'whaTTfornow' new? Electric bike

[MikelBikel]

the whaTTfornow electric bike features twin transmission for on-demand torque

www.designboom.com

This could be more useful as a mid drive conversion kit, rather than a 'new' bike, or am I missing something?

Mid motor powers a jumbo belt wheel, apparently mounting under the brake disc, big enough to clear the caliper.
Quotes "160Nm", would the belt & spindly belt wheel take that kind of torque, or pretzel it?

Another unique, proprietary battery/seattube for no reason.

 

[Woosh]

nice!

 

[vfr400]

the whaTTfornow electric bike features twin transmission for on-demand torque

www.designboom.com

This could be more useful as a mid drive conversion kit, rather than a 'new' bike, or am I missing something?

Mid motor powers a jumbo belt wheel, apparently mounting under the brake disc, big enough to clear the caliper.
Quotes "160Nm", would the belt & spindly belt wheel take that kind of torque, or pretzel it?

Another unique, proprietary battery/seattube for no reason.

It's the same sort of arangement as Neal's Swizzbee. It has a lot of advantages over a conventional crank-motor, as the power doesn't go through the chain and gears. The advantages over a hub-motor are more centralised mass and less unsprung mass in the wheel, so better handling and suspension.

Many high-powered motorbikes use belt drives that go for 100,000 miles:

Why does Harley Davidson use a belt drive?

Belt drives have been used because the early days of motorbikes. But as the engine outputs started rising, manufacturers start relocating in the direction of chain and also sometimes, shaft drives.…

automotivemacedonia.wordpress.com

 

[Deleted member 33385]

the whaTTfornow electric bike features twin transmission for on-demand torque

www.designboom.com

This could be more useful as a mid drive conversion kit, rather than a 'new' bike, or am I missing something?

Mid motor powers a jumbo belt wheel, apparently mounting under the brake disc, big enough to clear the caliper.
Quotes "160Nm", would the belt & spindly belt wheel take that kind of torque, or pretzel it?

Another unique, proprietary battery/seattube for no reason.

Must say... I do like the idea of a kit version.

 

[Nealh]

The rear wheel hub must use a diff hub of some sort, my Swizzbee uses the now defunct Sram dual hub 3 x 9.

 

[Raboa]

Somebody more clever than me will probably work out his to use a BBS02 to make this work. Keep standard crank set up, stick the crank drive in the frame upside down, replace the toothed chainring with a belt chainring,, make a wide belt holder (as in picture, attach belt holder (washing machine belt drive parts?) to brake disk bolt holes, 3d plastic / metal printers would be handy.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

...the good news is, it's not patentable - belt drives are all over the freaking place, so if someone created a reliable and robust kit using something like a BBSXXX plus mass produced parts (maybe even existing parts), it could be sold without patent royalty fees. I'd buy one!

 

[vfr400]

Somebody more clever than me will probably work out his to use a BBS02 to make this work. Keep standard crank set up, stick the crank drive in the frame upside down, replace the toothed chainring with a belt chainring,, make a wide belt holder (as in picture, attach belt holder (washing machine belt drive parts?) to brake disk bolt holes, 3d plastic / metal printers would be handy.

Sorry, you need to think about that one! Wouldn't just a motor be better? There are several ebike systems that already do it. If you want to make your own, use a hub-motor with a belt drive.

 

[Raboa]

Would this work.
Buy a BBS02 chainring adapter and belt chainring as below.

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https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/components-c9/chainrings-sprockets-c69/gates-centre-track-belt-drive-chainring-p17557or the back, buy a 130mm wide hub, make an adapter to fit the above adapter and belt chainring to the back hub disk bolt holes. This would push the disk brake rotor out, put washers in-between the hub and frame to fit into a 135mn rear frame spacing. The disk brake rotor might have to have washers on the bolts to align properly on a mtb disk brake frame / calipers.
The BBS02 drive side would be on the non drive crank side, the only trouble using the linked chainring is it might be too big and hit legs.
The motor might have to be raised up from the BB shell nstead of testing on the frame BB internal triangle.
Mad idea but sometimes they are the best.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

The BBS02 drive side would be on the non drive crank side, the only trouble using the linked chainring is it might be too big and hit legs.

