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/index.aspx and I'm taking it up tomorrow to leave it with him. He said, from my description, that he can't understand the need for torque washers and / or arms as this is not necessary on most e-bikes,...

Quite a bold statement to make. Quite what does he think will stop the axle from rotating?
Be careful, my opinion is that
1 Your basic problem is that torque washers were not fitted or refitted after the wheel was removed.
2 Just what sort of bike mechanic has a problem refitting a rear wheel? Did he remove the brake calliper before trying?

 

[Ajax]

Quite a bold statement to make. Quite what does he think will stop the axle from rotating?
Be careful, my opinion is that
1 Your basic problem is that torque washers were not fitted or refitted after the wheel was removed.
2 Just what sort of bike mechanic has a problem refitting a rear wheel? Did he remove the brake calliper before trying?

Torque washers are a solution for the worst case. The worst case is where the axle is able to rotate in the dropouts. In most cases the squared sides of the axle will be snug fit for the dropouts.

In this case the person who 'fitted' the rear wheel didn't know to rotate the rear axle so that it was properly secure in the dropouts. Also if he didn't know how to fit the rear axle, then its fair to say the torque washer would have been of no use, since to work, those also need to fit snug in the dropouts.

Your second question would be the most relavant here. there's an outside chance that the brakes might have been the reason why the axle wasn't properly fitted into the dropouts. Again the torque washers would not have been relavant in that case since they also would not have lined up with the dropouts..

 

[chris_n]

Torque washers are a solution for the worst case. The worst case is where the axle is able to rotate in the dropouts. In most cases the squared sides of the axle will be snug fit for the dropouts.

In this case the person who 'fitted' the rear wheel didn't know to rotate the rear axle so that it was properly secure in the dropouts. Also if he didn't know how to fit the rear axle, then its fair to say the torque washer would have been of no use, since to work, those also need to fit snug in the dropouts.

Your second question would be the most relavant here. there's an outside chance that the brakes might have been the reason why the axle wasn't properly fitted into the dropouts. Again the torque washers would not have been relavant in that case since they also would not have lined up with the dropouts..

When are you going to realise the pictures are showing the wheel AFTER it has rotated in (out of) the dropouts and stop with the irrelevant coments about the brakes.
Torque washers are not a solution for the worst case, they merely give the axle flats someting to locate on that doesn't have an open end like the dropout does and so provide a secondary location. Torque arms and / or closed dropouts, or anti rotation arms are the answer to the worst cases.

 

[mike killay]

When are you going to realise the pictures are showing the wheel AFTER it has rotated in (out of) the dropouts and stop with the irrelevant coments about the brakes.
Torque washers are not a solution for the worst case, they merely give the axle flats someting to locate on that doesn't have an open end like the dropout does and so provide a secondary location. Torque arms and / or closed dropouts, or anti rotation arms are the answer to the worst cases.

My comments about the brakes were made because the 'mechanic' was apparently struggling to refit the wheel.

I considered that he may not have realised the problems of just sliding a wheel in when disc brakes are fitted.
Equally, he may not have realised the need to rotate the axle so that the flats were aligned with the drop outs.

 

[chris_n]

My comments about the brakes were made because the 'mechanic' was apparently struggling to refit the wheel.

I considered that he may not have realised the problems of just sliding a wheel in when disc brakes are fitted.
Equally, he may not have realised the need to rotate the axle so that the flats were aligned with the drop outs.

I'm not disagreeing with your post, your point 1 is probably the cause.

 

[Ajax]

When are you going to realise the pictures are showing the wheel AFTER it has rotated in (out of) the dropouts and stop with the irrelevant coments about the brakes.
Torque washers are not a solution for the worst case, they merely give the axle flats someting to locate on that doesn't have an open end like the dropout does and so provide a secondary location. Torque arms and / or closed dropouts, or anti rotation arms are the answer to the worst cases.

Whatever dude. I suggest you read the replies from the original poster.

 

[chris_n]

Whatever dude. I suggest you read the replies from the original poster.

I have and it is absolutely clear that the pictures are after he has ridden it even if only for 10 meters. The fault is NOTHING to do with brakes, if you can fit an axle without rotating it to the correct position the dropouts are already shot.

 

[Ajax]

I have and it is absolutely clear that the pictures are after he has ridden it even if only for 10 meters. The fault is NOTHING to do with brakes, if you can fit an axle without rotating it to the correct position the dropouts are already shot.

And 'if' the the axel isn't sitting properly in the drop outs because: a/ the person hadn't rotated the axel to slid in, and b/ the disc isn't seated in the brakes?

The original poster says the way we see the picture, is the way the bike left bike shop. In otherwords the wheel was held on solely by the washers. And yeah, don't ask me how that's possible.

If that's the case the the torque washer would have made no difference.

 

[chris_n]

And 'if' the the axel isn't sitting properly in the drop outs because: a/ the person hadn't rotated the axel to slid in, and b/ the disc isn't seated in the brakes?

The original poster says the way we see the picture, is the way the bike left bike shop. In otherwords the wheel was held on solely by the washers. And yeah, don't ask me how that's possible.

If that's the case the the torque washer would have made no difference.

No he didn't he said it was like that after 10 meters, i.e. just enough time for the motor to kick in and spin out of the dropouts!

 

[Drake-601]

What Nealh says is so true, bike sales in this country are increasing every year and this brings out the quick buck/no idea repair merchants jumping on the bandwagon.

A quick google search brings up this place...
http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/
... give them a ring.

Hi JP.

I just wanted to thank you very much for finding this e-bike shop in Bolton and sending me their link. It's about a 30 minute drive from where I live and I left the bike with them for 2 weeks; 1 week while I was away.

He managed to salvage / fix the damaged wire caused by the weel twist / drop-off and has put a good, rubber-seal cap over it / rear bolt and has attached torque washers too. In addition and by request, he replaced the battery holder that was cracked, put 2 new brake pads on and gave it a general MOT.

All is working well and you-sending me that link has helped a great deal in resolving the issue. It's a really good shop and he certainly knows what he's doing / has a very good engineering workshop.

Very, very much appreciated JP (and to all who commented / helped).