...a thin hub motor might do?

 

[Nealh]

The swizzbee doesn't use a hub motor, the drive is a brushed motor of about 90mm with with a single side axle/drive shaft.
One could likely try and fabricate a drive using a front 100mm hub, the issue will be the rear hub unit. It will need to be a dual drive type unit.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

The swizzbee doesn't use a hub motor, the drive is a brushed motor of about 90mm with with a single side axle/drive shaft.
One could likely try and fabricate a drive using a front 100mm hub, the issue will be the rear hub unit. It will need to be a dual drive type unit.

The Swizzbee certainly looks an interesting bike:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/a-rare-piece-of-history-swizzbee.25683/

 

[Raboa]

What about this?
Use a rear hub motor, on the drive side add a single speed cog, on the non drive side add a belt drive using adapter / disk bolts.
Use a crank with a single chainring, run the chain over the chainring and the motor drive side cog.
Connect motor using brackets, one end would be wide to slide over a bottom bracket inner exterior diameter each side, the other end would have a smaller hole for the axle to go through, the bottom bracket locking goes over the bracket tightening them in place.
If you need to raise the motor then make a sloping bracket (slopes highest point against the seat tube). The bracket would be attached with the bottle cage bolts.
I think too much for my own good sometimes.

 

[vfr400]

What about this?
Use a rear hub motor, on the drive side add a single speed cog, on the non drive side add a belt drive using adapter / disk bolts.
Use a crank with a double chainring, use inner chainring to connect to motor hub drive side using a chain.
Connect motor using brackets, one end would be wide to slide over a bracket each side, the other end would have a smaller hole for the axle to go through, the bottom bracket locking goes over the bracket tightening them in place.
If you need to raise the motor then make a sloping bracket (slopes highest point against the seat tube). The bracket would be attached with the bottle cage bolts.
I think too much for my own good sometimes.

Before crank-drive kits were available, I made my own. Instead of running the drive to the left crank, I could have run it to the rear hub left side with an Izip adapter. That's quite a lot of complication to get a handling a tiny bit improved. I cut down a steel hub to get the thread for the freewheel, all bolted to the disc side of the front motor. A rear motor would be too wide and turns the wrong way.




BTW, the main idea of that conversion was to test whether the same motor would be more efficient driving the crank and using the gears to keep it spinning at optimum speed. There was no measurable difference. That dispelled the myth that crank-drives are more efficient per se. I also did some tests with other arrangements that gave the same result.

 

[vfr400]

I forgot about this one. tom stanton does a lot of interesting stuff - worth folling if you're interested in that sort of thing:

As an aside, after watching that , google took me to this. can anyone see the glaring error in his build:

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I'm shocked that he managed to get it working upside down. It probably won't be working long... he could have changed where the oil hits the inside of the cylinder for a longer motor life I suppose. Bit hard to see.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Before crank-drive kits were available, I made my own. Instead of running the drive to the left crank, I could have run it to the rear hub left side with an Izip adapter. That's quite a lot of complication to get a handling a tiny bit improved. I cut down a steel hub to get the thread for the freewheel, all bolted to the disc side of the front motor. A rear motor would be too wide and turns the wrong way.
View attachment 40897

View attachment 40898

BTW, the main idea of that conversion was to test whether the same motor would be more efficient driving the crank and using the gears to keep it spinning at optimum speed. There was no measurable difference. That dispelled the myth that crank-drives are more efficient per se. I also did some tests with other arrangements that gave the same result.

That's a great experiment! Have you still got all the parts? Almost a friction drive kit, that is, bar a few bits?

 

[Deleted member 33385]

tom stanton does a lot of interesting stuff

He certainly does! Thanks for that, I've bookmarked his channel.

 

[vfr400]

That's a great experiment! Have you still got all the parts?

Yes. I'm not sure why. I've since put a GNG motor in that bike with a Nuvinci rear hub, which I also used for some experiments. I'm moving shortly, so most of my ebike stuff is going to have to go. I have enough stuff to literally fill an average garage.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I'm moving shortly, so most of my ebike stuff is going to have to go. I have enough stuff to literally fill an average garage.

DON'T THROW ANYTHING AWAY! I've always regretted discarding anything I've worked on. Hindsight is 20/20.